Vmart wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.

i like your posts b/c they are predictable :)

daryl morey traded a first rounder to dump lin. he's overrated too.

while it's not a good look to trade a first rounder to dump your first big FA...there's a little more to it. there's follow up moves coming and we needed to not only open up a spot for norman powell to get minutes but to sign him as well as he's an RFA next summer.

this also allows us to use the full MLE instead of the luxury tax MLE.

it's a lotto protected pick. we already have a 2nd rounder from the magic in 2018.

there are more moves to follow. at the end of the day, we get to 50 and advance, then it's all good. just b/c you don't have a title contending roster doesn't mean you're not a good gm. i'm not sure you understand just how tough being a gm in this league is.

I think Morley is overrated he has some delusion that adding all these players is going to put him over the top. And giving Harden a ridiculous extension for a guy who quit on his team vs Spurs.

You know what's predictable DJ it's you find ways to give Knicks move a back hand slap and every Raptor move is suppose to be golden. Knicks over pay and Raptors don't these moves by Ujiri are Knicks like moves over paying for injury prone player in Lowery and giving first round picks to get rid of bad contracts. And you have the audacity to complain about the Knicks. Ujiri isn't improving the team all he is doing is coming back with the same in hopes LeBron leaves and that will be enough to put him in the finals. Eventually he is going to deplete the picks. Believe it or not DJ it's all down hill for the Raptors.

i very rarely talks knicks on this forum. i would say 99% is in the politics thread and then when i see a raptors post here and there. and most of my knicks talk is just playful back and forth with people i know on this board.

all knicks analysis comes down to one thing - it's almost impossible they will ever succeed under dolan. all the other things are just details but overall, that's an accurate sentiment.

as for the raptors, our peak could have possibly been the ecf's 2 years ago...and that's OK. stay in the 47-52 win area, advance and i'm good. i don't have this unrealistic view on sports and i'm not setting myself up to be constantly unhappy with unrealistic goals. trying to improve on 56 wins and ecf's is next to impossible - would need durant to sign as a FA lol.

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

Yeah I'm honestly not sure which would be better. It's a tough call. I'd probably prefer getting the picks but I could still support what they're doing. I just don't want to see injury prone old guys or overrated volume scorers getting huge deals any more.
20 to 25 might be a more reasonable prediction for the Raptors pick though obviously nothing is guaranteed.

I find myself feeling shorted by the THJr signing- especially with Kentavious Caldwell Pope still on the market, likely to be shorted on this upcoming contract. And then when you combine that, with knowing we could have committed fewer years/money to be in a position to draft a comparable talent to THJr with the Raptors pick, it makes me hate the signing and question the Knicks' judgment. Why sign anyone knowing how valued a commodity cap space will be now that it is more scarce and with the market stabilizing?

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

The Nets did the same thing the Knicks did initially, chased a young player they liked with an over pay. When that didn't work out they reset and took on cap for picks. The Nets chose Porter first. I like this move for the Nets. I am not sure if the Knicks would go this route. I think Cole gets moved for a pick soon as well.

The Nets are in a significantly different set of circumstances in my opinion though. They need to gamble and assume a higher degree of risk to improve since they have no franchise player, no draft picks and a roster unappealing to free agents. Despite our managerial/ownership instability, we do have some intriguing talent and the ability to turn things around relatively quickly with more saavy moves. Because of this incongruence, I wouldn't inform my decision making based on the Nets and what they do....though I would have made that trade for Carroll and not signed THJr.

The Raptors flipping Joseph for CJ Miles made it clear they were interested in a swingman and we obviously needed a PG. I would've offered Courtney Lee's services in exchange for Joseph and expanded the deal to include DeMarre Carroll (using our cap space), the rights to OB Anunoby and their 2018 second round pick. That would make more sense to me than THJr.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

The Nets did the same thing the Knicks did initially, chased a young player they liked with an over pay. When that didn't work out they reset and took on cap for picks. The Nets chose Porter first. I like this move for the Nets. I am not sure if the Knicks would go this route. I think Cole gets moved for a pick soon as well.

The Nets are in a significantly different set of circumstances in my opinion though. They need to gamble and assume a higher degree of risk to improve since they have no franchise player, no draft picks and a roster unappealing to free agents. Despite our managerial/ownership instability, we do have some intriguing talent and the ability to turn things around relatively quickly with more saavy moves. Because of this incongruence, I wouldn't inform my decision making based on the Nets and what they do....though I would have made that trade for Carroll and not signed THJr.

