smackeddog wrote:While we're talking about melo- remember that off-season where he posted the photo of him looking thin and we all freaked out and said he was looking like he did when he was a rookie? Hahn was laughing about it in today's radio show and said that the reason he looked so thin was because they had stretched the photo, and no one figured it out

Knickoftime wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:The problem I have is how conducts himself when he is on the Knicks roster. He's a selfish and toxic player and he's accountable for that. How he plays and conducts himself is one of the reasons that his market is still limited and would even be limited even without a NTC.

It really isn't.

The two teams he's open to play for feature his best friends, both who have leverage and influence with their front offices. Houston at least, seems highly motivated. Problem in Cleveland may just be a lack of a front office.

A 3rd team also seems interested, led by their two star players who seem to value Melo pretty highly.

The problem with Melo's market is less his perceived value to those teams, and more those teams just don't have the pieces or motivation to make better offers.

I don't know that if Memphis or Charlotte or Toronto had strong interest in Melo it would make any difference given the NTC and trade knicker.

You are saying they are motivated to get him, and they are not willing to trade the players we want then it shows their motivation is not as strong as it's being made out to be. Houston wants Melo and they want to trade garbage to us for giving him to them. Not exactly motivated buyers. They won't even trade Ariza for Melo THAT says a lot more about his market value than the NTC. I think it's less of them not having pieces and more of them not trading the pieces they do have. Boston refused to trade Crowder or a pick for Melo as well. His market value is being set by the market, not by the NTC.

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:While we're talking about melo- remember that off-season where he posted the photo of him looking thin and we all freaked out and said he was looking like he did when he was a rookie? Hahn was laughing about it in today's radio show and said that the reason he looked so thin was because they had stretched the photo, and no one figured it out

His trainer tweeted today that Melo is in the best shape he has been in since he has known him.

Ha, when has a trainer not said that? It's in their job spec

newyorker4ever wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:If he does not accept the trade to Portland, then bench him. Marbury him. Simple.

That'll help change the culture and the fans, media and other players perception of the Knicks organization. The media would have a field day with it if we benched him cause we were mad that he actually used the NTC wed gave him and other players definitely wouldn't be looking our way when they're free agents.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:If he does not accept the trade to Portland, then bench him. Marbury him. Simple.

That'll help change the culture and the fans, media and other players perception of the Knicks organization. The media would have a field day with it if we benched him cause we were mad that he actually used the NTC wed gave him and other players definitely wouldn't be looking our way when they're free agents.

I don't think you can punish a player for exercising a right bargained in their contract like his NTC. I think the Knicks would have troubled with the league office and the players union if they did something like that.

For benching him? Who said its a punishment? Knicks want to develop the kids. Melo has a penchant for not passing the ball.
Its up to the coach. There is nothing that says a player has to play?
Cav's don't have to play Lebron. coach can say your not playing today. Or ever.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:The problem I have is how conducts himself when he is on the Knicks roster. He's a selfish and toxic player and he's accountable for that. How he plays and conducts himself is one of the reasons that his market is still limited and would even be limited even without a NTC.

It really isn't.

The two teams he's open to play for feature his best friends, both who have leverage and influence with their front offices. Houston at least, seems highly motivated. Problem in Cleveland may just be a lack of a front office.

A 3rd team also seems interested, led by their two star players who seem to value Melo pretty highly.

The problem with Melo's market is less his perceived value to those teams, and more those teams just don't have the pieces or motivation to make better offers.

I don't know that if Memphis or Charlotte or Toronto had strong interest in Melo it would make any difference given the NTC and trade knicker.

You are saying they are motivated to get him, and they are not willing to trade the players we want then it shows their motivation is not as strong as it's being made out to be.

It doesn't have to be. He won't go anywhere else.

And it's July.

Houston wants Melo and they want to trade garbage to us for giving him to them. Not exactly motivated buyers.

1.) They have no reason to be.

2.) They don't have much more of anything even if they were bidding against themselves.

They won't even trade Ariza for Melo THAT says a lot more about his market value than the NTC.

