CrushAlot wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:We wanted to sign Evan Turner last season, so I fear it would be for his salary

Why fear? His salary is bad but the pick is worth it if they have a player they really like. Depends on what pick but KOQ for Turner and #15 would be a nice move for the Knicks.

I agree with this thinking. Turner has always been destined to be a Knicks. lol. I think Lee's contract is two much. However, the smart thing might be fore the knicks to help the Blazers do a major dump of salary by taking on several contracts. I think this would work if they renounce Rose.

Knicks

Lee
Kuz
O'Quinn
#44 pick
#58 pick

for

Blazers

Turner
Leonard
Aminu
#15 pick
#20 pick
#26 pick

I dont see how Lee fits. He doesnt save them immediate money and they already have CJ and Crabb at SG. And Leonard does nothing for us. Imo take out Lee, KOQ, Leonard and Would orobably have to ask for one less pick back

I would have to look again but I believe this saves them over 15m this year and nearly 20m after the season is over. This is minus the savings the actual 1st rd picks will take up so it saves them a boat load of money

It's not a workable trade at all. $10M off from being acceptable; http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaezvo6o

I believe the Knicks would have to renounce the rights to Rose. It frees up 19 mil. I went to trade machine and plugged Rose into the deal with his current salary (21 mil) and it worked.

Okay but Phil has been very fiscally prudent in his time with the Knicks. Hard to imagine him painting the Knicks into that corner with no wiggle room. Rose in a sign and trade could net Rubio. Just saying.

Phil has been fiscally prudent at times. The Knicks would have their cap tied up but they would have a lot of trade friendly contracts. Also, I don't think there s any chance the Knicks will draw any big name free agents during Phil's tenure based on the system he wants to play and his treatment of players. Maybe he would try to package some picks to move up. The Knicks could possibly get two good starters at 8 and 15.

Phil has been fiscally responsible only to use his money irresponsibly. Also, this only ties the knicks up only if Melo doesn't get traded. If he doesn't oh well you get picks to grow with and in 3 years when Melo(2yrs), Aminu(2yrs) Noah, Turner, and Leonard come off the books you have money to add to Kp, Willy, and the picks.

fwk00 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:We wanted to sign Evan Turner last season, so I fear it would be for his salary

Why fear? His salary is bad but the pick is worth it if they have a player they really like. Depends on what pick but KOQ for Turner and #15 would be a nice move for the Knicks.

I agree with this thinking. Turner has always been destined to be a Knicks. lol. I think Lee's contract is two much. However, the smart thing might be fore the knicks to help the Blazers do a major dump of salary by taking on several contracts. I think this would work if they renounce Rose.

Knicks

Lee
Kuz
O'Quinn
#44 pick
#58 pick

for

Blazers

Turner
Leonard
Aminu
#15 pick
#20 pick
#26 pick

I dont see how Lee fits. He doesnt save them immediate money and they already have CJ and Crabb at SG. And Leonard does nothing for us. Imo take out Lee, KOQ, Leonard and Would orobably have to ask for one less pick back

I would have to look again but I believe this saves them over 15m this year and nearly 20m after the season is over. This is minus the savings the actual 1st rd picks will take up so it saves them a boat load of money

It's not a workable trade at all. $10M off from being acceptable; http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaezvo6o

I believe the Knicks would have to renounce the rights to Rose. It frees up 19 mil. I went to trade machine and plugged Rose into the deal with his current salary (21 mil) and it worked.

Okay but Phil has been very fiscally prudent in his time with the Knicks. Hard to imagine him painting the Knicks into that corner with no wiggle room. Rose in a sign and trade could net Rubio. Just saying.

Phil has been fiscally prudent at times. The Knicks would have their cap tied up but they would have a lot of trade friendly contracts. Also, I don't think there s any chance the Knicks will draw any big name free agents during Phil's tenure based on the system he wants to play and his treatment of players. Maybe he would try to package some picks to move up. The Knicks could possibly get two good starters at 8 and 15.