The Raptors flipping Joseph for CJ Miles made it clear they were interested in a swingman and we obviously needed a PG. I would've offered Courtney Lee's services in exchange for Joseph and expanded the deal to include DeMarre Carroll (using our cap space), the rights to OB Anunoby and their 2018 second round pick. That would make more sense to me than THJr.

I feel the same way. We would've filled a few holes, gained some assets and remained flexible. I'm not kill THJ. He's solid. I'd have no problem with him at a lower price. But we weren't a solid NBA shooting guard away from contending, or even making the playoffs. There was no need take a gamble like that. Mills had salary cap space burning in his pocket and he couldn't resist the urge to spend it. Now we've limited our ability to improve the roster and we still suck.

Well, there's a payroll floor. You do have to spend the money on someone or otherwise pay penalty.

We could've a pulled a play out of the Morey playbook and signed one year deals and non guaranteed deals to act as placeholders on the cap until the space was needed. I think Mills could have found creative ways to meet payroll requirements.

Jmpasq wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

The Nets did the same thing the Knicks did initially, chased a young player they liked with an over pay. When that didn't work out they reset and took on cap for picks. The Nets chose Porter first. I like this move for the Nets. I am not sure if the Knicks would go this route. I think Cole gets moved for a pick soon as well.

The Nets are in a significantly different set of circumstances in my opinion though. They need to gamble and assume a higher degree of risk to improve since they have no franchise player, no draft picks and a roster unappealing to free agents. Despite our managerial/ownership instability, we do have some intriguing talent and the ability to turn things around relatively quickly with more saavy moves. Because of this incongruence, I wouldn't inform my decision making based on the Nets and what they do....though I would have made that trade for Carroll and not signed THJr.

The Raptors flipping Joseph for CJ Miles made it clear they were interested in a swingman and we obviously needed a PG. I would've offered Courtney Lee's services in exchange for Joseph and expanded the deal to include DeMarre Carroll (using our cap space), the rights to OB Anunoby and their 2018 second round pick. That would make more sense to me than THJr.

I feel the same way. We would've filled a few holes, gained some assets and remained flexible. I'm not kill THJ. He's solid. I'd have no problem with him at a lower price. But we weren't a solid NBA shooting guard away from contending, or even making the playoffs. There was no need take a gamble like that. Mills had salary cap space burning in his pocket and he couldn't resist the urge to spend it. Now we've limited our ability to improve the roster and we still suck.

Well, there's a payroll floor. You do have to spend the money on someone or otherwise pay penalty.

We could've a pulled a play out of the Morey playbook and signed one year deals and non guaranteed deals to act as placeholders on the cap until the space was needed. I think Mills could have found creative ways to meet payroll requirements.

anyone with half a brain would do that but the Knicks operate at 64th's or less, I dont mind the money per year for Hardaway as much as the length. A 2 year deal would of been fine.

You still haven't answered how the Nets trying to max out Porter is consistent with the approach you advocate?

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

Agree. If we tradeMelo out would give us an SF to fill out the roster. THJR deal basically means we can't get a vet PG to mentor Frank

And what do you think the Carroll deal would do to that PG capspace?

Should have made it clear i prefer either/or to THJR, not saying we can get both. A pick in 20s can get you a THJR minus the 71 million commitment with trade kicker. Before we did this deal, I was going we would actually sign Rondo, hence the other part of my post.

Jmpasq wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

The Nets did the same thing the Knicks did initially, chased a young player they liked with an over pay. When that didn't work out they reset and took on cap for picks. The Nets chose Porter first. I like this move for the Nets. I am not sure if the Knicks would go this route. I think Cole gets moved for a pick soon as well.

The Nets are in a significantly different set of circumstances in my opinion though. They need to gamble and assume a higher degree of risk to improve since they have no franchise player, no draft picks and a roster unappealing to free agents. Despite our managerial/ownership instability, we do have some intriguing talent and the ability to turn things around relatively quickly with more saavy moves. Because of this incongruence, I wouldn't inform my decision making based on the Nets and what they do....though I would have made that trade for Carroll and not signed THJr.

The Raptors flipping Joseph for CJ Miles made it clear they were interested in a swingman and we obviously needed a PG. I would've offered Courtney Lee's services in exchange for Joseph and expanded the deal to include DeMarre Carroll (using our cap space), the rights to OB Anunoby and their 2018 second round pick. That would make more sense to me than THJr.

