dacash wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty easy. Great players like Kevin Mchale Manu Ginobli --who were easily just as good or better than Melo were more than welcome to taking on the important 6th man role. First we should give Carmelo a chance to digest the idea before bashing him. If he comes back and says no then we kindly ask him to forward more landing spots for a trade. WE(the Knicks) tried to work with him to make sure he can have a significant contribution the way the Knicks want it and he declined(which in other jobs would get you fired). But lets give him the benefit of the doubt and see is he would embrace the role first--maybe he will. Its much better keeping him in a role like this THAN trading him in a deal like we did for Patrick Ewing. That was scattered and poor. If he fails to comply with either the premise of being a 6th man or adding more trading spots we inform him that we'd like him to stay home until the point we can achieve a trade that will be sufficient for the Knicks with NO timetable set on it. NO buyout is coming.

BULLSHIT. We the Knicks have tried to get him to embrace various roles over the years since D'Antoni was here. And he has refused all of them from playing the 4, to bringing the ball up, to making passes, to playing in the flow of the offense. This **** needs to stop. We need to bench his ass or cut home lose. Preferably the latter. I don't want this selfish me first diva anywhere near our players.

when melo leaves what are you going to change your name to?

ImpeachTrump

BRIGGS wrote:So if a better player would accept that role--why wouldnt he? If not he can be suspended for insubordination--at the end of the day hes an employee.

The Knicks cannot functionally bench Carmelo Anthony.

It will be seen and treated as if the Knicks are leveraging him to waive his NTC. This is not simply an issue of Melo being a selfish anti team shotjacker, this rides into BEING A TRUE LABOR ISSUE.

The Players Association doesn't really care about Melo. They know Melo is a shotjacker and a millstone around the neck of his team. But he is part of their NBAPA, so they must openly defend him, even if they know it's stupid, because of the implications of the NTC and how it might be applied in the future.

He is a morale killing selfish diva of a player.

He's also a future Hall of Famer and an All Star and an Olympian represented by one of the most powerful sports agents in the free world.

The NBA's almost ridiculous officiating happens in part because big money is spent to see the big name players on the court. The league and the networks don't want to see a big name player rested or suspended during a nationally televised game. Think about it, this is the same league that fined the Spurs for benching starters to rest aging players for the playoffs, acknowledging the regular season is meaningless for top level teams. But it was for a nationally televised game.

If Melo is healthy, and as long as he doesn't start killing people like Aaron Hernandez, the Knicks can't just decide to not start him during games. The implications move far past just want Melo does and clearly does not do on the court.

Trading Melo is not about making a bad deal into a good deal. A good deal is NOT POSSIBLE.

It's about taking a HUGE bad deal and breaking it up into much smaller bad deal parts. Moving Melo is pretty impossible, possibly moving Austin Rivers or Luol Deng later is much much easier, not simple, but not this level of impossible later.

This is not surgery, it's triage, it's damage control. Anyone thinking the Knicks are going to get positive assets for Melo in a trade are pretty much insane at this point. This is addition by subtraction, just get this dude off the roster.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:So if a better player would accept that role--why wouldnt he? If not he can be suspended for insubordination--at the end of the day hes an employee.

The Knicks cannot functionally bench Carmelo Anthony.

It will be seen and treated as if the Knicks are leveraging him to waive his NTC. This is not simply an issue of Melo being a selfish anti team shotjacker, this rides into BEING A TRUE LABOR ISSUE.

The Players Association doesn't really care about Melo. They know Melo is a shotjacker and a millstone around the neck of his team. But he is part of their NBAPA, so they must openly defend him, even if they know it's stupid, because of the implications of the NTC and how it might be applied in the future.

He is a morale killing selfish diva of a player.

He's also a future Hall of Famer and an All Star and an Olympian represented by one of the most powerful sports agents in the free world.

The NBA's almost ridiculous officiating happens in part because big money is spent to see the big name players on the court. The league and the networks don't want to see a big name player rested or suspended during a nationally televised game. Think about it, this is the same league that fined the Spurs for benching starters to rest aging players for the playoffs, acknowledging the regular season is meaningless for top level teams. But it was for a nationally televised game.

If Melo is healthy, and as long as he doesn't start killing people like Aaron Hernandez, the Knicks can't just decide to not start him during games. The implications move far past just want Melo does and clearly does not do on the court.

Trading Melo is not about making a bad deal into a good deal. A good deal is NOT POSSIBLE.

