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Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239
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Bonn1997 wrote:Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Welpee wrote:Jmpasq wrote:umm but its a terrible trade for the Cavs. Swapping Melo and Love is a downgrade. The Cavs can do better for Love. The Knicks are not winning this trade the best we can hope for is cap space and late picks. If Melo didnt have a no trade clause he would absolutely net a decent piece or 2 but with the no trade clause the Knicks are getting crap. We could take back garbage from Cleveland and hope for an unprotected pick 5 years from now but unless Clevaland gets Melo and another legitimate frontcourt starter to replace the rebounding by Love, or maybe a young 3 and D wing they arent trading Love. They could trade Love to Sacremento for the 5th and 10th pick. Why in the world would they trade him for Melo. I know many here think Melo is better than Love therefore worth more but thats not the only thing factoring into this trade. Love has more value around the league because he is younger, signed long term, and doesnt have a no trade clause. You can create a bidding war for his services, you can float him to 29 teams in a trade. With Melo we can trade him to maybe 4. Not only that, but all those teams want him as the last piece, they aren't gutting their core for Melo. Our best option is trying to get Melo to the Lakers. They have brutal contracts we can take. By taking those toxic deals we should get rewarded a nice asset like Russel People keep saying the Cavs could more than Melo for Love. From whom? Who are these players people think Cleveland could realistically get for Love? Paul George? Not happening. Jimmy Butler? Not happening. Picks and fringe players from the Celtics? Doesn't get them over the hump now while they still have Lebron.
It depends on which Melo you think shows up in Cleveland. If it's the same guy who was terrible on defense and shot worse than every NBA team from the field last year, then practically any other trade will bring "more" than Melo. If it's Melo from a few years ago, that's another story. Plus you're forgetting, if Lebron wants Melo over Love the Cavs will cave in.
If LeBron wanted Melo over Love, it would have already happened, unless you think LeBron recently changed his mind. Losing 4-1 in the finals and getting blown out in two of those games may change a person's mind. Especially when Love only gave them 6 pts in the deciding game. Bonn cant fathom this, but a guy like Lebron isnt looking at advanced stats for his teammates... he's thinking if Melo gives him a better shot than Love he will push to get Melo. Its really that simple.
Oh I can fathom it. You can speak for yourself. I actually specifically mentioned him possibly changing his mind. LeBron is arguably the worst GM in the league. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't look at advanced stats. I still don't think he'd think that swapping Love for another all-star (or technically an all-star) puts the Cavs past the Warriors. If he does, that's great news though. He already knows keeping Love doesn't get them past the Warriors.
There are two separate issues, though. 1) Does this deal help put the Cavs past the Warriors? I'd say heck no. And 2) Does LeBron want to do this deal? There's no point in debating point #2 since none of us can read his mind.
I put my trade involving Noah and Thompson because I wanted to construct a deal that helps both teams. If we can get away with a deal that helps us and screws the Cavs, then I'm fine with that but it seems like a fantasy. If it were me and I was running the Cavs would I make the deal? Nope. But I could justify the Cavs feeling they need to shake things up and thinking Melo, in that situation as the third option, would be more likely to come up big in big spots than Love. The Cavs just cruise through the season and only care about turning it on beginning in April. This trade is strictly about helping them win 16 games in the playoffs. You gotta remember, the Melo we're used to in NYC would not be the same Melo in a Cavs uniform.
Well, that's a hypothesis. You mentioned coming up big? Love just averaged 17 and 11 in the playoffs. (And yes, I know he wasn't spectacular in every single game. No one other than Lebron and KD is!) And coming up big? Melo comes up small in the playoffs. He just takes a trillion shots, which pushes up his points.
Maybe the Cavs do it, but the point is there's no need to since they should be able to get Melo without giving up Love. The great GM don't make moves based on what guys did in the past, they have the vision to project what I guy could do for them in the future. I don't know how old you are but Red Auerbach was the master at making those type of moves.Again, I'm just offering a justification not my own personal opinion, but I could totally see Cleveland/Lebron thinking Melo, in a situation where the entire weight of the team is NOT on his shoulders, would thrive and give them more big games in big spots more consistently than they are getting from Love. I keep stressing, they are only looking for someone to be the difference in winning a few more playoff games.
For the most part, we don't disagree. The point I'm trying to emphasize is that it's foolish to swap Love for Melo when the Cavs could just add Melo and keep Love. The only way that happens is if the Knicks buy out Melo and I'm not sure how that affects the Knick's cap situation. There's no way that I can see a trade scenario where they keep Love and obtain Melo without a complicated multi-team deal. The Cavs do not have a lot of desirable assets outside of their big three and MAYBE Thompson.So if Lebron drops the hammer to insist that management get Melo on the team, moving Love is the only way I see that could happen.
I listed a trade before. It involves them giving up Thompson and taking back Noah's contract and it may involve KOQ. I'm not sure it would be necessary but it's not that hard to get a 3rd team involved and this would put them in a much better position to actually win a championship. I totally don't see how giving up Thompson and getting back Noah and KOQ makes them better. Not to mention Lebron and Noah don't get along from his Chicago days. If I'm the Knicks I make that deal in a hearbeat but Cleveland would be crazy to do this.Noah is a mess right now and has become the single worse signing or trade since Jackson arrived. At this stage of their careers, Thompson at his best is way better than KOQ at his best and this current version of Noah.
I don't know how bad the blood is between Noah and LeBron. Hmmmm. But Love is a better, more important player for them than Thompson is. You were critical of Love in the finals but Thompson averaged about 5 pts, 5 rbs a game. You can replace what he brings pretty easily from a combination of Noah, Love, KOQ, possibly LeBron, and/or another vet FA playing center. Or a mid-season trade for a center (they'll have more contracts to offer in trades then.) I'd even say they should do this deal if they're planning to buyout Noah. It's more of a perimeter oriented league and I think they'd be fine at center. They'll find a way to get by at center. They have to jump on the opportunity to get these 4 players together IMO. Well, lets start with the money not lining up. So the Cavs would need to add another player to the deal for the salaries to add up. Secondly, Noah is a mess both physically and on the court right now. Then add that he and Lebron don't get along. Throw in that Thompson is a client of Lebron's company and Lebron's urging got him the big contract. The impact in the locker room along makes this trade high risk with minimal reward potential at best. So let me ask you this, if Thompson is so bad why do we want him? And if the answer is to unload Noah, why would the Cavs want Noah? Again, please don't mistake that I would make the Love/Melo deal if I'm Cleveland. |
6/16/2017 5:46 PM