I feel the same way. We would've filled a few holes, gained some assets and remained flexible. I'm not kill THJ. He's solid. I'd have no problem with him at a lower price. But we weren't a solid NBA shooting guard away from contending, or even making the playoffs. There was no need take a gamble like that. Mills had salary cap space burning in his pocket and he couldn't resist the urge to spend it. Now we've limited our ability to improve the roster and we still suck.

Well, there's a payroll floor. You do have to spend the money on someone or otherwise pay penalty.

We could've a pulled a play out of the Morey playbook and signed one year deals and non guaranteed deals to act as placeholders on the cap until the space was needed. I think Mills could have found creative ways to meet payroll requirements.

anyone with half a brain would do that but the Knicks operate at 64th's or less, I dont mind the money per year for Hardaway as much as the length. A 2 year deal would of been fine.

Knickoftime wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

The Nets did the same thing the Knicks did initially, chased a young player they liked with an over pay. When that didn't work out they reset and took on cap for picks. The Nets chose Porter first. I like this move for the Nets. I am not sure if the Knicks would go this route. I think Cole gets moved for a pick soon as well.

The Nets are in a significantly different set of circumstances in my opinion though. They need to gamble and assume a higher degree of risk to improve since they have no franchise player, no draft picks and a roster unappealing to free agents. Despite our managerial/ownership instability, we do have some intriguing talent and the ability to turn things around relatively quickly with more saavy moves. Because of this incongruence, I wouldn't inform my decision making based on the Nets and what they do....though I would have made that trade for Carroll and not signed THJr.

The Raptors flipping Joseph for CJ Miles made it clear they were interested in a swingman and we obviously needed a PG. I would've offered Courtney Lee's services in exchange for Joseph and expanded the deal to include DeMarre Carroll (using our cap space), the rights to OB Anunoby and their 2018 second round pick. That would make more sense to me than THJr.

I feel the same way. We would've filled a few holes, gained some assets and remained flexible. I'm not kill THJ. He's solid. I'd have no problem with him at a lower price. But we weren't a solid NBA shooting guard away from contending, or even making the playoffs. There was no need take a gamble like that. Mills had salary cap space burning in his pocket and he couldn't resist the urge to spend it. Now we've limited our ability to improve the roster and we still suck.

Well, there's a payroll floor. You do have to spend the money on someone or otherwise pay penalty.

We could've a pulled a play out of the Morey playbook and signed one year deals and non guaranteed deals to act as placeholders on the cap until the space was needed. I think Mills could have found creative ways to meet payroll requirements.

anyone with half a brain would do that but the Knicks operate at 64th's or less, I dont mind the money per year for Hardaway as much as the length. A 2 year deal would of been fine.

You still haven't answered how the Nets trying to max out Porter is consistent with the approach you advocate?

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

Agree. If we tradeMelo out would give us an SF to fill out the roster. THJR deal basically means we can't get a vet PG to mentor Frank

And what do you think the Carroll deal would do to that PG capspace?

Should have made it clear i prefer either/or to THJR, not saying we can get both. A pick in 20s can get you a THJR minus the 71 million commitment with trade kicker. Before we did this deal, I was going we would actually sign Rondo, hence the other part of my post.

They're apparently talking. Not a done deal but an open mind at this point would likely be prudent.

Now whether THJ will ultimately be worth $71m is a fair question and I'm skeptical myself. But his 2916-17, last months and postseason does at least offer some promise of performance that no, you in no way shape or form can typically expect from a pick in the 20s.

And let's not pretend it's $71m vs $0.00. You need to factor in the $9m or so you'd pay the 25(?) pick over 4 development years, the $xx amount you'd pay him for his first extension as he enters his prime years and oh yeah, the $30m+ you're paying to Carroll just for the privilege.

The knock on the THjr signing is that that sample size is too small and that may not be the player we are getting. That is fair. If we do get that player this is a good signing, at least as far as value and production. To suggest you could grab some guard in the 20s and give you what Hardaway gave the Hawks last season is ridiculous.

Knickoftime wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

The Nets did the same thing the Knicks did initially, chased a young player they liked with an over pay. When that didn't work out they reset and took on cap for picks. The Nets chose Porter first. I like this move for the Nets. I am not sure if the Knicks would go this route. I think Cole gets moved for a pick soon as well.

