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trade Porzingis for future picks
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nykshaknbake
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3/14/2017  5:39 PM
Nalod wrote:
Trade KP is not even short sighted, its plain ignorant. Not everyone can be as fortunate as Chicago was when we got EDDY and GOT WORSE, which enabled them to obtain the picks that became aldridge and Noah, or Celtics which gave them the wonderful pick they have of brooklyns this year.

If you trade KP, you might make the team better.

Of course, you could get a huge haul from Boston. Is there anyone in this years draft you want over KP? Granted, potential is very conceptual. There is no Lebron to pick. If so BTW, Boston would not move the pick.
Celtics are not assured even of the top pick. They have the highest odds, thats it of Brooklyn is the worst team.

There is a lot of things to happen before we label KP as a flight risk. Reading an article is not one of them.

You can argue it's shortsighted, but I don't think I'm missing any knowledge or facts I should have. You don't have to trade him this year, but down the road before he expires you might.
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nyknickzingis
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3/14/2017  5:40 PM
KP won't pass up on an extension after his third year. Injuries happen. Especially a player like KP, an injury is always a major concern. Big guys, sometimes one bad injury is career altering. He is not passing up that contract extension after year 3.

If the reason to trade him is a concern he will leave in free agency, you don't worry about that until after his 6th or 7th year in the league. He will never hit unrestricted free agent status. To leave the Knicks he would need to go to a 5th year, unrestricted free agency. Pass up on guaranteed money after year 3 and 4. LOL not happening.

The thinking around here scares me at times.
martin
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3/14/2017  5:41 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:For all of you:

The OP never suggested KP wasn't going to improve or was a bad player. That makes about half of the posts here off topic.
I'm simply presenting a bad possible scenario. I'm suggesting to hedge our bets. If Kevin Durant could leave money on the table and leave a very very good Thunder team, you think it's impossible for KP to leave a team that has confusion from top to bottom every year? You want more than 2 picks? Fine. The thrust is that we convert KP into whatever equivalent asssets you can get that we'd have a easier time hanging onto. Noone in the league is untradeable outside of a few players.

How many non-super duds (like Anthony Bennett) have NOT been extended over the past 5-10 years? Maybe 1 or 2 players?

So you are willing to trade a Unicorn/potential franchise player for 2 non-unicorns just because.... just because you think over the next 3-5 years there will be constant dysfunction and KP may leave?

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nykshaknbake
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3/14/2017  5:45 PM
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:For all of you:

The OP never suggested KP wasn't going to improve or was a bad player. That makes about half of the posts here off topic.
I'm simply presenting a bad possible scenario. I'm suggesting to hedge our bets. If Kevin Durant could leave money on the table and leave a very very good Thunder team, you think it's impossible for KP to leave a team that has confusion from top to bottom every year? You want more than 2 picks? Fine. The thrust is that we convert KP into whatever equivalent asssets you can get that we'd have a easier time hanging onto. Noone in the league is untradeable outside of a few players.

How many non-super duds (like Anthony Bennett) have NOT been extended over the past 5-10 years? Maybe 1 or 2 players?

So you are willing to trade a Unicorn/potential franchise player for 2 non-unicorns just because.... just because you think over the next 3-5 years there will be constant dysfunction and KP may leave?


However many picks or assets you want. Everyone has a price. Doesn't have to be 2.

To your next point, you think in 3 years we are going to sudden;t have a competent and functional leadership?
NYKBocker
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3/14/2017  5:51 PM
I don't know how anybody at this poing can even entertain the idea of trading KP for future picks. This is mind blowing to me.
martin
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3/14/2017  6:00 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:For all of you:

The OP never suggested KP wasn't going to improve or was a bad player. That makes about half of the posts here off topic.
I'm simply presenting a bad possible scenario. I'm suggesting to hedge our bets. If Kevin Durant could leave money on the table and leave a very very good Thunder team, you think it's impossible for KP to leave a team that has confusion from top to bottom every year? You want more than 2 picks? Fine. The thrust is that we convert KP into whatever equivalent asssets you can get that we'd have a easier time hanging onto. Noone in the league is untradeable outside of a few players.

How many non-super duds (like Anthony Bennett) have NOT been extended over the past 5-10 years? Maybe 1 or 2 players?

So you are willing to trade a Unicorn/potential franchise player for 2 non-unicorns just because.... just because you think over the next 3-5 years there will be constant dysfunction and KP may leave?


However many picks or assets you want. Everyone has a price. Doesn't have to be 2.

To your next point, you think in 3 years we are going to sudden;t have a competent and functional leadership?


Let's see, 1 first round pick over 3 years and some dead weight to get rid of... not an easy task. Within 2 years I think this team will work itself out.

