TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

Hernangomez/Plumlee
Porzingis/NDour
Kuzminskas
Baker
Randle

We had 7 of our players either rooks or sophmores. 6 rooks to be exact. We had a few players still in the very early part of their careers as Holiday and O'Quinn I believe have 4 or less years of NBA experience.

It's not like this team was loaded with veterans. It's just that the veterans on the team underperformed (especially Noah) and that the younger players are not good enough at this juncture to put the team in the playoffs.

A rebuild is already happening, people just don't see it because Phil isn't stacking up players with lottery draft picks (because for one he only has had 1 available to him so far).

We add a lottery pick and two second round picks, and bring back the above 7 players, that's about 9 players who are either rookies/sophmores and KP is still only 22 in his third year in his league. That's an all out re-build in my opinion, especially if you trade Melo.

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Love the "Grass is always greener"..........

Flip was on to something a few years back when they bought him back and they decided to rebuild. Its taken them a while. I'd have to say Knick fans love this idea but in fact you have not digrested their blunders and lost the patience because of it. Lets be real, most knick fans like the idea of a rebuild but really can't stomach it. To do so means the team would have made awful blunders in the past, had to lose a lot of games, got ride of dead weight, and tank.

To read a statement such as yours knowing Scott Layden would be the GM is very funny stuff!!!

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Love the "Grass is always greener"..........

Flip was on to something a few years back when they bought him back and they decided to rebuild. Its taken them a while. I'd have to say Knick fans love this idea but in fact you have not digrested their blunders and lost the patience because of it. Lets be real, most knick fans like the idea of a rebuild but really can't stomach it. To do so means the team would have made awful blunders in the past, had to lose a lot of games, got ride of dead weight, and tank.

To read a statement such as yours knowing Scott Layden would be the GM is very funny stuff!!!

The great thing about Phil is that he has been accidentally tanking while trying to win. So while the rebuild hasn't been the intent of the front office it has been a nice plan b. I don't know how or why Layden keeps being brought into the thread. Is this thread about trying to find a worst pres/gm then Phil? Vlade is the only guy that might fit your argument of guys that are worse in their job in my opinion.

ONe more time:

Layden was the Spurs Assistant GM. He was hired by Pop and Buford. That says a lot. He is the GM of the Wolves. So when I read this after many gushing about the wolves I think that's funny as shyt.
Scotty had not done a good job here and Dolan was pulling a lot of strings. Its funny that Isiah comes in with great fanfare and leverages the team in the worst way, a salary total that as off the freaking charts, and blew first round picks. Layden was credited with having scouted Stocken and Malone (team effort of course!) So Layden is booted, Isiah is booted, Walsh was disgraced, Grunfeld did a credible job and now The Mills and PHils run the roost. Meanwhile Scotty is vetted by Pop and Buford to be deputy dog. Perhaps if patient, we could have kept Layden and let him develop the team without Dolans meddling.
That is what most of you wanted, a GM from SAS who is a very smart.

As for tanking? Accidental or not, I don't like it. I don't prescribe to it and dig that N'dour hit a game winning shot when given an opportunity. We are developing players and they can't be told to not try.
We root for knicks, we root for Gaines (hired by Phil) and we go into next year with having given minutes to young guys. we did this and with all our problems still won 31 games. Now, Im not going to say that's a good thing, but given our lack of blue chip players and injuries, expected or not, the team underperformed but for a change will be rewarded with the proper opportunity to draft a player.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Love the "Grass is always greener"..........

Flip was on to something a few years back when they bought him back and they decided to rebuild. Its taken them a while. I'd have to say Knick fans love this idea but in fact you have not digrested their blunders and lost the patience because of it. Lets be real, most knick fans like the idea of a rebuild but really can't stomach it. To do so means the team would have made awful blunders in the past, had to lose a lot of games, got ride of dead weight, and tank.

To read a statement such as yours knowing Scott Layden would be the GM is very funny stuff!!!

The great thing about Phil is that he has been accidentally tanking while trying to win. So while the rebuild hasn't been the intent of the front office it has been a nice plan b. I don't know how or why Layden keeps being brought into the thread. Is this thread about trying to find a worst pres/gm then Phil? Vlade is the only guy that might fit your argument of guys that are worse in their job in my opinion.