The Nets are in a significantly different set of circumstances in my opinion though. They need to gamble and assume a higher degree of risk to improve since they have no franchise player, no draft picks and a roster unappealing to free agents. Despite our managerial/ownership instability, we do have some intriguing talent and the ability to turn things around relatively quickly with more saavy moves. Because of this incongruence, I wouldn't inform my decision making based on the Nets and what they do....though I would have made that trade for Carroll and not signed THJr.

The Raptors flipping Joseph for CJ Miles made it clear they were interested in a swingman and we obviously needed a PG. I would've offered Courtney Lee's services in exchange for Joseph and expanded the deal to include DeMarre Carroll (using our cap space), the rights to OB Anunoby and their 2018 second round pick. That would make more sense to me than THJr.

I feel the same way. We would've filled a few holes, gained some assets and remained flexible. I'm not kill THJ. He's solid. I'd have no problem with him at a lower price. But we weren't a solid NBA shooting guard away from contending, or even making the playoffs. There was no need take a gamble like that. Mills had salary cap space burning in his pocket and he couldn't resist the urge to spend it. Now we've limited our ability to improve the roster and we still suck.

Well, there's a payroll floor. You do have to spend the money on someone or otherwise pay penalty.

We could've a pulled a play out of the Morey playbook and signed one year deals and non guaranteed deals to act as placeholders on the cap until the space was needed. I think Mills could have found creative ways to meet payroll requirements.

anyone with half a brain would do that but the Knicks operate at 64th's or less, I dont mind the money per year for Hardaway as much as the length. A 2 year deal would of been fine.

You still haven't answered how the Nets trying to max out Porter is consistent with the approach you advocate?

Different set of circumstances, they don't have a time limit set on them because of Porzingis. They also don't own their pick next year so tanking away this season is pointless. Porter will be gone before they need to sign any of their draft picks to extensions

No.

Had they signed porter they wouldn't have had the cap to take Carroll and get the draft pick, the move you so admire.

They'd have no 2018 pick. As I say you overshot the mark. Basically the nets could have done no wrong in your eyes because you wanted to make a point about the Knicks.

Porter for all their space? How smart.

Huge chunk of space for a lottery protected pick? How smart.

Yes your right because both moves make more sense than what the Knicks did. Porter is much better than Hardaway. I would much rather pay Porter 30 over Hardaway's 18. Again my biggest problem with what the Knicks did is they kill the ability to add a max player during Porzingis FA year. The Nets don't have to worry about that so paying Porter is fine. When they didn't get Porter they pivoted and made a nice move.

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.

The Nets did the same thing the Knicks did initially, chased a young player they liked with an over pay. When that didn't work out they reset and took on cap for picks. The Nets chose Porter first. I like this move for the Nets. I am not sure if the Knicks would go this route. I think Cole gets moved for a pick soon as well.

The Nets are in a significantly different set of circumstances in my opinion though. They need to gamble and assume a higher degree of risk to improve since they have no franchise player, no draft picks and a roster unappealing to free agents. Despite our managerial/ownership instability, we do have some intriguing talent and the ability to turn things around relatively quickly with more saavy moves. Because of this incongruence, I wouldn't inform my decision making based on the Nets and what they do....though I would have made that trade for Carroll and not signed THJr.

The Raptors flipping Joseph for CJ Miles made it clear they were interested in a swingman and we obviously needed a PG. I would've offered Courtney Lee's services in exchange for Joseph and expanded the deal to include DeMarre Carroll (using our cap space), the rights to OB Anunoby and their 2018 second round pick. That would make more sense to me than THJr.

I feel the same way. We would've filled a few holes, gained some assets and remained flexible. I'm not kill THJ. He's solid. I'd have no problem with him at a lower price. But we weren't a solid NBA shooting guard away from contending, or even making the playoffs. There was no need take a gamble like that. Mills had salary cap space burning in his pocket and he couldn't resist the urge to spend it. Now we've limited our ability to improve the roster and we still suck.

And that's what puzzles me most with the Knicks and their front office culture. We, more than any other team, seem to constantly commit big money to players that barely move the needle. Despite the results being disastrous, we do it time and time again. There is some reason for optimism in bringing Tim Hardaway back but his pricetag and our current predicament negate whatever value he does provide. I'm sure that by next year this time, we will be trying our best to find destinations for Hardaway and I actually am a fan of his.