Even when you draft Stephen Curry.... it takes a span of 5 year to get above 30 wins.

Even when you draft Durant (unicorn), and then Westbrook (all world), still takes those guys another year to get above 30 wins.

Minnesota has 2 overall #1 picks, the #5 pick in Dunn over the past 3 years and still need time.

Philadelphia? How good has it been for them that they kept trading picks?

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StarksEwing1
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3/14/2017  6:05 PM
One of the dumbest topics i have ever seen on here
nixluva
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3/14/2017  6:31 PM
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:For all of you:

The OP never suggested KP wasn't going to improve or was a bad player. That makes about half of the posts here off topic.
I'm simply presenting a bad possible scenario. I'm suggesting to hedge our bets. If Kevin Durant could leave money on the table and leave a very very good Thunder team, you think it's impossible for KP to leave a team that has confusion from top to bottom every year? You want more than 2 picks? Fine. The thrust is that we convert KP into whatever equivalent asssets you can get that we'd have a easier time hanging onto. Noone in the league is untradeable outside of a few players.

How many non-super duds (like Anthony Bennett) have NOT been extended over the past 5-10 years? Maybe 1 or 2 players?

So you are willing to trade a Unicorn/potential franchise player for 2 non-unicorns just because.... just because you think over the next 3-5 years there will be constant dysfunction and KP may leave?


However many picks or assets you want. Everyone has a price. Doesn't have to be 2.

To your next point, you think in 3 years we are going to sudden;t have a competent and functional leadership?


Let's see, 1 first round pick over 3 years and some dead weight to get rid of... not an easy task. Within 2 years I think this team will work itself out.

Even when you draft Stephen Curry.... it takes a span of 5 year to get above 30 wins.

Even when you draft Durant (unicorn), and then Westbrook (all world), still takes those guys another year to get above 30 wins.

Minnesota has 2 overall #1 picks, the #5 pick in Dunn over the past 3 years and still need time.

Philadelphia? How good has it been for them that they kept trading picks?


Also as someone else pointed out, this is the 1st top 5 player we've drafted that has the potential to be a franchise player since Ewing. WHy in the world would we be hasty to try and move him for unknown quality players? As Martin says this is a process. We only just now got to see what we have in Willy and it's better than most would expect for where he was drafted. That was a GREAT return on that small investment. We've been having some good success with UDFA's and adding Role players like CLee, LT, Holiday and KOQ. Let's keep trying to do that.
meloshouldgo
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3/14/2017  6:40 PM

This thread = HeiHei: The sky is falling

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
HofstraBBall
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3/14/2017  6:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2017  6:51 PM
Let's trade him for future picks and then trade those picks for future picks and then trade those picks for......

Just way too early and too many things unanswered. But if you did a trade it would have to be for a guy like Jokic that is better defined at his position and has shown similar promise. But again, too early to say you can make that decision. NY fans love to trash and reset whenever things don't go their way. Now let's get rid of Phil asap! Lol

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nyknickzingis
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3/14/2017  7:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2017  7:06 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Let's trade him for future picks and then trade those picks for future picks and then trade those picks for......

Just way too early and too many things unanswered. But if you did a trade it would have to be for a guy like Jokic that is better defined at his position and has shown similar promise. But again, too early to say you can make that decision. NY fans love to trash and reset whenever things don't go their way. Now let's get rid of Phil asap! Lol


You won't like Jokic when he allows layups and can't fill in as a team's second or first option once Melo is gone.
Jokic is a great 3rd option and player who is invaluable on offense. So many things he can do and he is a better player than KP right now.

However he does not block shots or allow team's to stay away from the lane. You will always be poor defensively if your bigman can not block shots inside. KP can do this and KP is elite at protecting the rim.

Give KP time, I think he will turn out to be a better player than Jokic. I think Jokic is fantastic, but I believe it's grass is greener. As soon as you see a Jokic/Melo/Thomas frontline Knicks fans will be whining about how Jokic is horrible at protecting the basket and how many layups we give up.

Also, we never have invested in KP at the 5 full time. His rim protection makes him a huge asset defensively at 5, but we don't play him there right now because of two reasons. One, the roster is not made up in a way where KP should play 5. The other is KP's body is still not developped to the point where you want him to be banging inside 24-7. In a year, I see this as his full time position. Don't be surprised if at 23 in about 1 and half year from now, KP is a very good two way 5 in the league.
Knixkik
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3/14/2017  7:06 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Let's trade him for future picks and then trade those picks for future picks and then trade those picks for......

