fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

GustavBahler wrote:Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help.

In 99 percent of cases, this would be correct.

This is NOT 99 percent of all cases. The purpose of the NTC and Trade Kicker in the NBA CBA is designed to essentially make a player virtually untradeable, which is what is happening here.

In MOST cases, a player would want to leave and go to a winning team. But again, this is a bizarre situation. Melo seems perfectly happy to stay in a low expectations situation where he is free to be a selfish team killing ballhog so he can sell all the cologne and handbags and cellphones that he wants.

Base Problem 1 - The way you talk about Melo is like you are LaLa's cousin. Well, oh well...I guess I'd want to stick up for a crappy nephew or cousin I had too....

Base Problem 2 - Like other folks here, you just ignore the aspects of the basic NBA marketplace you just don't want to hear. You simply refuse to acknowledge the NTC, the trade kicker, his age, his self imposed limitations, the ability for Melo to dictate his location and essentially the compensation going both ways.

Base Problem 3 - Your contentions are generally full of logical fallacies, and again, fail to acknowledge even the basic tenets of the current NBA marketplace.

It would not help in 99 percent of cases. This is a rare exception. In this case, it's a leverage move by Phil Jackson. Jose Canseco showed the sports world one thing very clearly. Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean they are wrong. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean they are wrong. Just because they have their own flaws or even their own agenda, doesn't mean they are wrong.

Phil Jackson might actually being doing it because he's a douchebag at heart. But, from a team management perceptive, it doesn't mean it's the wrong move.

Sadly what will likely drive Melo out of NY is "branding" in a different way. His wife was a regular on a cancelled CBS show, Unforgettable. ( the lead star of the show, Poppy Montgomery, decided getting fat was the best way to take an actress where her looks were her best marketable quality and erode them along with bad writing and poor production values to keep a show afloat) Just like the Kardashians took their turns roasting Lamar Odom and Kris Humphuries for reality show ratings purposes, LaLa can get a good ratings boost by divorcing Melo and making a plot line for her reality show. It's standard playbook for reality shows like that. Hook up, or marry, or break up, or divorce, reap ratings from the Honey Boo Boo crowd. Trashing him, kills his brand, and he'll want to leave NY.

If Jackson wanted to do this right, to leverage Melo right, all he had to do was use his LA contacts to offer LaLa a feature film where she would be lead in it, in exchange for letting all of Melo's personal dirty laundry out in the open for Page 6, so he'd waive his NTC and leave NY in shame over his personal life.

When you have a guy who only cares about selling cologne and cell phones and handbags and what the f**k ever else, you gotta hit him where he sells cologne and cell phones and handbags, not where he plays basketball ( because clearly he doesn't give a **** about that)

What Phil Jackson is doing ( Hey pass the ball more guy) is way more tame that what he could have done. Some of you talk like Jackson set Melo's kid on fire or something. He just told him to stop being a ball hog ( as if that wasn't obvious or talked about before anyway)

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

nixluva wrote:Players PLAY! Once you get in the gym and on the court it's not about the Prez/GM of the team. Melo and Rose are my big targets because a team's top players have to perform or it's hard to win in this league. You go look at the winning teams in this league and the top players are carrying a lot of the action. That makes things easier for the role players and younger players.

Melo and Rose can't carry a team anymore and that leaves the role players and kids with a tougher task. At this point it no longer matters to me. I've moved on mentally from Melo as a key factor driving this team. He simply doesn't matter anymore.

Sure players play, but some play better than others and those are the ones every team wants.
The fact that Melo and Rose are not the same players they use to be is something that many NBA Lovers saw it coming, but somehow Phil didn’t. His timing has being wayyyyyy off. And that include the trades for Calderon and the signing of Noah. What’s next? Trading / signing for Mike Dunleavy Junior and then blaming him for not performing to PHIL’S UNREALISTIC’S expectations.

