knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I ThoughtJH had lass the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

This....Not to mention they play in the West. I believe the T Wolves were close to .500 vs the East..maybe a few games under....They also beat the Warriors and showed flashes...

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

This....Not to mention they play in the West. I believe the T Wolves were close to . 500..maybe a few games under....They also beat the Warriors and showed flashes...

They were 9-9 after the all-star break until they started tanking for draft position. They also tank better than us, as they lost their final six games. If the Knicks had lost their last six games they'd be in sole possession of the fourth spot in the draft, instead they finished 3-3. Actually they went 4-3 in their last 7 games.

nyknickzingis wrote:Was watching a clip on this from the guys at First Take commenting about KP's post game reaction, seems it was this game they were talking about. I believe KP's comments where he called out the confusion of the team from top to bottom, the coaches, the players, management, it was after this game. The guys on first take said that it should have come from Melo, who is seen as the leader of the team. KP at 21 in his second year should not be the one who is stepping up to the press and challenging the coaches and players to end the confusion. It should be Melo.

Seems that all this is just evidence that Melo has never been a good leader. Instead of rallying the troops, instead of pumping them up and getting them to play great as a team, he's arguing with coaches about BS when they are absolutely right (atleast in that game they were right to call out the effort). As a pro, you have to have effort. Did we not see the effort when Baker and Sasha started games? Same coaching staff. The coaches were absolutely right to call out the players effort in that game. Melo should have stepped up and said, ok I'll get my guys to step up on D, the effort. How about you guys get on page with us and run the offense the way we want (or whatever issue Melo has with them).

As shown with the D'Antoni era, you can change the coaches all you want. Melo does not usually mesh well with most coaches. George Karl. D'Antoni. Hornachek. Guess they all suck.

My first thought is, things have to be really bad for KP to say that. In regards to Melo, isn't communication supposed to happen in the locker room? I would go they other way and say not making a comment to the press when you are really angry is the smart, mature way to handle things. Also, this was a big deal because it hasn't happened in the past that I am aware of.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:According to Bondy this was the same game where KP made his top down comment. What a mess.

The good thing is that the younger players realize what is going on. They actually listen to what the coaches say and to the best of their ability they try to execute. This has to be the same approach from every single player, especially the most talented players. If Melo isn't going to bust it on D then what does that teach everyone else? The same goes for Rose. You can't have a couple of lazy team stars leading the way. I guarantee that if Kawhi Leonard was on this squad with a CP3 they would be much better examples to the younger players. Melo and Rose simply don't give the team that kind of example to follow.

crzymdups wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If they do execute a trade for Anthony, it will be one of the most important transactions in Jackson's presidency. Some executives around the league believe that Anthony's trade value would be higher if Jackson hadn't endorsed a column that was critical of Anthony in February.

"That one was surprising," said an executive of a team who spoke to the Knicks about an Anthony trade. "I think [Jackson] really hurt himself there."

Other front offices speak to THEIR best interests, not the Knicks, why would they say anything else other than Melo's value is tanked because of Phil? To say otherwise would be to making the statement that they'd be willing to pay more than bad contracts for Melo. It's in their interest to focus on Melo's value being low and Phil Jackson being the reason. Why? Because if they trade for him, they don't want to openly discuss all of Melo's issues as a player. IF they don't trade for him, they still have no reason to talk about all his issues as a player. Melo's trade value is tanked because of his huge salary, his age, and his refusal to play actual team basketball. No other front office exec will bring that up, they don't need to, it doesn't help them.

However none of them have to deal with the NTC. Jackson does.

How does Jackson hurt himself here? He knows Melo's trade value is tanked whether he says something or says nothing. But he knows sayings something in public will shame Melo and the more you focus the negative spotlight on him and his negative play by choice, the more it hurts the only thing he cares about, his public image and branding.

Melo's trade value is tanked whether Jackson said something or said nothing. Folks here, some want to believe otherwise if they want, but it's not in line with the NBA marketplace environment.

You don't think a similar tactic effected what the Kings got back for Cousins this year? Many here said that was a terrible trade for the Kings at the time.

Players talk, coach's talk, GM's talk, advance scouts are at games, they are looking at nuances like body language, time out huddles and when play goes wrong. No newspaper comment can speak louder than actual play. Calls to coaches in the fraternity of what Cousins is like in the locker room and to ex team mates can tall a far greater story than anything thing the Kings said.

Phil's comments are not news. Everything that is discussed about melo's play over the last 7 years was depicted by his play in Denver, so its no shock to anyone. Even Karl long ago was publicly dissing Melo not as a person, but his play on the court.

Think the knicks had no idea of his play in denver? of course they did, video and scouts are paid to break this stuff down.
Anyone thinking about trading for him knows the deal.
its not like any great secret was let out. When a fan thinks somehow phil or any Team exec complains about a player its like they are breaking some family secret. IF we know this as fans, trust me, EVERYONE who matters knows!!!!

