crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

this just trolling. No different than Briggs starting a Seth Curry thread after every good game. Hardaway is having a good year. He was also shooting like 38% when he was traded for a PG prospect. But yea... Phil failed to recognize this. Fire him. Ive seen enough.

Maybe we should revisit Jose the Melo contract as well? It seems your not getting enough of what your looking for.

Hey, I was responding specifically to you saying "maybe you can't see the pipeline of young talent Phil is assembling here".

Those other things happened too. Jose and Melo are more examples of how bad Phil has been. But I was limiting it to the "young talent pipeline".

I didn't even mention Cleanthony and Thanasis.

But if you think Phil hasnt been active in getting younger and building a pipeline from DAY ONE than you just havent been paying attention. All I am saying is Phil has been very active in bringing in young talent to look at. We see young fringe talent blossom and help teams all the time but in the past never commited to developing those types of players. That is happening as well.

See? This is emotional posting 101. Look at my quote. I say he's working harder than any previous FOs to get younger, build, bring in and evaluate young talent.

You hear: "look at all these great players he's bringing in."

You are on tilt.

I didn't even mention Cleanthony and Thanasis.

Should we go back a couple years and get your take on the Grant/THjr trade?

fishmike wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:This would be all fine and dandy if the losing happened after the Melo trade talks

Melo was put on the "block" January 20 or so
Knicks record at that time was already a few games under .500
The Knicks began to lose and that's when Phil asks melo about wanting to stay a knick or not

That said yes it was a distraction no doubt

But the losing already was going on. Team was imploding on the court before Melo trade talk.

trade talks happened because Melo was having a **** year and quit again. Tri-angle? MY-angle.

Trade talks happen on every team that has a star player on decline whose team is not doing well
Once the team didn't meet expectations Phil did the right thing putting Melo on the block
He did the wrong thing in not being direct with Melo or tweeting about articles taking shots at Melo

But Melo has been a real down side to this team and franchise as the man
Knicks need a new leader or to move Melo to a situation where he does not have to lead.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

crzymdups wrote:This is a fantastic move if true. Never thought Timmy could net a first round pick. I love Jerian Grant. Perfect Triangle guard.

Lots of good GMs have struggled, especially early. Phil hasnt gotten the guy's he's wanted. Go look at some of the moves Jerry West made when Memphis hired him. There are sooo many factors. You have given up and you are revising history. Im willing to wait. Thats it. Im not saying anything more profound than that.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

Your response when the Knicks trade Hardaway for Grant:

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51620

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

Like I said, I was on board until Phil gave up on Grant a year later. For a player we're all praying the Knicks don't re-sign.

If you go back and look at my posts throughout the year, I lamented the way Hardaway was used and was bummed. You remember when Kerr had a handshake deal to coach the Knicks? One of the main reasons he wanted to come here was Hardaway. He gave Hardaway an All NBA Rookie First Team vote. (There were also rumors that Hardaway had his girlfriend diddled by DFish and that was a reason for the trade, which I didn't hear until the following year when it came out that he was diddling Barnes' ex and possibly also diddled Cleanthony's girl.)

There's no pipeline, there's no direction, there's no consistency.

2013-4 offseason the narrative was "I'm going to bring in vets who understand how to play team ball and install system basketball"... Phil trades Tyson and Felton and eventually Shump and JR for Jose Calderon and Lance Thomas.

2014-5 offseason the narrative was "we might have cap room to sign not one but TWO max players"... we get Rolo and Afflalo. Hardaway traded. Shved leaves for nothing. Thanasis leaves the NBA.

2015-6 offseason the narrative was "KP is ahead of schedule and potentially great, let's build to match Melo's timeline, we'll bring in a coach who won't necessarily coach the Triangle"...Phil trades Grant and Rolo for Rose and signs Noah and CLee. Young guard Galloway leaves for nothing. Cleanthony leaves for nothing.

2016-17 offseason narrative "it's all Melo's fault, it's time to rebuild and go back to the Triangle"... moves TBD

Meanwhile, we're winning meaningless games down the stretch to worsen our draft pick and some guys here are saying it's all about developing the young players anyway.

