HofstraBBall wrote:You gotta love NY Knick fans. Their God is telling them the system and organazation, Uncle Phil has been in charge of for last three years, is a Fuckin mess and you geniuses try to make it about something else. Specially love the guy who translated, direct quotes, into something about Melo. Just Epic. Maybe he can translate when KP said he would be lost without Melo. Probably meant he wants him released. We can keep saying losing Melo and Rose will change things but that's just for guys who have their heads up their asses. If you think ANYONE on this team respects or thinks Phil's plan is a good one, your in Knick denial.

As for our biggest issues. DEFENSE. Don't know if the basketball gurus on UK saw yesterday's game. Or any other game but we Gave up an amazing amount of 3's to the Flippin Nets. We have been out of position all year. KP cant play the 4 and Melo cant play the 3. Done, Finished that's it. The only defensive squad that played well all year is with Anyone at 5, Melo at 4 and LT at 3!! What a ****ing surprise. Problem is when KP has to defend strong shooting 4's, he is lost, and usually in foul trouble. No matter how fast we get rid of Rose (rather have a true PG) and Melo (turned into a fraction of the player he was by Uncle Phil and fan base) we will still have to deal with our next in line being too skinny to play 5 and too slow to.play 4. Willy only complicates this. As if he plays 5 you will be forced to continue to play KP at 4. And can't wait to see how important ball movement is when no one is double teaming Melo and it ends up in hands of some of the all star we have put together in the last 3 years.

But back to topic. This was a clear shot at the whole Uncle Phil experiment. It's his way of saying what everyone in the NBA already knows, except Knicks fan base, that everyone sees Uncle Phil as a joke, the triangle as a joke and this franchise as a joke. Simple enough? Oh but wait, forgot about the Phil supporters logic, he didn't give away a draft pick. Agree, but a guy in a coma that did nothing could have done the same. But without adding to the ever growing stereotype that the Knicks organazation is a clown show that no one wants to play for. Lmk if you need examples of the **** he has done. So unless we get LBJ2, this is just 2001 all over again. Except now we are more of a joke, don't have the big market cap advantage and have a system no one wants to play for. But at least we have Noah for 3 more years!

Somewhat harsh, but overall I agree. Also, Melo has been downed by age and injuries. He's still decent, but he definitely can't be the first or second scoring option on a team that wants to win.

Otherwise, hey it is what it is. Phil has to hit in the lotto this year and probably next year. If we have three blue chip lotto talents and Willy and a few other young guys and good contracts, we can be ready to think about making the playoffs. Imho, only at that point should we be trying to add free agent talent.

stanleybostitch wrote:So Hofstra, when the Knicks make the playoffs next year (and the years after) sans Rose and Melo, will you be willing to admit you were wrong, and the path Phil has set us on in fact gets us to a long-term, sustained winning team?

How much are you willing to bet the Knicks make the playoffs next year?

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:The kid speaks the truth and the spin doctors go into overdrive..

Agreed. All the spin doctoring reminds of this commercial...

Hahahahaha that's great.

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:You gotta love NY Knick fans. Their God is telling them the system and organazation, Uncle Phil has been in charge of for last three years, is a Fuckin mess and you geniuses try to make it about something else. Specially love the guy who translated, direct quotes, into something about Melo. Just Epic. Maybe he can translate when KP said he would be lost without Melo. Probably meant he wants him released. We can keep saying losing Melo and Rose will change things but that's just for guys who have their heads up their asses. If you think ANYONE on this team respects or thinks Phil's plan is a good one, your in Knick denial.

As for our biggest issues. DEFENSE. Don't know if the basketball gurus on UK saw yesterday's game. Or any other game but we Gave up an amazing amount of 3's to the Flippin Nets. We have been out of position all year. KP cant play the 4 and Melo cant play the 3. Done, Finished that's it. The only defensive squad that played well all year is with Anyone at 5, Melo at 4 and LT at 3!! What a ****ing surprise. Problem is when KP has to defend strong shooting 4's, he is lost, and usually in foul trouble. No matter how fast we get rid of Rose (rather have a true PG) and Melo (turned into a fraction of the player he was by Uncle Phil and fan base) we will still have to deal with our next in line being too skinny to play 5 and too slow to.play 4. Willy only complicates this. As if he plays 5 you will be forced to continue to play KP at 4. And can't wait to see how important ball movement is when no one is double teaming Melo and it ends up in hands of some of the all star we have put together in the last 3 years.