ONe more time:

Layden was the Spurs Assistant GM. He was hired by Pop and Buford. That says a lot. He is the GM of the Wolves. So when I read this after many gushing about the wolves I think that's funny as shyt.
Scotty had not done a good job here and Dolan was pulling a lot of strings. Its funny that Isiah comes in with great fanfare and leverages the team in the worst way, a salary total that as off the freaking charts, and blew first round picks. Layden was credited with having scouted Stocken and Malone (team effort of course!) So Layden is booted, Isiah is booted, Walsh was disgraced, Grunfeld did a credible job and now The Mills and PHils run the roost. Meanwhile Scotty is vetted by Pop and Buford to be deputy dog. Perhaps if patient, we could have kept Layden and let him develop the team without Dolans meddling.
That is what most of you wanted, a GM from SAS who is a very smart.

As for tanking? Accidental or not, I don't like it. I don't prescribe to it and dig that N'dour hit a game winning shot when given an opportunity. We are developing players and they can't be told to not try.
We root for knicks, we root for Gaines (hired by Phil) and we go into next year with having given minutes to young guys. we did this and with all our problems still won 31 games. Now, Im not going to say that's a good thing, but given our lack of blue chip players and injuries, expected or not, the team underperformed but for a change will be rewarded with the proper opportunity to draft a player.

I think saying 'some of you guys want a Spurs guy' is underestimating the posters here. I also don't get the Layden was a spur and he sucked here stuff. Phil has total autonomy. He has not done a good job so far. He is known as a guy that doesn't communicate with his peers. He does meddle with his coaches. He has given out really bad contracts. He goes after players through his sources and Twitter. Phil is here for two more years. Let's hope he ups his executive game a bit and makes the Knicks better. No need to introduce fans to a guy that has worked for the Knicks for 8-9 years or find a guy that sucked with the Knicks to make Phil seem better. So far he might be better than Vlade if you judge him against his peers in his current position.

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Love the "Grass is always greener"..........

Flip was on to something a few years back when they bought him back and they decided to rebuild. Its taken them a while. I'd have to say Knick fans love this idea but in fact you have not digrested their blunders and lost the patience because of it. Lets be real, most knick fans like the idea of a rebuild but really can't stomach it. To do so means the team would have made awful blunders in the past, had to lose a lot of games, got ride of dead weight, and tank.

To read a statement such as yours knowing Scott Layden would be the GM is very funny stuff!!!

The great thing about Phil is that he has been accidentally tanking while trying to win. So while the rebuild hasn't been the intent of the front office it has been a nice plan b. I don't know how or why Layden keeps being brought into the thread. Is this thread about trying to find a worst pres/gm then Phil? Vlade is the only guy that might fit your argument of guys that are worse in their job in my opinion.

Phil's biggest mistake was resigning Anthony...or at least giving him the no-trade clause. BUT you cannot forget our draft situation. He was missing 2 #1 picks and all our #2 picks, and none of it had to do with him.

We couldn't even do a complete tear down because of what previous GMs had left him.

I was not in love with the Calderon acquisition, but the pick we got back was used on Early, and guy that many considered a good pick...someone thought of as late #1 by some at the time. Do we wish he had used it on a guy like Jokic...sure, but everyone missed out on him.

KP and Willy were great picks, and Grant was universally applauded by most around here, with some saying it made the KP pick more acceptable. Nobody figured he would be a bust here. In terms of UDFAs he has been pretty good so far. Galloway, Baker, Plumlee, Ndour, Randle, etc., have been decent pickups, and Kuz, and even Sasha, were nice cheap signings. After a poor first year, KOQ also emerged as an inexpensive and useful player.

Should have gotten more for Shumpert and Smith, though we did end up with Thomas, who few expected would emerge as a valuable player.

I liked the Lopez signing, but the acquisition of Rose, Noah, and Lee did not seem terrible to me at the time, and I actually liked Jennings, after not liking him in the past. Nobody could predict what would happen to Noah. Rose was here to see if he might be worth keeping...we now know he is probably not.

Some of the pickups the past year were for Anthony...in a perfect world Phil would be preparing to pick his 4th #1 as our "GM." He would not have kept Anthony...not needed to pick up Rose, Noah, and Lee for Anthony, and who knows how things would be.

