GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I think the criticisms of the Knicks are fair. Both Hardaway Jr. and Baker were overpays. Baker should not of been given a player option, which has no benefit to the team whatsoever. The Hardaway Jr contract has top 10 worst contract in the NBA potential. A very small sample size to risk the length of his contract. My problem with the Hardaway Jr. contract is that at best we get what we paid for, the chances of him out producing that deal is very slim which begs the question what is the point? I just don't like the direction of the franchise. Hardaway Jr. isnt talented enough to keeep Porzingis from leaving in FA and he is good enough to cost the Knicks ping pong balls. I think the Knicks could of rebuilt the franchise this offeason by trading Porzingis, moving Melo for Anderson and picks, and taking on Carroll. That could of left the Knicks with 7 or 8 first round draft picks over 4 drafts. Yes in the short term we would be set back but we would of had a legitimate shot at a championship in the future if things broke our way. Now we will be a middling team for the next decade

Get all those draft picks for Porzingis, and hope we draft someone as good as.....Porzingis. Knicks have 2 years to make their case to keep KP. From what KP has said, the regime change (some of it) has calmed things down a great deal, even he didn't come out and say it directly. Im looking forward to seeing Porzingis apply what he learned over the summer.

Jmpasq wrote:I think the criticisms of the Knicks are fair. Both Hardaway Jr. and Baker were overpays. Baker should not of been given a player option, which has no benefit to the team whatsoever. The Hardaway Jr contract has top 10 worst contract in the NBA potential. A very small sample size to risk the length of his contract. My problem with the Hardaway Jr. contract is that at best we get what we paid for, the chances of him out producing that deal is very slim which begs the question what is the point? I just don't like the direction of the franchise. Hardaway Jr. isnt talented enough to keeep Porzingis from leaving in FA and he is good enough to cost the Knicks ping pong balls. I think the Knicks could of rebuilt the franchise this offeason by trading Porzingis, moving Melo for Anderson and picks, and taking on Carroll. That could of left the Knicks with 7 or 8 first round draft picks over 4 drafts. Yes in the short term we would be set back but we would of had a legitimate shot at a championship in the future if things broke our way. Now we will be a middling team for the next decade

Baker is culture and continuity move. The coaches really like him and want him back. The Knicks expressed that in their offer. Perhaps they could have pushed a lesser amount. Perhaps they were worried about team like Detroit who just gave Langston Galloway $7mm for 3 years swooping in an taking a shot at a young guard committed to playing defense. There is most definitely a market for guys like Ron Baker, albeit a niche one. What did bringing back Ron Baker keep us from accomplishing?

Knicks have pledged to build around a young core of guys who can develop together with a focus on defense. They brought back Baker and brought in THjr, Dotson and Ntilikina. To me that looks like solid execution on that plan. Considering what they had to work with a B.

reub wrote:We can't go into the season with all of Frank, Baker, Dotson, Timmay and Lee on our team, can we? It seems a little redundant.

redundant like a fox....

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

reub wrote:We can't go into the season with all of Frank, Baker, Dotson, Timmay and Lee on our team, can we? It seems a little redundant.

I think the Knicks will try to move Lee. I really liked Dotson in summer league play. I hope he gets a shot at getting minutes.

They should move Lee, but I don't think he will be that easy to trade. I would like to move him for a draft pick even 2nd rounders. What the hell is going on with the Knicks 2nd round picks, do they even have 2nd round picks the next 4 years?

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I think the criticisms of the Knicks are fair. Both Hardaway Jr. and Baker were overpays. Baker should not of been given a player option, which has no benefit to the team whatsoever. The Hardaway Jr contract has top 10 worst contract in the NBA potential. A very small sample size to risk the length of his contract. My problem with the Hardaway Jr. contract is that at best we get what we paid for, the chances of him out producing that deal is very slim which begs the question what is the point? I just don't like the direction of the franchise. Hardaway Jr. isnt talented enough to keeep Porzingis from leaving in FA and he is good enough to cost the Knicks ping pong balls. I think the Knicks could of rebuilt the franchise this offeason by trading Porzingis, moving Melo for Anderson and picks, and taking on Carroll. That could of left the Knicks with 7 or 8 first round draft picks over 4 drafts. Yes in the short term we would be set back but we would of had a legitimate shot at a championship in the future if things broke our way. Now we will be a middling team for the next decade

Get all those draft picks for Porzingis, and hope we draft someone as good as.....Porzingis. Knicks have 2 years to make their case to keep KP. From what KP has said, the regime change (some of it) has calmed things down a great deal, even he didn't come out and say it directly. Im looking forward to seeing Porzingis apply what he learned over the summer.

Do you mean as good as Porzingis or with as much potential as Porzingis? I would not say he's currently the kind of phenomenal player we'd be hoping to get with all the picks. He does have the potential to reach that though.

In spite of all the dysfunction, KP numbers improved last season. I believe when a player's skill set is so unique that he gets the nickname "unicorn", finding another player in the draft like KP will be tough, even with multiple picks.

As you know, Porzingis was ROY runner up his first year. His sophmore season, in spite of being arguably on the most dyfunctional team, franchise, in the league, he got better.

Not the leap we were hoping for, but look at the environment that he was expected to perform in. A starting PG with the worst assist rate in the league at his position. Truth is we don't know KP's ceiling yet, but I believe we've seen enough not to ship him out at the first sign of trouble. Fortunately, the Knicks didn't.

I just don't value his position as much as a SF or SG. Bigs just dont have the value as wings. What good team today in the NBA has a Center as its best player.