But back to topic. This was a clear shot at the whole Uncle Phil experiment. It's his way of saying what everyone in the NBA already knows, except Knicks fan base, that everyone sees Uncle Phil as a joke, the triangle as a joke and this franchise as a joke. Simple enough? Oh but wait, forgot about the Phil supporters logic, he didn't give away a draft pick. Agree, but a guy in a coma that did nothing could have done the same. But without adding to the ever growing stereotype that the Knicks organazation is a clown show that no one wants to play for. Lmk if you need examples of the **** he has done. So unless we get LBJ2, this is just 2001 all over again. Except now we are more of a joke, don't have the big market cap advantage and have a system no one wants to play for. But at least we have Noah for 3 more years!

Somewhat harsh, but overall I agree. Also, Melo has been downed by age and injuries. He's still decent, but he definitely can't be the first or second scoring option on a team that wants to win.

Otherwise, hey it is what it is. Phil has to hit in the lotto this year and probably next year. If we have three blue chip lotto talents and Willy and a few other young guys and good contracts, we can be ready to think about making the playoffs. Imho, only at that point should we be trying to add free agent talent.

If Melo can't be the best or second scoring option on a winning team, what does that say about our team since he is currently the best option?

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:You gotta love NY Knick fans. Their God is telling them the system and organazation, Uncle Phil has been in charge of for last three years, is a Fuckin mess and you geniuses try to make it about something else. Specially love the guy who translated, direct quotes, into something about Melo. Just Epic. Maybe he can translate when KP said he would be lost without Melo. Probably meant he wants him released. We can keep saying losing Melo and Rose will change things but that's just for guys who have their heads up their asses. If you think ANYONE on this team respects or thinks Phil's plan is a good one, your in Knick denial.

As for our biggest issues. DEFENSE. Don't know if the basketball gurus on UK saw yesterday's game. Or any other game but we Gave up an amazing amount of 3's to the Flippin Nets. We have been out of position all year. KP cant play the 4 and Melo cant play the 3. Done, Finished that's it. The only defensive squad that played well all year is with Anyone at 5, Melo at 4 and LT at 3!! What a ****ing surprise. Problem is when KP has to defend strong shooting 4's, he is lost, and usually in foul trouble. No matter how fast we get rid of Rose (rather have a true PG) and Melo (turned into a fraction of the player he was by Uncle Phil and fan base) we will still have to deal with our next in line being too skinny to play 5 and too slow to.play 4. Willy only complicates this. As if he plays 5 you will be forced to continue to play KP at 4. And can't wait to see how important ball movement is when no one is double teaming Melo and it ends up in hands of some of the all star we have put together in the last 3 years.

But back to topic. This was a clear shot at the whole Uncle Phil experiment. It's his way of saying what everyone in the NBA already knows, except Knicks fan base, that everyone sees Uncle Phil as a joke, the triangle as a joke and this franchise as a joke. Simple enough? Oh but wait, forgot about the Phil supporters logic, he didn't give away a draft pick. Agree, but a guy in a coma that did nothing could have done the same. But without adding to the ever growing stereotype that the Knicks organazation is a clown show that no one wants to play for. Lmk if you need examples of the **** he has done. So unless we get LBJ2, this is just 2001 all over again. Except now we are more of a joke, don't have the big market cap advantage and have a system no one wants to play for. But at least we have Noah for 3 more years!

Somewhat harsh, but overall I agree. Also, Melo has been downed by age and injuries. He's still decent, but he definitely can't be the first or second scoring option on a team that wants to win.

Otherwise, hey it is what it is. Phil has to hit in the lotto this year and probably next year. If we have three blue chip lotto talents and Willy and a few other young guys and good contracts, we can be ready to think about making the playoffs. Imho, only at that point should we be trying to add free agent talent.

If Melo can't be the best or second scoring option on a winning team, what does that say about our team since he is currently the best option?

We need to rebuild, which I think we all know at this point

nyknickzingis wrote:KP said this at start of March and his March numbers are fantastic

------------------------

Kristaps Porzingis a fan of the Knicks’ triangle offense

ORLANDO, Fla. — Phil Jackson isn’t the only person who likes that the Knicks are playing more triangle. Kristaps Porzingis is a fan of the often-criticized offense and believes the Knicks should have been emphasizing it from the start of the season.

“We’re starting to learn it now the way we should [and] we should have been playing from the beginning of the season,” Porzingis said “So we’re a little behind. But every game we’re getting a little better. Hopefully, I don’t know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it.”

Porzingis, who returned Wednesday night after missing the past two games with a sprained right ankle, is happy the Knicks have gone back to utilizing more triangle since returning from the All-Star break last week. His opinion matters since the Knicks will be building around Porzingis.

Coach Jeff Hornacek said a goal for the rest of this season is to “continue to grow the offense,” and that the Knicks would evaluate players on whether they can play in it.

“I like the triangle,” Porzingis said. “My first season, the whole first season we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everybody believes in it and everybody executes it the right way.”

Again, this thread is not about the Triangle. It's about the team being in complete disarray with conflicting voices and agendas.