But if you can find enough consistency there to make you happy, more power to you. We're approaching half a decade of offseasons of Phil changing his mind. I hope he sticks to a plan this time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath if that's okay with you.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

Your response when the Knicks trade Hardaway for Grant:

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51620

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

Like I said, I was on board until Phil gave up on Grant a year later. For a player we're all praying the Knicks don't re-sign.

If you go back and look at my posts throughout the year, I lamented the way Hardaway was used and was bummed. You remember when Kerr had a handshake deal to coach the Knicks? One of the main reasons he wanted to come here was Hardaway. He gave Hardaway an All NBA Rookie First Team vote. (There were also rumors that Hardaway had his girlfriend diddled by DFish and that was a reason for the trade, which I didn't hear until the following year when it came out that he was diddling Barnes' ex and possibly also diddled Cleanthony's girl.)

There's no pipeline, there's no direction, there's no consistency.

2013-4 offseason the narrative was "I'm going to bring in vets who understand how to play team ball and install system basketball"... Phil trades Tyson and Felton and eventually Shump and JR for Jose Calderon and Lance Thomas.

2014-5 offseason the narrative was "we might have cap room to sign not one but TWO max players"... we get Rolo and Afflalo. Hardaway traded. Shved leaves for nothing. Thanasis leaves the NBA.

2015-6 offseason the narrative was "KP is ahead of schedule and potentially great, let's build to match Melo's timeline, we'll bring in a coach who won't necessarily coach the Triangle"...Phil trades Grant and Rolo for Rose and signs Noah and CLee. Young guard Galloway leaves for nothing. Cleanthony leaves for nothing.

2016-17 offseason narrative "it's all Melo's fault, it's time to rebuild and go back to the Triangle"... moves TBD

Meanwhile, we're winning meaningless games down the stretch to worsen our draft pick and some guys here are saying it's all about developing the young players anyway.

But if you can find enough consistency there to make you happy, more power to you. We're approaching half a decade of offseasons of Phil changing his mind. I hope he sticks to a plan this time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath if that's okay with you.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

Your response when the Knicks trade Hardaway for Grant:

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51620

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

Like I said, I was on board until Phil gave up on Grant a year later. For a player we're all praying the Knicks don't re-sign.

If you go back and look at my posts throughout the year, I lamented the way Hardaway was used and was bummed. You remember when Kerr had a handshake deal to coach the Knicks? One of the main reasons he wanted to come here was Hardaway. He gave Hardaway an All NBA Rookie First Team vote. (There were also rumors that Hardaway had his girlfriend diddled by DFish and that was a reason for the trade, which I didn't hear until the following year when it came out that he was diddling Barnes' ex and possibly also diddled Cleanthony's girl.)

There's no pipeline, there's no direction, there's no consistency.

2013-4 offseason the narrative was "I'm going to bring in vets who understand how to play team ball and install system basketball"... Phil trades Tyson and Felton and eventually Shump and JR for Jose Calderon and Lance Thomas.

2014-5 offseason the narrative was "we might have cap room to sign not one but TWO max players"... we get Rolo and Afflalo. Hardaway traded. Shved leaves for nothing. Thanasis leaves the NBA.

2015-6 offseason the narrative was "KP is ahead of schedule and potentially great, let's build to match Melo's timeline, we'll bring in a coach who won't necessarily coach the Triangle"...Phil trades Grant and Rolo for Rose and signs Noah and CLee. Young guard Galloway leaves for nothing. Cleanthony leaves for nothing.

2016-17 offseason narrative "it's all Melo's fault, it's time to rebuild and go back to the Triangle"... moves TBD

Meanwhile, we're winning meaningless games down the stretch to worsen our draft pick and some guys here are saying it's all about developing the young players anyway.

But if you can find enough consistency there to make you happy, more power to you. We're approaching half a decade of offseasons of Phil changing his mind. I hope he sticks to a plan this time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath if that's okay with you.

crzymdups wrote:Wow. Not sure where I stand on this trade. What's our cap look like for this summer now?

