fishmike wrote:

Sinix wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Sinix wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Sinix wrote:

technomaster wrote:For what it's worth, Allan Houston left Detroit after his 3rd year to come to the Knicks. In his final year with the Pistons, he averaged 19.7ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.0apg (in year 2 he had averaged 14.5ppg).

In his first year with the Knicks, Houston was just okay, averaging 14.8ppg, 3.0rpg, 2.2apg.

I think if you give THJr equivalent minutes as Houston (33.1mpg) he'd be at least as productive.

Um no. The game back then was a big mans game. Look at Reggie Millers numbers compared to Allan Houstons. Not that different in that time period.

Are you going to tell me next THjr is close to Reggie Miller?

Alan Houston should of been an all star player before he signed with the Knicks. Only reason he wasn't was he had Michael Jordan and Reggie Miller around.

THjr in comparison is closer to a d league player than an NBA starter.

Also Houston was 7x all star before coming to the Knicks. Also Eddy Curry was the next Shaq. Also Steve Francis was a superstar when we got him.

I would say give me some of what Sinix is smoking but it doesnt sound fun at all. This guy is making up his own reality.

If you don't remember the nickname baby Shaq, Stevie Francis being one of the top talents in the league and you think that post is crazy, odds are you are probably like 12 years old and weren't around for that era.

no odds are I was awake for it unlike you. Curry was never mistaken for Shaq AFTER he was drafted. The Greek kid was also called baby shaq. Is that your criterea?

Steve Francis? Really? Out of the league 1 year after leaving the Knicks.

I hate to resort to name calling but you are posting some of the dumbest **** ever around here. Carry on... I look forward to hearing how we "just missed" the finals behind veteran leadership of Antonio Davis.

Yes, yes he was compared to and called baby Shaq after he was traded to the Knicks. Do you think the Knicks would of traded 3 draft picks for him if he didn't have that reputation? I picked out an earlier article that uses the name baby Shaq in his rookie season but he's still called that during his Knick tenure. I know because I watched all those games. I was posting on forums like this about him. You, on the other hand, are showing you are in over your head in this discussion.

maybe you should check my join date.

He was never called baby shaq as a Knick. Prove it. You cant as you are full of crap.

Do I think the Knicks would have traded 3 picks? Nobody is sure why they did, considering the Bulls were going to pay him to RETIRE FROM BASKETBALL. But yea... keep talking about how smart Isiah was. Thats helping you build your points

You've lost the plot. Arguing Isiah made a smart move is the furthest from what I'm doing. However at the time of the trade Curry was a top young talent in the NBA and commanded a huge trade package to get him. Just because he was a huge talent doesn't mean it was the right move for the Knicks to get him nor does it mean the package was right. Similar to the THjr move here. This isn't the right move for us either.

Eddy Curry was an incredible talent that ultimately didn't fulfill his potential. Like Marbury. Like Melo. Like Zach Randolph. Like Phil. Like Amare. Like Larry Brown. Like countless other Knicks. The Knicks culture that is in place doesn't even give people a chance to win. It's a place to get paid.

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Sinix wrote:

technomaster wrote:For what it's worth, Allan Houston left Detroit after his 3rd year to come to the Knicks. In his final year with the Pistons, he averaged 19.7ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.0apg (in year 2 he had averaged 14.5ppg).

In his first year with the Knicks, Houston was just okay, averaging 14.8ppg, 3.0rpg, 2.2apg.

I think if you give THJr equivalent minutes as Houston (33.1mpg) he'd be at least as productive.

Um no. The game back then was a big mans game. Look at Reggie Millers numbers compared to Allan Houstons. Not that different in that time period.

Are you going to tell me next THjr is close to Reggie Miller?

Alan Houston should of been an all star player before he signed with the Knicks. Only reason he wasn't was he had Michael Jordan and Reggie Miller around.

THjr in comparison is closer to a d league player than an NBA starter.

Also Houston was 7x all star before coming to the Knicks. Also Eddy Curry was the next Shaq. Also Steve Francis was a superstar when we got him.

I would say give me some of what Sinix is smoking but it doesnt sound fun at all. This guy is making up his own reality.

Saying the only reason someone wasn't an all-star was because there were better players in the conference is kinda ridiculous. It's like wanting to give Ewing credit for winning a ring if it weren't for Jordan and Hakeem being around.

Funny you should mention that because people say all the time the reason a lot of people don't have rings was because of Jordan. Ewing is one of them. He doesn't deserve credit for winning a ring but we can say there's a good chance he'd have one right now if he didn't have to compete against the greatest of all time.

Same thing with all star births and MVPS. A lot of guys that would of been there or had MVPs in any other era didn't get them because Jordan locked them out.

TPercy wrote:Watching some of his highlights now and it's giving me a lot more confidence. Looks like he is taking advantage of his athleticism by attackig the rim and looks hella dangerous in ISO Pnr. It's also worth noting that with Melo's likely departure we will need scoring. THJR brings that.

It may just be the Knicks did a good job here and just how good Timmy was getting flew under the radar in Atl.

I still think they match but at this point I kinda hope they dont. I think this might be good for us.

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Watching some of his highlights now and it's giving me a lot more confidence. Looks like he is taking advantage of his athleticism by attackig the rim and looks hella dangerous in ISO Pnr. It's also worth noting that with Melo's likely departure we will need scoring. THJR brings that.

#s so that also. 30% of THjr's shots came from 0-3 feet where he hits 65% of them. Up from 19% and 22% the prior years. His FG% and TS% and WS/48 all uptrended over the last 3 years.

It may just be the Knicks did a good job here and just how good Timmy was getting flew under the radar in Atl.

I still think they match but at this point I kinda hope they dont. I think this might be good for us.

Me too. If we can get a decent defensive 3 in a melo deal then:
Frank
THJR
Ariza/Aminu
KP
Hernangomez

has the potential of a playoff birth.

fishmike wrote:We signed Houston to 5 years $35mm. The cap was 24.3mm that year. Houston's first year was $5mm. That counted as 20% of the cap. Houston's last year was $9mm. That counted as 25% of the cap.

THjr's deal is worth $18mm a year. Thats 18% of the cap next year. Less than we signed Houston for.

They were the same age (24).
Houston had a TS% of .576
Hardaway had a TS% of .568

Houston had a WS/48 of .576
Hardaway had a WS/48 of .568

I dont think there is any doubt Houston was more productive at the same age, but not by much. Also Houston's contract was a year longer.

Obviously Houston turned out to be a good #2 scorer. THjr's hope is based on a sample size of about 30ish games. That is the risk. Its a legit risk. Overpaying for FAs always is. But this is not the headscratching move some are making it out to be, not by a long shot.

Using 18% of your cap on a guy who is slated to be a starter and your #2 or #3 scoring option and his 24 years old. Thats a terrible mind numbingly bad contract? Hard to see that. I think this deserves some perspective. Hopefully this is it.

All that being said I think they match.

Think a better comparison is to compare Timmy to Justin Holiday. Think that was the right move.

Btw, not being a wise ass, didnt you think Grant was better than Timmy? Just rememeber that for some reason. May be mistaken. But I was one of the few guys that defended Tim and posted how well he was doing, compared to Grant, and got lots of flack for it. Not that I think he is now worth the money offered.