Not saying I'm in love with Jackson, and his interpersonal skills are sorely lacking, but you can make a case that he has not been a total bust, even with our terrible records. I just think he started in a hole. The Triangle love did not help, but it might be a fit thing for the vets we have had (Mainly Anthony and Rose, but also J.R. and Shumpert when they were here.)

If I'm grading him I give him a C...maybe a C+ if I'm feeling generous, but I think there are many issues to look at in terms of judging him at this point... and some of them were beyond his control.

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Will again say that Minny was a major disappointment this year, despite their big 3. No way they should have finished the way they did.

LaVine...3rd year; Wiggins...3rd year; Towns...ROY in his second year having an All-Star quality 2nd year.

Dieng and Rubio both vets.

This is a young team but something is wrong when a team with the offensive talent they have cannot finish above the 6th or 7th pick in the draft...and this team has been a lottery and tank quality team since 2008 and beyond.

You have no idea what our roster would look like if Jackson had ALL his #1 picks, and not the single #1 he had been given during his 1st 3 years.

I hate defending Jackson, because I'm not in love with what he has done, but there are many factors to consider.

One thing we do know, though, is that one of the most exciting offensive lineups in the league could not finish strong even though their coach was playing to win to the very end.

Maybe next year is a turning point for them...maybe they pick up the right FA, or draft a guy who will turn them around...we will see, but this was a woefully underachieving team this year.

I don't think you can call a team as young as they are underachieving. If you look, it usually takes a young team a year or two longer than you might think to put it all together. The Wolves have a bright future. They're adding a top 7 pick to a stacked young nucleus of Towns, Wiggins, Lavine, Dunn. They may need to move a guy or two and make an adjustment. But they're more like one or two moves away from being very good. Where we are more like five or ten good moves away from being good. And you typically get about two or three chances to make good moves per year.

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Will again say that Minny was a major disappointment this year, despite their big 3. No way they should have finished the way they did.

LaVine...3rd year; Wiggins...3rd year; Towns...ROY in his second year having an All-Star quality 2nd year.

Dieng and Rubio both vets.

This is a young team but something is wrong when a team with the offensive talent they have cannot finish above the 6th or 7th pick in the draft...and this team has been a lottery and tank quality team since 2008 and beyond.

You have no idea what our roster would look like if Jackson had ALL his #1 picks, and not the single #1 he had been given during his 1st 3 years.

I hate defending Jackson, because I'm not in love with what he has done, but there are many factors to consider.

One thing we do know, though, is that one of the most exciting offensive lineups in the league could not finish strong even though their coach was playing to win to the very end.

Maybe next year is a turning point for them...maybe they pick up the right FA, or draft a guy who will turn them around...we will see, but this was a woefully underachieving team this year.

I don't think you can call a team as young as they are underachieving. If you look, it usually takes a young team a year or two longer than you might think to put it all together. The Wolves have a bright future. They're adding a top 7 pick to a stacked young nucleus of Towns, Wiggins, Lavine, Dunn. They may need to move a guy or two and make an adjustment. But they're more like one or two moves away from being very good. Where we are more like five or ten good moves away from being good. And you typically get about two or three chances to make good moves per year.

Can you tell me the amazing moves Minny has made outside of being bad and consistently getting lottery picks?

Have any idea why they have all the young pieces? Give it a thought or two. Has NOTHING to do with smart moves...more to do with losing BIG...BUT having their draft picks. Minny also traded their star player-their Carmelo-for assets...unlike the Knicks.

At this time, as we wait to see what pick we finally get, we should have had THREE #1 picks chosen by Jackson on our roster, a few #2s, which would have been low 30s picks, plus Hernangomez.

You guys are just not seeing the big picture when you compare the two franchises and evaluate Jackson, who I really don't want to defend.

By the way...my first comment about Minny was that I thought they would have to trade off either Wiggins or LaVine at some point...I still believe this.

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Will again say that Minny was a major disappointment this year, despite their big 3. No way they should have finished the way they did.

LaVine...3rd year; Wiggins...3rd year; Towns...ROY in his second year having an All-Star quality 2nd year.

Dieng and Rubio both vets.