I loved DRose as a player back in the day. Not sure what he has left in the tank at this rate.

It'll be interesting. With Hornacek running things... could be very interesting. Hornacek got his 28yr old PG.

Curious to hear Melo's reaction...

Again the REAL problem is trying to build around Melo and Melo's timeline. You are 100% right that because of that the narritive has changed. I am willing to see how we move on from this, starting with the draft and what the team looks like post Melo. Maybe that sounds like "just waiting another year" to you, but if Melo goes its the first year since Ewing left we didnt have a savior or some star player faux player to build around. Its about a team and adding parts. I am looking forward to that and OK with sit through this drama, ESPECIALLY while I see us trying to build and add/develop young guys.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

Your response when the Knicks trade Hardaway for Grant:

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51620

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

Like I said, I was on board until Phil gave up on Grant a year later. For a player we're all praying the Knicks don't re-sign.

If you go back and look at my posts throughout the year, I lamented the way Hardaway was used and was bummed. You remember when Kerr had a handshake deal to coach the Knicks? One of the main reasons he wanted to come here was Hardaway. He gave Hardaway an All NBA Rookie First Team vote. (There were also rumors that Hardaway had his girlfriend diddled by DFish and that was a reason for the trade, which I didn't hear until the following year when it came out that he was diddling Barnes' ex and possibly also diddled Cleanthony's girl.)

There's no pipeline, there's no direction, there's no consistency.

2013-4 offseason the narrative was "I'm going to bring in vets who understand how to play team ball and install system basketball"... Phil trades Tyson and Felton and eventually Shump and JR for Jose Calderon and Lance Thomas.

2014-5 offseason the narrative was "we might have cap room to sign not one but TWO max players"... we get Rolo and Afflalo. Hardaway traded. Shved leaves for nothing. Thanasis leaves the NBA.

2015-6 offseason the narrative was "KP is ahead of schedule and potentially great, let's build to match Melo's timeline, we'll bring in a coach who won't necessarily coach the Triangle"...Phil trades Grant and Rolo for Rose and signs Noah and CLee. Young guard Galloway leaves for nothing. Cleanthony leaves for nothing.

2016-17 offseason narrative "it's all Melo's fault, it's time to rebuild and go back to the Triangle"... moves TBD

Meanwhile, we're winning meaningless games down the stretch to worsen our draft pick and some guys here are saying it's all about developing the young players anyway.

But if you can find enough consistency there to make you happy, more power to you. We're approaching half a decade of offseasons of Phil changing his mind. I hope he sticks to a plan this time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath if that's okay with you.

I don't understand this narrative at all. Phil is grooming Mills and Houston and the rest of his staff as to how to manage assets, when to take chances, and when to hold them. The Westchester Knicks have become a stable asset to keep the end of the bench engaged and as a holding station for additional assets.

No plan can do more than create a framework for success that is dependent on the coaches and players. Phil,you, and I all look at the teams he's fielded on paper and reasonably expect the to make the playoffs but they don't. Triangulate why and Melo is the common denominator. It is what it is, nothing else.

As for meaningless games, who cares? Its ping-pong balls all the way down. We all have confidence that Phil, Gaines, and others will do right by the pick - again its no guarantee no matter where you pick.

Squint and you can see Phil's vision but its not whole cloth yet. Doesn't mean there's no plan or that he's incompetent.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

Your response when the Knicks trade Hardaway for Grant:

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51620

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

Like I said, I was on board until Phil gave up on Grant a year later. For a player we're all praying the Knicks don't re-sign.

If you go back and look at my posts throughout the year, I lamented the way Hardaway was used and was bummed. You remember when Kerr had a handshake deal to coach the Knicks? One of the main reasons he wanted to come here was Hardaway. He gave Hardaway an All NBA Rookie First Team vote. (There were also rumors that Hardaway had his girlfriend diddled by DFish and that was a reason for the trade, which I didn't hear until the following year when it came out that he was diddling Barnes' ex and possibly also diddled Cleanthony's girl.)

There's no pipeline, there's no direction, there's no consistency.