He won't go anywhere else.

One of his best friends is on the Rockets. I'd assume they communicate.

If Paul is telling Morey in July Melo is all-in, why would Houston offer a starter they want to keep in July? What purpose does that serve them?

There is NO imperative here other than made-up ones by fans who are impatient.

Morey has no less than 3 months before the season starts to try to hang on to Ariza (and Gordon) and wait out the Knicks. He's got ZERO reason not to.

There is no bidding war. It's a one team market.

The issue here you're confusing me saying the perceived market for Melo is irrelevant with me saying if there was an open market it'd be strong.

Those are NOT the same things and I'm saying the former.

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:The problem I have is how conducts himself when he is on the Knicks roster. He's a selfish and toxic player and he's accountable for that. How he plays and conducts himself is one of the reasons that his market is still limited and would even be limited even without a NTC.

It really isn't.

The two teams he's open to play for feature his best friends, both who have leverage and influence with their front offices. Houston at least, seems highly motivated. Problem in Cleveland may just be a lack of a front office.

A 3rd team also seems interested, led by their two star players who seem to value Melo pretty highly.

The problem with Melo's market is less his perceived value to those teams, and more those teams just don't have the pieces or motivation to make better offers.

I don't know that if Memphis or Charlotte or Toronto had strong interest in Melo it would make any difference given the NTC and trade knicker.

You are saying they are motivated to get him, and they are not willing to trade the players we want then it shows their motivation is not as strong as it's being made out to be.

It doesn't have to be. He won't go anywhere else.

And it's July.

Houston wants Melo and they want to trade garbage to us for giving him to them. Not exactly motivated buyers.

1.) They have no reason to be.

2.) They don't have much more of anything even if they were bidding against themselves.

They won't even trade Ariza for Melo THAT says a lot more about his market value than the NTC.

He won't go anywhere else.

One of his best friends is on the Rockets. I'd assume they communicate.

If Paul is telling Morey in July Melo is all-in, why would Houston offer a starter they want to keep in July? What purpose does that serve them?

There is NO imperative here other than made-up ones by fans who are impatient.
My
Morey has no less than 3 months before the season starts to try to hang on to Ariza (and Gordon) and wait out the Knicks. He's got ZERO reason not to.

There is no bidding war. It's a one team market.

The issue here you're confusing me saying the perceived market for Melo is irrelevant with me saying if there was an open market it'd be strong.

Those are NOT the same things and I'm saying the former.

You can argue both sides of this till you are blue in the face. We have no need to move Melo to his destination of choice. We can do this Mexican standoff for ever but getting closer to September won't change the values of the pieces in the trade. But other pieces that maybe available now to facilitate such a trade using third or fourth teams may well cease to be available. Negotiating isn't just about holding on for best value, you need to increase the size of the pie.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:The problem I have is how conducts himself when he is on the Knicks roster. He's a selfish and toxic player and he's accountable for that. How he plays and conducts himself is one of the reasons that his market is still limited and would even be limited even without a NTC.

It really isn't.

The two teams he's open to play for feature his best friends, both who have leverage and influence with their front offices. Houston at least, seems highly motivated. Problem in Cleveland may just be a lack of a front office.

A 3rd team also seems interested, led by their two star players who seem to value Melo pretty highly.

The problem with Melo's market is less his perceived value to those teams, and more those teams just don't have the pieces or motivation to make better offers.

I don't know that if Memphis or Charlotte or Toronto had strong interest in Melo it would make any difference given the NTC and trade knicker.

You are saying they are motivated to get him, and they are not willing to trade the players we want then it shows their motivation is not as strong as it's being made out to be.

It doesn't have to be. He won't go anywhere else.

And it's July.

Houston wants Melo and they want to trade garbage to us for giving him to them. Not exactly motivated buyers.

1.) They have no reason to be.

2.) They don't have much more of anything even if they were bidding against themselves.

They won't even trade Ariza for Melo THAT says a lot more about his market value than the NTC.

He won't go anywhere else.