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:KP is a fan of the Triangle
That is not spin that is a fact
He said he wished the team ran it from start of the season !

This thread is not about the Triangle, it's about the team being a disorganized, dysfunctional mess from top to bottom. I don't think they could run any system competently with all the conflicting voices and agendas on the team from Phil to Melo to Rose to Hornacek.

So if KP the most important player moving forward believes in the Triangle why all this whining?
We all know the Melo/Rose/KP chemistry is crap.
KP confirmed it.
He also confirmed the coaches don't have a clue as how to fix it.

But if we listened to KP the team would run Triangle from day 1 and be the exact type of team many feared Rambis would make it had he been head coach.

Jeff tried to modernize the Triangle. He mixed in plenty of other stuff. The Knicks went from one of the lowest scoring teams in the league to middle of the pack. We increased our offense output considerably despite the poor chemistry of Rose n Melo.

To me that screams bad fit as players than bad coaching.

Get Horny some young athletic players no Melo drama and a real point guard and let's see. I want to give him a fair shake. He is a very good coach on offense.

Rambis talked about playing KP at small forward. Why? Because he's an idiot.

This thread is about a direct quote KP made, saying the entire team is a confused mess. That's why all the whining.

It's not about the Triangle. The Triangle coached right might work. But that is not what is happening in NY. And it's a mistake to blame only Melo and Rose. Not excusing them, but saying people are deluding themselves if they think that's the only problem.

crzymdups wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:So Hofstra, when the Knicks make the playoffs next year (and the years after) sans Rose and Melo, will you be willing to admit you were wrong, and the path Phil has set us on in fact gets us to a long-term, sustained winning team?

How much are you willing to bet the Knicks make the playoffs next year?

_If_ we jettison Rose and Melo, I would make a gentleman's bet that we'll make the playoffs next year. If we don't the dysfunction will continue and we'll spin our wheels.

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks 14-15 91.9 ppg (30th)
Knicks 15-16 98.4 ppg (27tg)
Knicks 16-17 105.5 ppg (14th)

We have made progress on offense
The way we play under Horny is the right style and direction in this era

We need better defensive players. A better PG. Also he needs to get the defensive assistant who is with the Cavs now who was with him in the Phoenix run.

HofstraBBall wrote:You can't rebuild without a plan or vision..The builders are just as important as the pieces..As long as there are no plans and no vision, we will be spinning our wheels..

This is where we disagree. I believe Phil and cos have a plan and vision --> 1) move to system ball, 2) build through the draft, 3) augment with smart FA signings when the team is ready to compete, 4) rinse and repeat for sustained success. It really is as simple as that. The challenges we have right now are because A) there are holdouts to #1 (players who don't want to play system ball), B) we are still in process of #2, and will be for the next 2yrs, and c) are not really ready to go all-in on #3 yet - as evidenced by the cluster that signing Rose n Noah demonstrate.

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks 14-15 91.9 ppg (30th)
Knicks 15-16 98.4 ppg (27tg)
Knicks 16-17 105.5 ppg (14th)

We have made progress on offense
The way we play under Horny is the right style and direction in this era

We need better defensive players. A better PG. Also he needs to get the defensive assistant who is with the Cavs now who was with him in the Phoenix run.

The Knicks were right around 14 before they began emphasizing the triangle. Why you would go in and focus on the offense when you have a defense ranked in the bottom 5?

My guess is because that's what everyone has talked about: the Triangle and how bad it is, that's the emphasis, whereas the trend there seems to be getting better. And you are right, the defense is what's poor for the Knicks.

There are so many components to making a good team and executing it. Talent, health, cohesion, planning and commitment to it. How long does it take to get from piss poor to playoffs?

2014-15 was an obvious tear down year. You had Gallo and Larkin starting, LT and Bargs and Shved too. That's rock bottom. You get KP for that.

Unfortunately the Knicks didn't have a pick after the next year.

What is the expectation of a team that has 1 pick in 3 years? Seattle/OKC took 2 full years of Durant and Westbrook - 2 all world guys before they got out of the 30 win range.

Let's look at GS. Curry's first year was 2009-2010. 26 Wins. (2008-2009 they got 29 wins to GET the curry pick). 2010-2011 was a 36 win season and netted Thompson. 2011-12 they win 23 games. At this point Knicks fans would have traded both Curry and Thompson many times over. The next year they finally got out of the below .500 range for 47 wins (that was the year Green had an eFG% of .354 and averaged 2.9PPG on 13MPG - he gets traded by Knicks fans too).

Essentially they had to go through 4 years of bad play to lay a foundation of team philosophy (and one could argue that didn't really kick in until 2 years after that), the right players, the right coach, etc.

This **** takes time.