Just way too early and too many things unanswered. But if you did a trade it would have to be for a guy like Jokic that is better defined at his position and has shown similar promise. But again, too early to say you can make that decision. NY fans love to trash and reset whenever things don't go their way. Now let's get rid of Phil asap! Lol


I wouldn't trade him for jokic either. He has zero defensive upside. He's a great offensive player that will always have to be compensated for on the defensive end. KP has potential on both sides of the ball to build around. Trading a guy like porzingis is the type of move that sets a team back years and years. Because draft picks very rarely turn into that type of talent. We hit the jackpot with Porzingis, but to some, the grass with always be greener someplace else. I'm sure every team in the lottery would gladly give up multiple picks for him. And their fan bases would appreciate him more as well.
Knixkik
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3/14/2017  7:08 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:Let's trade him for future picks and then trade those picks for future picks and then trade those picks for......

Just way too early and too many things unanswered. But if you did a trade it would have to be for a guy like Jokic that is better defined at his position and has shown similar promise. But again, too early to say you can make that decision. NY fans love to trash and reset whenever things don't go their way. Now let's get rid of Phil asap! Lol


You won't like Jokic when he allows layups and can't fill in as a team's second or first option once Melo is gone.
Jokic is a great 3rd option and player who is invaluable on offense. So many things he can do and he is a better player than KP right now.

However he does not block shots or allow team's to stay away from the lane. You will always be poor defensively if your bigman can not block shots inside. KP can do this and KP is elite at protecting the rim.

Give KP time, I think he will turn out to be a better player than Jokic. I think Jokic is fantastic, but I believe it's grass is greener. As soon as you see a Jokic/Melo/Thomas frontline Knicks fans will be whining about how Jokic is horrible at protecting the basket and how many layups we give up.

Also, we never have invested in KP at the 5 full time. His rim protection makes him a huge asset defensively at 5, but we don't play him there right now because of two reasons. One, the roster is not made up in a way where KP should play 5. The other is KP's body is still not developped to the point where you want him to be banging inside 24-7. In a year, I see this as his full time position. Don't be surprised if at 23 in about 1 and half year from now, KP is a very good two way 5 in the league.


No doubt he eventually becomes a 5. I see his potential on the defensive end similar to Rudy gobert with his defense around the basket area.
nyknickzingis
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3/14/2017  7:11 PM
Yep that is Jokic's problem. He's a great asset on offense. Incredible screens. Passing. Scoring. You name it he can do it. But on defense, Denver allows so many layups and easy opportunities inside. The Knicks when KP is near the basket are excellent. KP's protection around the rim rivals that of what great championship teams have had at 5 with the likes of Bogut in Golden State, Chandler in Dallas. He really is effective if he is challenging shots at the basket. So if he can add the post base, the muscle needed in the lower body to be able to not get pushed around in the paint, I think he'll be a very good defensive Center.
Knixkik
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3/14/2017  7:27 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Yep that is Jokic's problem. He's a great asset on offense. Incredible screens. Passing. Scoring. You name it he can do it. But on defense, Denver allows so many layups and easy opportunities inside. The Knicks when KP is near the basket are excellent. KP's protection around the rim rivals that of what great championship teams have had at 5 with the likes of Bogut in Golden State, Chandler in Dallas. He really is effective if he is challenging shots at the basket. So if he can add the post base, the muscle needed in the lower body to be able to not get pushed around in the paint, I think he'll be a very good defensive Center.

Plus KP is way more versatile. He will start long-tern at center, but he easily slide over next to Willy and be just as productive. Jokic has proven to be essentially ineffective at PF. He is strictly an undersized center who is the complete offensive player, but you have to build around him a very specific way. Not comparing them as players, but it's like building around Melo. You have to surround him with specific players or it won't work. Denver has figured that out and is doing a nice job with it. Building around KP allows more flexibility. There are very few young players in the league who have the potential to be stars on both sides of the ball, and KP is one of them.
HofstraBBall
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3/14/2017  7:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2017  7:37 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Yep that is Jokic's problem. He's a great asset on offense. Incredible screens. Passing. Scoring. You name it he can do it. But on defense, Denver allows so many layups and easy opportunities inside. The Knicks when KP is near the basket are excellent. KP's protection around the rim rivals that of what great championship teams have had at 5 with the likes of Bogut in Golden State, Chandler in Dallas. He really is effective if he is challenging shots at the basket. So if he can add the post base, the muscle needed in the lower body to be able to not get pushed around in the paint, I think he'll be a very good defensive Center.

So we are defending KP's inability to defend at 4 because of his inexperience but Jokic can't improve his defense?? But look, it's never happening. My point was that it is silly to trade your proven up and coming Draft pick for future question marks. Only type of player you trade that type of guy for is a proven young asset. And that's if you feel your player does not compliment the roster, has holes or does not get along with team structure.

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Bonn1997
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3/14/2017  8:47 PM
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:We can re-sign KP for almost $200M over 5yr. Most he can get from other teams is more like $100M over 4yr. We'd have to screw up pretty bad to lose him.