One of his best friends is on the Rockets. I'd assume they communicate.

If Paul is telling Morey in July Melo is all-in, why would Houston offer a starter they want to keep in July? What purpose does that serve them?

There is NO imperative here other than made-up ones by fans who are impatient.
My
Morey has no less than 3 months before the season starts to try to hang on to Ariza (and Gordon) and wait out the Knicks. He's got ZERO reason not to.

There is no bidding war. It's a one team market.

The issue here you're confusing me saying the perceived market for Melo is irrelevant with me saying if there was an open market it'd be strong.

Those are NOT the same things and I'm saying the former.

You can argue both sides of this till you are blue in the face. We have no need to move Melo to his destination of choice.[ We can do this Mexican standoff for ever but getting closer to September won't change the values of the pieces in the trade.

I'm not arguing otherwise.

But other pieces that maybe available now to facilitate such a trade using third or fourth teams may well cease to be available.

Maybe, but that's a constant in the NBA and any sport really. And you're referring to the value of Anderson or Gordon more than the value of Melo.

The fact still remains his value to other teams is irrelevant if its not an open bidding situation. The Bucks could be super-hot for him. Doesn't mean a thing to the process.

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:Never seen a player as mediocre as Melo get catered to so much.

A 10x all star, 3x gold medal, scored the 2nd most points in Olympic play, the guy is plastered on the TV every hr on the hr regarding this potential trade. He is the biggest topic of discussion currently in the NBA, scoring title.

There is nothing mediocre about Melo, if he was, we wouldn't have 50 threads discussing him.

Lee, noah, holiday, those are avg players.

I was wonder, did he have a NTC in DENVER, or did they just honor his New York wishes?

You missed the point. I'm not talking about his aggregate career in a void. No one in the history of the league has had as much say in their organization besides Lebron, Kobe in his prime and MJ(?) in his prime. Melo is mediocre next to these players.

Made it to a conference finals only once in his career. Tons of coaches and front office people fired & players traded to make room for his bad defense and bad ball movement style.

You need to stop with these "history of the league" comments when it's obvious your frame of reference doesn't extend pass this millennium.

Actually that is on purpose and that probably has more to do with you not know the history of the league extending passed the millennium. The idea of players having a say like Melo does with the Knicks was unheard of in the past so the idea of me having to bring up someone from the 60s or 70s here shows your ignorance more than anything.

When did you start following the NBA?

Let me repeat your statement: "No one in the history of the league has had as much say in their organization besides Lebron, Kobe in his prime and MJ(?) in his prime." Other than those three, Melo has had more say than any other player in league history with his organization? Really?

No, my statement was that no one around Melo's talent/achievement level has ever had so much privilege within an organization. That privilege is usually reserved for someone as good near as impactful as Lebron and that ain't Melo.

That was a direct cut and paste of your post. What privileges are you talking about? If you're just talking about the terms of his contract, there are a ton of players who have had worse contracts than Melo's. Other than his contract, what are these "privileges" you're vaguely referring to.

And again, when did you start following the NBA?

Yeah you cut and paste my post. Then you right after that you did your own interpretation of my material which I'm letting you know is wrong.

The privilege I'm talking about is the ability to get coaches and front office fired. To get team mates off the team.

Name me one other player in the history of the league whos done this and never won an MVP or at least made it to a conference finals twice.

So let me get this straight, Melo had the organization fire coaches, Melo had the organization fire front office personnel and Melo had the organization get rid of teammates? You need to explain specifically who you're talking about and the specifics of how Melo made all of this happen.

For the third time, when did you start following the NBA?

Now you're just playing ignorant and I have no interest in indulging.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:The problem I have is how conducts himself when he is on the Knicks roster. He's a selfish and toxic player and he's accountable for that. How he plays and conducts himself is one of the reasons that his market is still limited and would even be limited even without a NTC.

It really isn't.

The two teams he's open to play for feature his best friends, both who have leverage and influence with their front offices. Houston at least, seems highly motivated. Problem in Cleveland may just be a lack of a front office.