2013-4 offseason the narrative was "I'm going to bring in vets who understand how to play team ball and install system basketball"... Phil trades Tyson and Felton and eventually Shump and JR for Jose Calderon and Lance Thomas.

2014-5 offseason the narrative was "we might have cap room to sign not one but TWO max players"... we get Rolo and Afflalo. Hardaway traded. Shved leaves for nothing. Thanasis leaves the NBA.

2015-6 offseason the narrative was "KP is ahead of schedule and potentially great, let's build to match Melo's timeline, we'll bring in a coach who won't necessarily coach the Triangle"...Phil trades Grant and Rolo for Rose and signs Noah and CLee. Young guard Galloway leaves for nothing. Cleanthony leaves for nothing.

2016-17 offseason narrative "it's all Melo's fault, it's time to rebuild and go back to the Triangle"... moves TBD

Meanwhile, we're winning meaningless games down the stretch to worsen our draft pick and some guys here are saying it's all about developing the young players anyway.

But if you can find enough consistency there to make you happy, more power to you. We're approaching half a decade of offseasons of Phil changing his mind. I hope he sticks to a plan this time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath if that's okay with you.

Your take on the Rose trade:

crzymdups wrote:Wow. Not sure where I stand on this trade. What's our cap look like for this summer now?

I loved DRose as a player back in the day. Not sure what he has left in the tank at this rate.

It'll be interesting. With Hornacek running things... could be very interesting. Hornacek got his 28yr old PG.

Curious to hear Melo's reaction...

That doesnt read like your pretty pissed about giving up on Grant. Sure does sound like you see some logic at the time behind this.

Again the REAL problem is trying to build around Melo and Melo's timeline. You are 100% right that because of that the narritive has changed. I am willing to see how we move on from this, starting with the draft and what the team looks like post Melo. Maybe that sounds like "just waiting another year" to you, but if Melo goes its the first year since Ewing left we didnt have a savior or some star player faux player to build around. Its about a team and adding parts. I am looking forward to that and OK with sit through this drama, ESPECIALLY while I see us trying to build and add/develop young guys.

Yes, a ringing endorsement. "Wow. Not sure where I stand on this trade."

And if you think KP won't immediately be tabbed the savior role (and hasn't already by some here), I don't know what to tell you.

Like I said, I can't wait til Melo is traded, because then Phil finally has no more excuses. I'm actually wondering if Phil will even trade his safety net away. It's a risky move.

No. You didnt make a ringing endorsement. It was a wait and see reaction. Far different than "giving up on Grant was the last straw" which is what you said earlier.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

Your response when the Knicks trade Hardaway for Grant:

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51620

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

Like I said, I was on board until Phil gave up on Grant a year later. For a player we're all praying the Knicks don't re-sign.

If you go back and look at my posts throughout the year, I lamented the way Hardaway was used and was bummed. You remember when Kerr had a handshake deal to coach the Knicks? One of the main reasons he wanted to come here was Hardaway. He gave Hardaway an All NBA Rookie First Team vote. (There were also rumors that Hardaway had his girlfriend diddled by DFish and that was a reason for the trade, which I didn't hear until the following year when it came out that he was diddling Barnes' ex and possibly also diddled Cleanthony's girl.)

There's no pipeline, there's no direction, there's no consistency.

2013-4 offseason the narrative was "I'm going to bring in vets who understand how to play team ball and install system basketball"... Phil trades Tyson and Felton and eventually Shump and JR for Jose Calderon and Lance Thomas.

2014-5 offseason the narrative was "we might have cap room to sign not one but TWO max players"... we get Rolo and Afflalo. Hardaway traded. Shved leaves for nothing. Thanasis leaves the NBA.

2015-6 offseason the narrative was "KP is ahead of schedule and potentially great, let's build to match Melo's timeline, we'll bring in a coach who won't necessarily coach the Triangle"...Phil trades Grant and Rolo for Rose and signs Noah and CLee. Young guard Galloway leaves for nothing. Cleanthony leaves for nothing.