Do we really want to do that?! He's going to have to improve a lot to be worth a max contract. I'm not saying it won't happen - it's a gamble. It's probably a gamble I would take but if you trade him for two high 1st round picks, you're getting 8 seasons of guys on rookie contracts rather than KP's 2 seasons.

On edit: I mean keeping him rather than looking for picks is a gamble I would take now. I have no idea at this point about maxing him out.

if we dont max him out we can use that money to sign 4 other guys who are more productive

I know you think you're joking but it depends on how much he improves. A team with KP at the level he's at now at $40 mil a year would be inferior to one with four strong role players. If he improves a lot, it's a different story.

Who thinks KP won't improve a lot more as he matures going forward? Just watching KP you can tell he's not close to reaching his peak yet. Let's remember that KP wasn't even expected to contribute for a few years!!! He's ahead of schedule.


Objectively, I would not say he's improved since last year. The only changes are that his shooting is a bit better and his rebounding is a bit worse. Almost all the metrics have him at the same as last year. So we don't know what his trajectory is.
JrZyHuStLa
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3/14/2017  8:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2017  8:56 PM
KP is the player you'd want as a result of trading for future picks.

Lock this nonsense already.
WaltLongmire
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3/14/2017  10:27 PM
fishmike wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:if they arent lottery picks forget it. While Porzingis will never be a superstar player he can be an impactful 3rd option along the lines of a poor mans Kevin Love

nykshaknbake wrote:I think there is a pretty good chance that when his contract is up, he doesn't want to remain part of this mess. And we will be in this same type of mess for 3 years minimum or more likely 5+. If we can get a couple 1st rounders for him at least we won't have lost him for nothing or be forced to trade him last minute for former Bulls players past their prime.

If we can can get a whole group of good young players on good contracts via drafting with lots of picks in the span of 1 or 2 years, we might be able to sign a couple of impact free agents and make a serious playoff run in the future.

lol @ "poor man's Kevin Love"

Lots of hate from Jmpasq...wow...

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nykshaknbake
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3/14/2017  11:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2017  11:15 PM
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:For all of you:

The OP never suggested KP wasn't going to improve or was a bad player. That makes about half of the posts here off topic.
I'm simply presenting a bad possible scenario. I'm suggesting to hedge our bets. If Kevin Durant could leave money on the table and leave a very very good Thunder team, you think it's impossible for KP to leave a team that has confusion from top to bottom every year? You want more than 2 picks? Fine. The thrust is that we convert KP into whatever equivalent asssets you can get that we'd have a easier time hanging onto. Noone in the league is untradeable outside of a few players.

How many non-super duds (like Anthony Bennett) have NOT been extended over the past 5-10 years? Maybe 1 or 2 players?

So you are willing to trade a Unicorn/potential franchise player for 2 non-unicorns just because.... just because you think over the next 3-5 years there will be constant dysfunction and KP may leave?


However many picks or assets you want. Everyone has a price. Doesn't have to be 2.

To your next point, you think in 3 years we are going to sudden;t have a competent and functional leadership?


Let's see, 1 first round pick over 3 years and some dead weight to get rid of... not an easy task. Within 2 years I think this team will work itself out.

Even when you draft Stephen Curry.... it takes a span of 5 year to get above 30 wins.

Even when you draft Durant (unicorn), and then Westbrook (all world), still takes those guys another year to get above 30 wins.

Minnesota has 2 overall #1 picks, the #5 pick in Dunn over the past 3 years and still need time.

Philadelphia? How good has it been for them that they kept trading picks?


With a normal management group and front office 2 years would be possible. But we've been spinning the wheels for over a decade. I'm going to say that continues until proven otherwise. KP is a great asset in the hands of a team that can develop players and provide direction. He won't become the star he can be here. If he's frustrated enough to make the comments he's making in year 2 what will that be in year 4? I could see him taking the QO and waiting a year to become an unrestricted free agent. If we could provide an even average environment I would say keep him but we have by far the worst basketball intangibles bar none.

I don't think this will happen but it's certainly wouldn't shock me: What if he continues to shoot mid 40s FG% with a below average amount of rebounds for a 7'3" guy and virtually no assists? Because the coaches here aren't elevating his game. Are you gonna give him the max then?

You all are making the mistake of overvaluing every young player that comes on a bad team. He's not Durant or Westbrook guys. It's not a given he's going to approach Nowitzki. You are all saying there is no price that would be high enough to get him. That's insanity. I'm not saying you just get 2 #1s for him, but some package primarily consisting of multiple draft picks.

To everyone crying heresy, lock the thread!: It's a shame you can't have a discussion with anyone that you don't agree with.
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