A 3rd team also seems interested, led by their two star players who seem to value Melo pretty highly.

The problem with Melo's market is less his perceived value to those teams, and more those teams just don't have the pieces or motivation to make better offers.

I don't know that if Memphis or Charlotte or Toronto had strong interest in Melo it would make any difference given the NTC and trade knicker.

You are saying they are motivated to get him, and they are not willing to trade the players we want then it shows their motivation is not as strong as it's being made out to be.

It doesn't have to be. He won't go anywhere else.

And it's July.

Houston wants Melo and they want to trade garbage to us for giving him to them. Not exactly motivated buyers.

1.) They have no reason to be.

2.) They don't have much more of anything even if they were bidding against themselves.

They won't even trade Ariza for Melo THAT says a lot more about his market value than the NTC.

He won't go anywhere else.

One of his best friends is on the Rockets. I'd assume they communicate.

If Paul is telling Morey in July Melo is all-in, why would Houston offer a starter they want to keep in July? What purpose does that serve them?

There is NO imperative here other than made-up ones by fans who are impatient.
My
Morey has no less than 3 months before the season starts to try to hang on to Ariza (and Gordon) and wait out the Knicks. He's got ZERO reason not to.

There is no bidding war. It's a one team market.

The issue here you're confusing me saying the perceived market for Melo is irrelevant with me saying if there was an open market it'd be strong.

Those are NOT the same things and I'm saying the former.

You can argue both sides of this till you are blue in the face. We have no need to move Melo to his destination of choice.[ We can do this Mexican standoff for ever but getting closer to September won't change the values of the pieces in the trade.

I'm not arguing otherwise.

But other pieces that maybe available now to facilitate such a trade using third or fourth teams may well cease to be available.

Maybe, but that's a constant in the NBA and any sport really. And you're referring to the value of Anderson or Gordon more than the value of Melo.

The fact still remains his value to other teams is irrelevant if its not an open bidding situation. The Bucks could be super-hot for him. Doesn't mean a thing to the process.

I am only referring to the opportunity cost of waiting. Portland or Denver or whoever may suddenly lose interest in Ryan Anderson or Morey may decide to lower the offer to RA and one pick instead of two. Morey has no reason to bid higher you keep making that point, so what can you gain by waiting?

Not taking a package that's less desirable than what you already have, is the possible gain, to answer your question.

This has never been ANYTHING > Melo.

And we don't even know if two picks have been offered. We don't even actually know if any picks were offered and/or whatever protections are being placed on them if there are any.

Concluding the Knicks are waiting too long is utterly pointless if you don't know what they're waiting on.

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:If he does not accept the trade to Portland, then bench him. Marbury him. Simple.

That'll help change the culture and the fans, media and other players perception of the Knicks organization. The media would have a field day with it if we benched him cause we were mad that he actually used the NTC wed gave him and other players definitely wouldn't be looking our way when they're free agents.

I don't think you can punish a player for exercising a right bargained in their contract like his NTC. I think the Knicks would have troubled with the league office and the players union if they did something like that.

For benching him? Who said its a punishment? Knicks want to develop the kids. Melo has a penchant for not passing the ball.
Its up to the coach. There is nothing that says a player has to play?
Cav's don't have to play Lebron. coach can say your not playing today. Or ever.

I was hoping they would try it while Phil was still here because I thought Silver might step in and remove Phil. (I thought Phil had a lifetime appointment). Melo is the best player on the Knicks if he returns. He also is vp of the players' union. I don't think it would work out for the KNicks if they did this. Also, I think it would seem obvious that it was an attempt to void the ntc that he was given by the club. The Knicks could lower his minutes, change his role but to just bench him because he would not accept a trade to a destination the Knicks wanted I would think would be interpeted as unethical by the league. Will see.

That would set a horrible precedent that players with NTC can dictate front office moves and act in insubordination without repercussion. It would also be potentially hamstring a franchise from making a move that is in its future best interest.

No sane team would ever give a NTC again if that precedent were set.