It's about taking a HUGE bad deal and breaking it up into much smaller bad deal parts. Moving Melo is pretty impossible, possibly moving Austin Rivers or Luol Deng later is much much easier, not simple, but not this level of impossible later.

This is not surgery, it's triage, it's damage control. Anyone thinking the Knicks are going to get positive assets for Melo in a trade are pretty much insane at this point. This is addition by subtraction, just get this dude off the roster.

BRIGGS wrote:Why don't we restructure his contributions as a sixth man? Many good players develop into solid 6th men as they get older. What exactly would be wrong with 25 minutes of Carmelo off the bench? Most 6th men are brought into score--that would be putting Melo against 2nd unit players--limiting his minutes should enhance his efficiency levels and take the pressure of carrying the team off his back. Why trade Anthony for a bad deal? Unless it makes sense--make him our 6th man.

yellowboy90 wrote:Luol Deng Play and contract is his NTC only dumb gms would trade for him thinking they can sell him off on another team.

TripleThreat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I agree with most of what you wrote, but Luol Deng? That adds $19 mil to our 19-20 payroll. We can't make a trade that would be worse than waiving Melo. Otherwise we should just waive him.

Given Melo's massive salary, the trade kicker and the NTC, the Knicks are likely only going to trade him with at least one bad contract coming back. Likely more than one to be honest.

Is Deng an ugly contract? Yes, but at least he can play the wing and frankly the Knicks don't need another horrible contract center on the roster, I recognize Mozgov or a guy like Asik are ugly deals as well, but at least someone like Deng doesn't stack all the Knicks bad contracts in one place. A guy like Deng does not have a NTC and while his salary is ugly, it's not Melo NTC super size ugly. At least there is a chance Deng can be moved again in some fashion.

I don't see waiving Melo as a viable option for either side. Knicks would only do it if there was a decent cash savings in play. I.E. a buyout of some kind. Melo has never left real money on the table. Melo doesn't seem to care about winning, literally at all. To waive him at full salary would mean the situation got so toxic that the Knicks would be best served by gutting Melo in the press. Who are we kidding, both sides are hitting each other in the press right now. The Phil Sucks and Melo Sucks articles aren't coming from nowhere.

The NBAPA and the owners and league administration don't want a waiving situation. Every time a player guts his team by lack of effort/commitment, the owners beat down the players in the next labor war. Eddy Curry getting drunk, Baron Davis getting fat, Biedrins dogging it so he can go clubbing, Rip Hamilton mocking his coach, it all adds up and the owners want revenge and they stick it to the players. Taking Melo out of NY means taking the only marketing draw for the team out of the network/broadcast rotation.

Melo is toxic if he stays. The question is what amount of toxic if he goes can the team tolerate that's less than the harm inflicted if he stays.

Ship is sinking. You've got two kids. One seat on a lifeboat. There are no good solutions here. There's picking one misery or the other. Which misery is going to gut you down less. This is a Melo trade in a nutshell. It's not a question of ugly or not, it's a question of how ugly will it have to get. I wish it was different, but it's not.

Theres no need for all this what if stuff. Melo needs to be cut or told to stay home. We will pay hiits salary but he can't do anymore harm to the Knicks with his toxic presence. And if he says he wants to play, it's up to him to waive his NTC and trade kicker. Then if he does, that trade him to whatever team will give us picks.

meloshouldgo wrote:

dacash wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty easy. Great players like Kevin Mchale Manu Ginobli --who were easily just as good or better than Melo were more than welcome to taking on the important 6th man role. First we should give Carmelo a chance to digest the idea before bashing him. If he comes back and says no then we kindly ask him to forward more landing spots for a trade. WE(the Knicks) tried to work with him to make sure he can have a significant contribution the way the Knicks want it and he declined(which in other jobs would get you fired). But lets give him the benefit of the doubt and see is he would embrace the role first--maybe he will. Its much better keeping him in a role like this THAN trading him in a deal like we did for Patrick Ewing. That was scattered and poor. If he fails to comply with either the premise of being a 6th man or adding more trading spots we inform him that we'd like him to stay home until the point we can achieve a trade that will be sufficient for the Knicks with NO timetable set on it. NO buyout is coming.