Phil has been fiscally responsible only to use his money irresponsibly. Also, this only ties the knicks up only if Melo doesn't get traded. If he doesn't oh well you get picks to grow with and in 3 years when Melo(2yrs), Aminu(2yrs) Noah, Turner, and Leonard come off the books you have money to add to Kp, Willy, and the picks.

Melo will not get traded for nothing and certainly not significant cap space. And as much as you are a chronic critic of PJ, PJ *has* positioned the team to claim draft picks, carry a bad contract or two, and still have some room for FAs. Taking on three rather pedestrian players in Turner, Leonard, and Aminu is exactly the kind of deal that has plagued the pre-PJ GMs - just enough talent to be mediocre. There's no point in drafting for youth with high ceilings to have them nailed to the bench watching mediocrity.

This idea that there's a happy ending at the end of a Melo contract is fantasy at its wildest. Are we as fans expected to slog through two more years of Melo being Melo. Who's up for *that*?

We may well be stuck with Melo for the short-term but Phil I think turned a corner last season and has no intention of doing that again. Nor do I think Horny will do it again.

There are sensible, even bold moves that can be negotiated but I think at the end of the summer the Knicks will be stocked with youth, potential, some vets, and a fresh start. This is not to imply everything will be rosy but the trajectory will be a much more dedicated system roster than last season.

That is my hope too. Get some prospects, let'em struggle. Draft near the top again next year (Porter, Doncic) and hope that last injection of youth will turn the team from a bad young team to a up and coming young team.

TripleThreat wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:Ian Begley: The Knicks have talked to the Portland Trailblazers about acquiring one of Portland’s first-round picks, a source confirms to ESPN. The Knicks have workouts scheduled with at least one player pegged for a mid to late first-round pick in UNC’s Justin Jackson and are looking to acquire a second first-rounder to add to the pick they currently own – the No. 8 overall pick. Portland owns the 15th, 20th and 26th overall picks. The Knicks and Blazers discussions were first reported by the Sporting News.
– via ESPN

Great news! Go Phil, get it done!

Practical trades, i.e. ones that stand some logical chance of happening, will either be Win/Win (both sides have logical incentive to make the deal) or rarely, Lose/Lose ( i.e. Gilbert Arenas for Rashard Lewis, i.e. a bad deal for a bad deal, i.e. a "challenge trade")

Just about every Blazers/Knicks trade scenario offers a Win/Lose. The 8th overall pick is worth more than the three first rounders the Blazers have. The Knicks really have nothing worth the 15th pick outside of trying to convert/split the 8th pick somehow. If anyone thinks OQuinn and/or Thomas will do it, consider the Blazers would only make a deal if the Knicks were the BEST OFFER out of all offers from all other teams once those picks go up for sale. Can the Blazers do better than OQuinn and/or Thomas and/or Lee? I think they can.

Evan Turner can likely be moved for a positive asset OR as a challenge trade. I don't think the Blazers are going to be under the gun to move a positive asset to dump him.

Justin Jackson, my best guess, will move before 15 in the draft. A long range shooting wing has tremendous value in the league and some will see his high floor as more desirable than some raw guys with a perceived higher ceiling.

Lance Thomas, IMHO, is a net negative contract. I just don't see the trade value in place that others see in him.

Evan Turner did 9/3/3 and is owed about 17 mil next year. The Blazer are one of the highest payrolls in the league but are a 8th seed that got swept and will need to give Nurkic a Substantial contract next year.

So this trade doesn't have to be win/win on the surface. The Knicks get the better package because we are basically suffering Cap wise for Portland's mistake.