2016-17 offseason narrative "it's all Melo's fault, it's time to rebuild and go back to the Triangle"... moves TBD

Meanwhile, we're winning meaningless games down the stretch to worsen our draft pick and some guys here are saying it's all about developing the young players anyway.

But if you can find enough consistency there to make you happy, more power to you. We're approaching half a decade of offseasons of Phil changing his mind. I hope he sticks to a plan this time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath if that's okay with you.

Your take on the Rose trade:

crzymdups wrote:Wow. Not sure where I stand on this trade. What's our cap look like for this summer now?

I loved DRose as a player back in the day. Not sure what he has left in the tank at this rate.

It'll be interesting. With Hornacek running things... could be very interesting. Hornacek got his 28yr old PG.

Curious to hear Melo's reaction...

That doesnt read like your pretty pissed about giving up on Grant. Sure does sound like you see some logic at the time behind this.

Again the REAL problem is trying to build around Melo and Melo's timeline. You are 100% right that because of that the narritive has changed. I am willing to see how we move on from this, starting with the draft and what the team looks like post Melo. Maybe that sounds like "just waiting another year" to you, but if Melo goes its the first year since Ewing left we didnt have a savior or some star player faux player to build around. Its about a team and adding parts. I am looking forward to that and OK with sit through this drama, ESPECIALLY while I see us trying to build and add/develop young guys.

Yes, a ringing endorsement. "Wow. Not sure where I stand on this trade."

And if you think KP won't immediately be tabbed the savior role (and hasn't already by some here), I don't know what to tell you.

Like I said, I can't wait til Melo is traded, because then Phil finally has no more excuses. I'm actually wondering if Phil will even trade his safety net away. It's a risky move.

Well while the KNicks are struggling with a young team you can post Melo's scoring lines every night as he helps catapult the Clippers to another 2nd round exit.... if it makes you feel better.

No. You didnt make a ringing endorsement. It was a wait and see reaction. Far different than "giving up on Grant was the last straw" which is what you said earlier.

I doubt there will ever be a last straw for me. I love the Knicks and want them to be good. It doesn't mean I lie to myself and pretend to be excited about the job Phil has done here.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Tim Hardaway last night in Atlanta's 123-116 win over Boston -

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.

Don't want this one to get lost on the last page. Can't wait to hear the Triangle Spin on this one.

Are you so bent on creating an argument that you need to reach back to a player that was on the Knicks like 2 years ago?

THJr has not been an average NBA player until the last few months. So, 4 years in the league and he finally has shown up. Kudos for him for finally getting it.

How's his defense?

WTF does this have to do with the Triangle?

Phil gave up on him because he wasn't a triangle fit. Atlanta spent last year breaking down all his bad habits and building him back up into a team player. It's called player development. This year he's a breakout young star for them.

Your response when the Knicks trade Hardaway for Grant:

crzymdups wrote:Wooooohooooooo!!!!

I'm back baby!!! I'm back!!!

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51620

I mean cmon man... every move is going to be perfect and no player we let go can EVER become good or up their game? Cmon man.

Like I said, I was on board until Phil gave up on Grant a year later. For a player we're all praying the Knicks don't re-sign.

If you go back and look at my posts throughout the year, I lamented the way Hardaway was used and was bummed. You remember when Kerr had a handshake deal to coach the Knicks? One of the main reasons he wanted to come here was Hardaway. He gave Hardaway an All NBA Rookie First Team vote. (There were also rumors that Hardaway had his girlfriend diddled by DFish and that was a reason for the trade, which I didn't hear until the following year when it came out that he was diddling Barnes' ex and possibly also diddled Cleanthony's girl.)

There's no pipeline, there's no direction, there's no consistency.

2013-4 offseason the narrative was "I'm going to bring in vets who understand how to play team ball and install system basketball"... Phil trades Tyson and Felton and eventually Shump and JR for Jose Calderon and Lance Thomas.

2014-5 offseason the narrative was "we might have cap room to sign not one but TWO max players"... we get Rolo and Afflalo. Hardaway traded. Shved leaves for nothing. Thanasis leaves the NBA.