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

You conveniently ignore the fact that year after year the young players - plying without Melo on the floor - havre no problem executing the Triangle and playing fine defense as taught and advocated by the coaching staff and upper management.

The minute Melo gets on the floor everybody freezes like they're playing Simon Sez instead of basketball.

Yeah, its on Melo.

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:
This is exactly correct. Words could never hurt or help a players talent value to a team. Melo is a well-known commodity and No one in the Knicks organization need say a word about his value.

Melo is a volume scorer based on volume possession. That's a good thing if that's what your team needs otherwise its not. He will not bring back very much in trade.

Melo was injured at the time, and trading him to a contender, mid season, would have been difficult enough. Having a legendary HOF coach publicly declaring that he doesn't like Melo's game, wasn't going to help garner interest with another team, and their fan base.

Say what you want, it sure as hell didn't help. Its why team presidents dont engage in this type of behavior. Once again, when all is said and done the buck stops with Phil Jackson, no matter how some of you try to change the subject.

At least admit that. Im more than willing to admit that Melo is a talented but flawed player. Its why I didn't want Melo back if it meant a max contract, and certainly not with a no trade clause. Its not an either or proposition.

Yes, the buck stops with Phil and Phil will help Melo pack.

But no, Melo is NOT A TALENTED player. He's NOT A FLAWED player. He's a free-loader.

A talented player will find a way to win, will adapt, will make the players around him mindful and better.

Tell me what Melo is talented at? Tapping his head?

And "flawed" implies there's a slight adjustment to be made that should have been made YEARS AGO but somehow is so mysterious no one can figure out why Melo can't understand a basketball system that requires defense.

Melo is a basketball albatross.

I guess he should give back that NCAA ring, the scoring title because he has no talent. You might believe his flaws outweighs what he brings to the table. But to suggest he brings nothing to the table is just plain silly.

Kobe and Paul Pierce said at one time that Melo was the toughest cover in the league. When it gets to the point where you claim a multiple all star, someone respected by his peers of having no talent, that's when its time for me to move on to another topic. Silly beyond words.

For being the toughest cover in the league, just about every young SF shut Melo down pretty well this year - shockingly so. I can't think of who Melo "owned". Anyone? Maybe a rookie somewhere?

Melo might have a driver's license too with an excellent driving record. Or maybe a credit card with excellent credit. But he OWNS the past three season's records. And that in itself is a talent.

Yes, I contend he brings nothing to this team - nothing good.

If he stays, what kind of record will the Knicks have given all this talent?

You mean next year, his 15th year in the league? Dear god - he's old. He's had multiple surgeries the past three years. He's not supposed to be carrying a team anymore. Thank god for Phil's sake he can still pretend it's all Melo's fault. I don't know what he'll do when he can't. Probably lose 50 games for the 4th straight season and not address the media and take veiled shots at his players using Charley Rosen as his mouthpiece.

This is why blaming Melo is so sad - it's his 15th year. What basketball mind thinks he's actually capable of leading the Knicks to 50 wins? As if the only two options are building a team that relies completely on Melo to be superstar or trading him.

What complete horse**** that Melo owns the last three seasons records. He owns the half season he was out injured in 2014-15? F'n weak, indeed.

Must be nice for Phil that he didn't have to do anything worthwhile with two straight years of $30M in cap room, or get ANYTHING AT ALL back in trades for the Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton, Hardaway, etc. Phil didn't have to anything at all. Because Melo OWNED the last three seasons. Dude, you are so delusional I know for a fact now that you work at MSG.

You conveniently ignore the fact that year after year the young players - plying without Melo on the floor - havre no problem executing the Triangle and playing fine defense as taught and advocated by the coaching staff and upper management.

The minute Melo gets on the floor everybody freezes like they're playing Simon Sez instead of basketball.

Yeah, its on Melo.

Does what you describe translate into wins??

IT WILL!!! Can't really judge this until Melo is gone and this team can focus from day one on TEAM BALL.