Cartman718 wrote:

franco12 wrote:I'm all for adding draft picks - I'm a little weary of taking on salary unless we know we can move Melo - we already have one bad contract on the books in Noah- hate to add - not because I think we can add some great free agent - but because of the loss in flexibility to add niche players down the line.

in our rebuilding phase, yes...salary adds unless its a marquee player don't make sense.
this offseason i expect knicks to sign some Lee type of player who can move without the ball and pass

none of the top FAs are coming here i feel.

To be honest, melo hasn't and will never attract a big name free agent... who would wanna play next to a guy who calls his own ISO plays and plays at 50% on defense. Players want to play with porzingod we just gotta get rid of old baggage first...

But regardless I'm all for getting as many picks as possible in this draft. I have a feeling Phil gets at least one mid first... I'd be talking to melo right now about the possibility of playing with lillard and Cj

TripleThreat wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:Ian Begley: The Knicks have talked to the Portland Trailblazers about acquiring one of Portland’s first-round picks, a source confirms to ESPN. The Knicks have workouts scheduled with at least one player pegged for a mid to late first-round pick in UNC’s Justin Jackson and are looking to acquire a second first-rounder to add to the pick they currently own – the No. 8 overall pick. Portland owns the 15th, 20th and 26th overall picks. The Knicks and Blazers discussions were first reported by the Sporting News.
– via ESPN

Great news! Go Phil, get it done!

Practical trades, i.e. ones that stand some logical chance of happening, will either be Win/Win (both sides have logical incentive to make the deal) or rarely, Lose/Lose ( i.e. Gilbert Arenas for Rashard Lewis, i.e. a bad deal for a bad deal, i.e. a "challenge trade")

Just about every Blazers/Knicks trade scenario offers a Win/Lose. The 8th overall pick is worth more than the three first rounders the Blazers have. The Knicks really have nothing worth the 15th pick outside of trying to convert/split the 8th pick somehow. If anyone thinks OQuinn and/or Thomas will do it, consider the Blazers would only make a deal if the Knicks were the BEST OFFER out of all offers from all other teams once those picks go up for sale. Can the Blazers do better than OQuinn and/or Thomas and/or Lee? I think they can.

Evan Turner can likely be moved for a positive asset OR as a challenge trade. I don't think the Blazers are going to be under the gun to move a positive asset to dump him.

Justin Jackson, my best guess, will move before 15 in the draft. A long range shooting wing has tremendous value in the league and some will see his high floor as more desirable than some raw guys with a perceived higher ceiling.

Lance Thomas, IMHO, is a net negative contract. I just don't see the trade value in place that others see in him.

Trading is not about winning its about risk and financial liability at the point deals are being made. Yes, of course there's a consideration of assets fitting a useful purpose and their upside.

Your mistake is to evaluate potential deals by your like or dislike of the players alone. And so rather than acknowledge that the only tradable assets the Knicks have that correspond to Portland assets are Lee, O'Quinn, Kuz and so on, you dig your heels in and insist they are all pretty much of NO value while underperforming and grossly overpaid Portland assets are nothing but upside AND that mid-range picks are not the crap shoot that they historically are but rather guaranteed rotation quality players.

Lee and O'Quinn are not superstars but they are reasonably paid, fine rotation worthy, and hard-working assets. You can't trade the two of them for LeBron but you can't logically argue that Portland would be getting ripped of if the Knicks took on Crabbe's contract and required a couple of picks for the trouble - there's nothing absurd about the proposition at all.

Furthermore, you assert that there are "better" deals out there for Portland. Maybe there are. But it won't be because in a league drowning in look-alike second-tier guards that another team is lining up to assume the fiscal liability both Crabbe and Turner represent.

And, you also discount that Detroit and others will gladly dump a pick to rid themselves of over-spending on second-tier talent.

And if your argument is that Thomas is a negative net value how can you, with a straight face, not mention Crabbe's foot surgery as a net negative reason for a team to assume his contract?

Justin Jackson is one of many Knick potential draft targets. Frank Jackson, IMO alone, might be a mid-draft target if the Knicks grab Monk at 8.