2015-6 offseason the narrative was "KP is ahead of schedule and potentially great, let's build to match Melo's timeline, we'll bring in a coach who won't necessarily coach the Triangle"...Phil trades Grant and Rolo for Rose and signs Noah and CLee. Young guard Galloway leaves for nothing. Cleanthony leaves for nothing.

2016-17 offseason narrative "it's all Melo's fault, it's time to rebuild and go back to the Triangle"... moves TBD

Meanwhile, we're winning meaningless games down the stretch to worsen our draft pick and some guys here are saying it's all about developing the young players anyway.

But if you can find enough consistency there to make you happy, more power to you. We're approaching half a decade of offseasons of Phil changing his mind. I hope he sticks to a plan this time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath if that's okay with you.

Your take on the Rose trade:

crzymdups wrote:Wow. Not sure where I stand on this trade. What's our cap look like for this summer now?

I loved DRose as a player back in the day. Not sure what he has left in the tank at this rate.

It'll be interesting. With Hornacek running things... could be very interesting. Hornacek got his 28yr old PG.

Curious to hear Melo's reaction...

That doesnt read like your pretty pissed about giving up on Grant. Sure does sound like you see some logic at the time behind this.

Again the REAL problem is trying to build around Melo and Melo's timeline. You are 100% right that because of that the narritive has changed. I am willing to see how we move on from this, starting with the draft and what the team looks like post Melo. Maybe that sounds like "just waiting another year" to you, but if Melo goes its the first year since Ewing left we didnt have a savior or some star player faux player to build around. Its about a team and adding parts. I am looking forward to that and OK with sit through this drama, ESPECIALLY while I see us trying to build and add/develop young guys.

Yes, a ringing endorsement. "Wow. Not sure where I stand on this trade."

And if you think KP won't immediately be tabbed the savior role (and hasn't already by some here), I don't know what to tell you.

Like I said, I can't wait til Melo is traded, because then Phil finally has no more excuses. I'm actually wondering if Phil will even trade his safety net away. It's a risky move.

Well while the KNicks are struggling with a young team you can post Melo's scoring lines every night as he helps catapult the Clippers to another 2nd round exit.... if it makes you feel better.

No. You didnt make a ringing endorsement. It was a wait and see reaction. Far different than "giving up on Grant was the last straw" which is what you said earlier.

I doubt there will ever be a last straw for me. I love the Knicks and want them to be good. It doesn't mean I lie to myself and pretend to be excited about the job Phil has done here.

Who is asking you to do that? Who is doing that here? (Dont mention Nix, he doesnt count).

Actually its me. I admit it. I am excited about the prospect of moving forward with a Phil created team post Melo/Rose. I am excited to see how the coach looks with a young roster and no veteran players with egos who only play a certain way to cater to. I am indeed excited about that. I also understand it will probably result in another 30ish win season which is what it is. I do believe we see an uptick in next year's win total and style of play, but lets wait and see. I am also excited to see the new Marvel movies. These days the excitement levels are about the same. Rebuilding sucks. Its tough. It means bad play and losing stretches, but its how foundations are built. I didnt expect it to be mistake free. I am ok with "the plan" moving forward.

Actually, I guess what I'm really tired of is posters here villifying the likes of Afflalo and Melo and giving Phil a pass. I suppose it's not much a surprise I see it the opposite way - they've been good soldiers for a reeling, plan-changing old man who trashes the very pieces he brought in behind their backs to Charley Rosen over a bowl of good sticky ganja.

I'm not sure how fans can have faith in "the plan" when Phil and co changed the offensive system THREE TIMES this year. First it was Hornacek's Triangle Aspects, then they moved away from the Triangle almost entirely and went with more pick and roll, then after the all-star break it was full on Triangle again. Is it any wonder veterans like Rose and Melo and CLee threw up their hands in disgust and just tried to play the game the way they always had?

If "the plan" going forward is full on Triangle, great. It hasn't worked in the league in years, it bombed in Minnesota, it's bombed terribly here whenever it is actually being run. I don't have much faith in it working, but at least be consistent about it, for god's sake.