As Ive said before, I dont believe that trying to go small to beat teams like GS is going to work. At some point, the trend is going to go in the opposite direction, with mobile bigs having the biggest impact. Would rather be ahead of the curve with KP as the foundation.

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I think the criticisms of the Knicks are fair. Both Hardaway Jr. and Baker were overpays. Baker should not of been given a player option, which has no benefit to the team whatsoever. The Hardaway Jr contract has top 10 worst contract in the NBA potential. A very small sample size to risk the length of his contract. My problem with the Hardaway Jr. contract is that at best we get what we paid for, the chances of him out producing that deal is very slim which begs the question what is the point? I just don't like the direction of the franchise. Hardaway Jr. isnt talented enough to keeep Porzingis from leaving in FA and he is good enough to cost the Knicks ping pong balls. I think the Knicks could of rebuilt the franchise this offeason by trading Porzingis, moving Melo for Anderson and picks, and taking on Carroll. That could of left the Knicks with 7 or 8 first round draft picks over 4 drafts. Yes in the short term we would be set back but we would of had a legitimate shot at a championship in the future if things broke our way. Now we will be a middling team for the next decade

Get all those draft picks for Porzingis, and hope we draft someone as good as.....Porzingis. Knicks have 2 years to make their case to keep KP. From what KP has said, the regime change (some of it) has calmed things down a great deal, even he didn't come out and say it directly. Im looking forward to seeing Porzingis apply what he learned over the summer.

Do you mean as good as Porzingis or with as much potential as Porzingis? I would not say he's currently the kind of phenomenal player we'd be hoping to get with all the picks. He does have the potential to reach that though.

In spite of all the dysfunction, KP numbers improved last season. I believe when a player's skill set is so unique that he gets the nickname "unicorn", finding another player in the draft like KP will be tough, even with multiple picks.

As you know, Porzingis was ROY runner up his first year. His sophmore season, in spite of being arguably on the most dyfunctional team, franchise, in the league, he got better.

Not the leap we were hoping for, but look at the environment that he was expected to perform in. A starting PG with the worst assist rate in the league at his position. Truth is we don't know KP's ceiling yet, but I believe we've seen enough not to ship him out at the first sign of trouble. Fortunately, the Knicks didn't.

I just don't value his position as much as a SF or SG. Bigs just dont have the value as wings. What good team today in the NBA has a Center as its best player.

As Ive said before, I dont believe that trying to go small to beat teams like GS is going to work. At some point, the trend is going to go in the opposite direction, with mobile bigs having the biggest impact. Would rather be ahead of the curve with KP as the foundation.

Being a mobile big only has value if you can also play inside. Porzingis needs to get in the paint and occasionally stretch the D when needed. Having a 7'3" player stand on the 3 point line is not going to win games

No one said KP was a finished product, certainly not me. He is still only 22. Nowitzki didn't have much of an inside game at first either, took a few years. Dirk didnt become "Dirk" until just before he won a ring. Spent most of his time taking long jumpers, up to that point.

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I think the criticisms of the Knicks are fair. Both Hardaway Jr. and Baker were overpays. Baker should not of been given a player option, which has no benefit to the team whatsoever. The Hardaway Jr contract has top 10 worst contract in the NBA potential. A very small sample size to risk the length of his contract. My problem with the Hardaway Jr. contract is that at best we get what we paid for, the chances of him out producing that deal is very slim which begs the question what is the point? I just don't like the direction of the franchise. Hardaway Jr. isnt talented enough to keeep Porzingis from leaving in FA and he is good enough to cost the Knicks ping pong balls. I think the Knicks could of rebuilt the franchise this offeason by trading Porzingis, moving Melo for Anderson and picks, and taking on Carroll. That could of left the Knicks with 7 or 8 first round draft picks over 4 drafts. Yes in the short term we would be set back but we would of had a legitimate shot at a championship in the future if things broke our way. Now we will be a middling team for the next decade

Get all those draft picks for Porzingis, and hope we draft someone as good as.....Porzingis. Knicks have 2 years to make their case to keep KP. From what KP has said, the regime change (some of it) has calmed things down a great deal, even he didn't come out and say it directly. Im looking forward to seeing Porzingis apply what he learned over the summer.

Do you mean as good as Porzingis or with as much potential as Porzingis? I would not say he's currently the kind of phenomenal player we'd be hoping to get with all the picks. He does have the potential to reach that though.

In spite of all the dysfunction, KP numbers improved last season. I believe when a player's skill set is so unique that he gets the nickname "unicorn", finding another player in the draft like KP will be tough, even with multiple picks.

As you know, Porzingis was ROY runner up his first year. His sophmore season, in spite of being arguably on the most dyfunctional team, franchise, in the league, he got better.

Not the leap we were hoping for, but look at the environment that he was expected to perform in. A starting PG with the worst assist rate in the league at his position. Truth is we don't know KP's ceiling yet, but I believe we've seen enough not to ship him out at the first sign of trouble. Fortunately, the Knicks didn't.

I just don't value his position as much as a SF or SG. Bigs just dont have the value as wings. What good team today in the NBA has a Center as its best player.

As Ive said before, I dont believe that trying to go small to beat teams like GS is going to work. At some point, the trend is going to go in the opposite direction, with mobile bigs having the biggest impact. Would rather be ahead of the curve with KP as the foundation.

Being a mobile big only has value if you can also play inside. Porzingis needs to get in the paint and occasionally stretch the D when needed. Having a 7'3" player stand on the 3 point line is not going to win games

No one said KP was a finished product, certainly not me. He is still only 22. Nowitzki didn't have much of an inside game at first either, took a few years. Dirk didnt become "Dirk" until just before he won a ring. Spent most of his time taking long jumpers, up to that point.