YEs, Melo holds the ball too long and can break the offensive flow.

Player doesnt give max effort. Points finger. Assess blame. Coaches say when you give max effort you can say something.

Good for Kurt. I am sure that went right to Phil. Finally someone said hey maybe it isnt the organization. Maybe your just to slow and dont play hard enough to be as great as you think you are. Its done. This guy needs to go. This is what you want KP/Willy around? I would rather have Ron Baker and be in the lottery. This guy is a mental midget.

Melo's effort is dictated by his interpretation of the organization's direction. Can we please get this phucking loser out of here? Now?

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

That's kind of the point. A team with 2 #1s and 5-6 lotto picks hold our same record and are struggling to find their way. Yet Phil with not even a quarter of those resources is expected to field a playoff team.

For one thing, most of our wins were driven by Rose and Melo and Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas - veterans that the Wolves don't have and need to add to flesh out their roster.

If the Knicks are really talking about rebuilding, they'll probably get rid of Melo and Rose and maybe even CLee... this roster probably wins more like 20 games over the course of a full season, like the Nets.

The Timberwolves have amassed a large quality of talent. Some of it may need to be moved - maybe Wiggins or LaVine or both... but those are assets that can be used to improve the team. Just because they haven't figured it out doesn't mean they aren't ahead of us.

I guess that's what I'm confused about with this thread - are we talking about rebuilding or team performance this season? The Wolves were tanking to end the year. They lost their last six games. I wish the Knicks had been able to do that instead of going 3-3, we'd have the 4th lotto slot insteand of 6/7.

We were supposedly tanking and a bunch of people here, I think, are overreacting to winning some games with the kids to end the year. This happens to a lot of bad teams in April. Other teams are exhausted and come in taking you lightly because they see you're tanking and they get beat. The Nets won 6 out of 12 to end the year, the Lakers finished winning 5 in a row, even the Suns won some.

Every single year around the league there is fool's gold in April. Ramon Sessions once averaged like 12 assists a game for the month of April. Thank god he didn't do that here, you guys would be talking about not needing to draft a point guard. Oh wait, some already did that with Ron Baker.

Look, I like Ron, but if you guys are looking at his April and deciding he's a starter you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise in November.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Yeah. Not sure why the Wolves keep being compared to the Knicks.

Spoiler alert.....

They have the same record....

KP and Kat came in the same draft....

Both teams trying to rebuild

😧

Spoiler alert - the Wolves are much farther along in their rebuild. We have one young first rounder on our team. They have five or six. They're going to be good much faster and I question the basketball knowledge of anyone who doesn't see that.

That's kind of the point. A team with 2 #1s and 5-6 lotto picks hold our same record and are struggling to find their way. Yet Phil with not even a quarter of those resources is expected to field a playoff team.

For one thing, most of our wins were driven by Rose and Melo and Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas - veterans that the Wolves don't have and need to add to flesh out their roster.

If the Knicks are really talking about rebuilding, they'll probably get rid of Melo and Rose and maybe even CLee... this roster probably wins more like 20 games over the course of a full season, like the Nets.

The Timberwolves have amassed a large quality of talent. Some of it may need to be moved - maybe Wiggins or LaVine or both... but those are assets that can be used to improve the team. Just because they haven't figured it out doesn't mean they aren't ahead of us.

I guess that's what I'm confused about with this thread - are we talking about rebuilding or team performance this season? The Wolves were tanking to end the year. They lost their last six games. I wish the Knicks had been able to do that instead of going 3-3, we'd have the 4th lotto slot insteand of 6/7.

We were supposedly tanking and a bunch of people here, I think, are overreacting to winning some games with the kids to end the year. This happens to a lot of bad teams in April. Other teams are exhausted and come in taking you lightly because they see you're tanking and they get beat. The Nets won 6 out of 12 to end the year, the Lakers finished winning 5 in a row, even the Suns won some.

Every single year around the league there is fool's gold in April. Ramon Sessions once averaged like 12 assists a game for the month of April. Thank god he didn't do that here, you guys would be talking about not needing to draft a point guard. Oh wait, some already did that with Ron Baker.

Look, I like Ron, but if you guys are looking at his April and deciding he's a starter you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise in November.

Did you actually watch the TWolves games? Cuz I did and they were not Tanking. Thibs was on the edge of exploding in those games. They had a chance to win many of their games. They were going hard but their defense was HORRID and they often made poor decisions on offense. The TWolves do have a lot of talent and they need more time to mature, develop and learn how to win.

The Knicks will probably never be completely devoid of any vets. Phil is going to have some vet leadership on the roster. He just doesn't want Melo since he disrupts the Team Flow.