This is a young team but something is wrong when a team with the offensive talent they have cannot finish above the 6th or 7th pick in the draft...and this team has been a lottery and tank quality team since 2008 and beyond.

You have no idea what our roster would look like if Jackson had ALL his #1 picks, and not the single #1 he had been given during his 1st 3 years.

I hate defending Jackson, because I'm not in love with what he has done, but there are many factors to consider.

One thing we do know, though, is that one of the most exciting offensive lineups in the league could not finish strong even though their coach was playing to win to the very end.

Maybe next year is a turning point for them...maybe they pick up the right FA, or draft a guy who will turn them around...we will see, but this was a woefully underachieving team this year.

A big three is put together to contend for a title...It's not a big three..It's three young players gaining their NBA footing...You have zero expectations for KP..They are the same age, in the same boat and have played less time professionally...Turning point????Will next year be a turning point for KP..NOOOO..

They are not an exciting offensive lineup either...They should be college juniors and seniors...Break up GS/OKC in year two....Curry got the the playoffs in his 4th season, KD his third...Yes, thy should have done better but it's not something you act on like vets at the end of their careers...Learning curve is longer with yoots...Again 21/22 yr olds..Timr Hardaway Jr. breaking out at 24...

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

Comes down to the chemistry on a team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. The fact that hardly any of us would take the Knicks roster over the Minny roster almost proves the point. They had an entire season to mesh, and yet by the end of the year they were still being called clueless on D by commentators.

Sure...they might come around next year, but they have a team that underachieved significantly this season, even when Lavine was healthy, and this has to be considered when evaluating them as a team.

No, you can't compare the two situations..The Knicks were reliant on vet players for wins this season and the Wolves are just a young team trying to find their way in this league...I'm not sure if you evaluate chemistry yet as opposed to fit with that team, which is different...Chemistry implies fine tuning a team...You aren't fine tuning 21/22 years olds yet..

I'll trade every last player, owner, front office personnel, security guy, concession person, etc for everything the Wolves have...And without a thought...

Will again say that Minny was a major disappointment this year, despite their big 3. No way they should have finished the way they did.

LaVine...3rd year; Wiggins...3rd year; Towns...ROY in his second year having an All-Star quality 2nd year.

Dieng and Rubio both vets.

This is a young team but something is wrong when a team with the offensive talent they have cannot finish above the 6th or 7th pick in the draft...and this team has been a lottery and tank quality team since 2008 and beyond.

You have no idea what our roster would look like if Jackson had ALL his #1 picks, and not the single #1 he had been given during his 1st 3 years.

I hate defending Jackson, because I'm not in love with what he has done, but there are many factors to consider.

One thing we do know, though, is that one of the most exciting offensive lineups in the league could not finish strong even though their coach was playing to win to the very end.

Maybe next year is a turning point for them...maybe they pick up the right FA, or draft a guy who will turn them around...we will see, but this was a woefully underachieving team this year.

A big three is put together to contend for a title...It's not a big three..It's three young players gaining their NBA footing...You have zero expectations for KP..They are the same age, in the same boat and have played less time professionally...Turning point????Will next year be a turning point for KP..NOOOO..

They are not an exciting offensive lineup either...They should be college juniors and seniors...Break up GS/OKC in year two....Curry got the the playoffs in his 4th season, KD his third...Yes, thy should have done better but it's not something you act on like vets at the end of their careers...Learning curve is longer with yoots...Again 21/22 yr olds..Timr Hardaway Jr. breaking out at 24...

As I said a number of times...my gut feeling is that they will eventually make a decision to trade either Wiggins or LaVine.

Am I being too tough on Minny? Perhaps. Just expected to see some kind of progress from them as a team, and I'm not sure we saw it.

Next year will be the 4th season for LaVine and Wiggins and they are RFAs after next season, which means Minny will have to make decisions. They signed Dieng to an extension that will cost them some money, drafted their future PG last year, and have a franchise player in KAT.

Not much wiggle room for them...I just feel that at some point, they will have to make a change to step up to the next level...and I figure Wiggins or LaVine will be moved.

Wiggins and LaVine both count as assets if they decide to move them in trades though. It's not the worst problem to have to have to figure out how to balance your roster.