BULLSHIT. We the Knicks have tried to get him to embrace various roles over the years since D'Antoni was here. And he has refused all of them from playing the 4, to bringing the ball up, to making passes, to playing in the flow of the offense. This **** needs to stop. We need to bench his ass or cut home lose. Preferably the latter. I don't want this selfish me first diva anywhere near our players.

when melo leaves what are you going to change your name to?

ImpeachTrump

#Covfefe (I stand corrected)

Problem is the knicks as an organization have no culture here or any carte Blanche with the players. Toxicicity and mistrust everywhere it's just a **** show here.

Sad or crazy thing is the knicks aren't even in the worst of places they have some pieces in place but nothing ever grows here. Every time I get hopeful it goes bad. KP had a glow about him early now he walks out on Phil... wtf.

Yeah melo could very well he perfectly suited for 6th man role...good luck seeing it happen.

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I agree with most of what you wrote, but Luol Deng? That adds $19 mil to our 19-20 payroll. We can't make a trade that would be worse than waiving Melo. Otherwise we should just waive him.

Given Melo's massive salary, the trade kicker and the NTC, the Knicks are likely only going to trade him with at least one bad contract coming back. Likely more than one to be honest.

Is Deng an ugly contract? Yes, but at least he can play the wing and frankly the Knicks don't need another horrible contract center on the roster, I recognize Mozgov or a guy like Asik are ugly deals as well, but at least someone like Deng doesn't stack all the Knicks bad contracts in one place. A guy like Deng does not have a NTC and while his salary is ugly, it's not Melo NTC super size ugly. At least there is a chance Deng can be moved again in some fashion.

I don't see waiving Melo as a viable option for either side. Knicks would only do it if there was a decent cash savings in play. I.E. a buyout of some kind. Melo has never left real money on the table. Melo doesn't seem to care about winning, literally at all. To waive him at full salary would mean the situation got so toxic that the Knicks would be best served by gutting Melo in the press. Who are we kidding, both sides are hitting each other in the press right now. The Phil Sucks and Melo Sucks articles aren't coming from nowhere.

The NBAPA and the owners and league administration don't want a waiving situation. Every time a player guts his team by lack of effort/commitment, the owners beat down the players in the next labor war. Eddy Curry getting drunk, Baron Davis getting fat, Biedrins dogging it so he can go clubbing, Rip Hamilton mocking his coach, it all adds up and the owners want revenge and they stick it to the players. Taking Melo out of NY means taking the only marketing draw for the team out of the network/broadcast rotation.

Melo is toxic if he stays. The question is what amount of toxic if he goes can the team tolerate that's less than the harm inflicted if he stays.

Ship is sinking. You've got two kids. One seat on a lifeboat. There are no good solutions here. There's picking one misery or the other. Which misery is going to gut you down less. This is a Melo trade in a nutshell. It's not a question of ugly or not, it's a question of how ugly will it have to get. I wish it was different, but it's not.

Theres no need for all this what if stuff. Melo needs to be cut or told to stay home. We will pay hiits salary but he can't do anymore harm to the Knicks with his toxic presence. And if he says he wants to play, it's up to him to waive his NTC and trade kicker. Then if he does, that trade him to whatever team will give us picks.

I think an organization would have big problems with the league if they punish a player because he won't waive the NTC they gave him when they negotiated his contract. Maybe that would be enough for Silver to force Dolan to move on from Phil. The Knicks can waive Melo but they owe him over 54 mil for the next two years. Melo still has value in the league but the size of his contract, the NTC and the trade kicker make his deal almost impossible to move. It was a horrible contract to give out. It can't be fixed but trashing Melo in his presser didn't make things easier for Phil. At this point I don't see Melo doing Phil any favors. Prior to the presser, I think Phil might have been able to work with Leon Rose on a buy out where Melo had a deal in place with another team after he cleared waivers that would save the Knicks some money. Now I think he stays, gets an extra 9 mil if he is traded or gets a full buyout and then signs a new deal and makes more. Melo will be fine. The Knicks organization will continue to have to try to overcome the mistakes Phil makes.

Stop. Crush you usually post legitimate criticisms

But seriously silver will not and should not intervene.

Melo is getting paid. End of story

Players have thrown towels in coaches faces. About damn time the team gives melo a towel and says earn your minutes

Sinix wrote:So is there a certain level of bad play or disregard for the game plan that would make it justifiable to sit Melo or can Melo chuck up 10% FG% and the Knicks still have to start him because he has a NTC?

This conversation is silly. As long as the Knicks pay Melo, they can figure him into the game plan any which way they want.