As for Harkless rumors, I don't get it beyond Harkless's camp advocating something like that. I don't see what he adds to a rebuild.

TripleThreat wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:Ian Begley: The Knicks have talked to the Portland Trailblazers about acquiring one of Portland’s first-round picks, a source confirms to ESPN. The Knicks have workouts scheduled with at least one player pegged for a mid to late first-round pick in UNC’s Justin Jackson and are looking to acquire a second first-rounder to add to the pick they currently own – the No. 8 overall pick. Portland owns the 15th, 20th and 26th overall picks. The Knicks and Blazers discussions were first reported by the Sporting News.
– via ESPN

Great news! Go Phil, get it done!

Practical trades, i.e. ones that stand some logical chance of happening, will either be Win/Win (both sides have logical incentive to make the deal) or rarely, Lose/Lose ( i.e. Gilbert Arenas for Rashard Lewis, i.e. a bad deal for a bad deal, i.e. a "challenge trade")

Just about every Blazers/Knicks trade scenario offers a Win/Lose. The 8th overall pick is worth more than the three first rounders the Blazers have. The Knicks really have nothing worth the 15th pick outside of trying to convert/split the 8th pick somehow. If anyone thinks OQuinn and/or Thomas will do it, consider the Blazers would only make a deal if the Knicks were the BEST OFFER out of all offers from all other teams once those picks go up for sale. Can the Blazers do better than OQuinn and/or Thomas and/or Lee? I think they can.

Evan Turner can likely be moved for a positive asset OR as a challenge trade. I don't think the Blazers are going to be under the gun to move a positive asset to dump him.

Justin Jackson, my best guess, will move before 15 in the draft. A long range shooting wing has tremendous value in the league and some will see his high floor as more desirable than some raw guys with a perceived higher ceiling.

Lance Thomas, IMHO, is a net negative contract. I just don't see the trade value in place that others see in him.

Would you rather have one of:
DSJ
M.Monk
F.Nitty
or some combo of
#15--J.Jackson/D.Mitchell/OG Anunoby
#20--H.Giles/T.Ferguson/Frank Jackson/L.Kennard
#26--J.Bell/C.Swanigan/R.Kurucs/D.Bacon

I used NBA Draft.Net's mock draft to see who was available at each pick but you can put whoever you want in each slot cause there's a lot of players sitting there at each pick that are intriguing players. This would be a tough choice for me to make but it sure would be nice having 3 players that all could be good starters in the league over one even though there's a better chance of that one player being the better player because of where we got him at pick #8. Every draft there's players drafted in the middle to late part of the 1st round that end up being better NBA players than some of the players drafted in the lottery.

nykshaknbake wrote:Harkless and crabbe have 3 years left on horrific contracts. If they were picking higher, itd be worth it, but no way is it worth taking more than 1 of these for pick 15.

The Harkless bottleneck I have is that a year or two ago, Harkless was advertisng himself as a Melo-lite clone. I can imagine the conversation in MSG in which someone suggests to Phil, "let's get another Melo". Been there, done that.

You also have to remember that these mid-lottery picks are as good as powerball tickets in terms of getting a solid return. If you are going to gamble based on taking on a contract as undesirable as Crabbe's then you have to get back a lot more than 15.

In the trade I suggested earlier, I added Connaughton to the deal because he's a hustle, decent system fit, likely second-team player who at least has more utility than a failed lottery pick at this point in time. In other words, if Crabbe is not productive and the picks are D-Leaguers you really need *somebody* to point to who can justify or minimize the risk of the transaction.

I think the other thing to keep in mind is if, in fact, Portland is attempting to balance its books - tit for tat trades that don't move the needle simply don't get Portland down that road. At least one of Crabbe or Turner is likely moving. The rest of the roster is nickels and dimes in relative comparison AND the rest of the roster are more productive per dollar.