crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.

This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:

1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.

2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.

3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.

4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.

5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.

Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.

I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..

who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.

This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:

1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.

2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.

3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.

4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.

5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.

Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.

I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..

who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season

I think there's a very real danger that Melo will want out now but there might not be a place we can move him. Maybe he'll take a buyout? I can't see the Cavs going for him. Clippers seem like the only realistic option. Maybe Miami? Maybe Chicago?

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.

This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:

1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.

2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.

3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.

4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.

5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.

Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.

I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..

who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season

I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.

Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.

This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:

1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.

2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.

3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.

4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.

5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.

Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.

I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..

who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season

I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.

Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.

yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.

I think the trade kicker is a one time bonus paid by the team that is trading the player...I'm not sure if that bonus counts towards the acquiring team's cap...I doubt it..

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/08/players-with-trade-kickers-2.html

August 4th 2016 at 10:38pm CST by Eddie Scarito
Trade kickers are contractual clauses that pay players a bonus when they’re traded, and they represent one of the tools teams have to differentiate their free agent offers from the deals competing clubs put on the table. According to the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), the bonus must be paid by the team that trades the player, rather than the acquiring team.

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.

This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:

1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.

2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.

3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.

4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.

5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.

Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.

I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..

who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season

I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.

Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.

yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.

I think the trade kicker is a one time bonus paid by the team that is trading the player...I'm not sure if that bonus counts towards the acquiring team's cap...I doubt it..

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/08/players-with-trade-kickers-2.html

August 4th 2016 at 10:38pm CST by Eddie Scarito
Trade kickers are contractual clauses that pay players a bonus when they’re traded, and they represent one of the tools teams have to differentiate their free agent offers from the deals competing clubs put on the table. According to the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), the bonus must be paid by the team that trades the player, rather than the acquiring team.

CrushAlot wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers

https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers

In a nut shell trading melo to the clippers would make for another 50 loss season, JC/rivers/wesley

Then who's you starting sf, no decent FA is signing on to play with a lottery like roster, not even second tier

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers

https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers

In a nut shell trading melo to the clippers would make for another 50 loss season, JC/rivers/wesley

Then who's you starting sf, no decent FA is signing on to play with a lottery like roster, not even second tier

I'd be willing to bet the Knicks win more than this year. The main issue has been poor defense. If the Knicks can improve on the defensive end minus poor defenders like Melo and Rose they can make progress in the W/L column.

It's a rebuild so you're expectations aren't for immediate greatness. I fail to see why we can't adjust our expectations to that of a development mode. I'm willing to guess most would understand the new reality with a mostly young roster.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/04/13/city-game-knicks-nets-season-wrapup/

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.

This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:

1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.

2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.

3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.

4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.

5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.

Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.

+ 1,0000

What the N'Dour hater said.....