newyorker4ever wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Wow... I totally thought this was going to be a Seth Curry plug.

That being said I not only agree but would take it a step further. Look to move Melo this offseason and go into next offseason with substantial cap space. I would not bring Rose back either. Go with Randle, Baker, whoever we draft and can bring in. Develop a real young core of players. Keep the cap space. The real offseason is after next year, where the Knicks will have KP, Willy and this year's pick under rookie deals. Ideally you look to sell a pair of elite FAs to play with KP/Willy/prospect etc...

If the Knicks execute this offseason they could be looking at a liquid roster of good young players and over $50mm in cap space. Of course that puts Phil and "execute" in the same sentence. Hopefully we get another KP type player. Plenty of boos followed by great play

I WISH you and other people would stop saying this, because you make it seem like management holds the cards.. It's like saying if we can get trump out of office by the end of the year will be a better country.

It should be "IF melo waives his NTC" which all signs are pointing to him NOT doing that.

I think Melo might waive his NTC if Phil makes it clear he's going to focus on a youth movement. Melo should seriously consider a better situation for him to win now.

But a all out youth movement who take years upon years. Phil has already use 46 different players in 3 seasons. The most in the NBA in the same time frame. The goal is to find out what melo wants to do?

small moves are the better option

First off no one said anything about a FULL ON youth movement. This ain't Philly! This team has some vets but a New Wave of young players are on the way! I don't know how this hasn't sunk into your view of what is happening with this team. IMO this team is going to get younger this summer and that is only the logical thing to do.

It's not likely that Phil will completely strip the team again. It's not necessary at this point. However, I don't expect anymore old vet signings like we did last summer.

It certainly will be interesting. Young guys on the bubble in my opinion, Kuz, Holiday, Ndour. I think O'Quinn probably gets traded. Does Phil go draft and stash with the two second round picks? Is Rose brought back. I don't think anything is set. I hope the Knicks don't have 5 centers on the roster next year and I would like to see Sasha leave or join the coaching staff.

I am pretty high on Kuz, he needs consistent minutes and some plays called for him. He basically needs confidence. He is the best at moving without the ball that I have seen from any Knick in many many years. He is long lean and fluid and I think he is also very competitive. I definitely hope we keep him. He should be our starting SF next season, heck I think he should start for the rest of this season as well. Bring Melo off the bench. The "threeuro frontline" - there I coined it.

That's a lot of love for Kuz who hasn't really been all that good especially the last month or so. I like him but he's definitely not starter material. I'm actually surprised that some of you are saying you wouldn't re-sign J.Holiday. I really like him and he's the one that should be getting more playing time. He play both sides of the floor and would love to see him, C.Lee and L.Thomas on the floor more together in small ball lineups.

He is not a starter on a good team. On a rebuilding team people like him should be allowed to start to see what they can bring and if they can develop different facets of their game to meet the NBA skill test. Not all draft picks or FA signings will be made to order starters. We need to develop players - In his case he should play more D and hit his 3pointers consistently. We will need to have a good SF (Starter or backup) depending on what we draft.

I definitely want Justin and Lee back

Whether Melo moves is immaterial, we just shouldn't plan anything that includes him.

meloshouldgo wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Wow... I totally thought this was going to be a Seth Curry plug.

That being said I not only agree but would take it a step further. Look to move Melo this offseason and go into next offseason with substantial cap space. I would not bring Rose back either. Go with Randle, Baker, whoever we draft and can bring in. Develop a real young core of players. Keep the cap space. The real offseason is after next year, where the Knicks will have KP, Willy and this year's pick under rookie deals. Ideally you look to sell a pair of elite FAs to play with KP/Willy/prospect etc...

If the Knicks execute this offseason they could be looking at a liquid roster of good young players and over $50mm in cap space. Of course that puts Phil and "execute" in the same sentence. Hopefully we get another KP type player. Plenty of boos followed by great play

I WISH you and other people would stop saying this, because you make it seem like management holds the cards.. It's like saying if we can get trump out of office by the end of the year will be a better country.

It should be "IF melo waives his NTC" which all signs are pointing to him NOT doing that.

I think Melo might waive his NTC if Phil makes it clear he's going to focus on a youth movement. Melo should seriously consider a better situation for him to win now.

But a all out youth movement who take years upon years. Phil has already use 46 different players in 3 seasons. The most in the NBA in the same time frame. The goal is to find out what melo wants to do?

small moves are the better option

First off no one said anything about a FULL ON youth movement. This ain't Philly! This team has some vets but a New Wave of young players are on the way! I don't know how this hasn't sunk into your view of what is happening with this team. IMO this team is going to get younger this summer and that is only the logical thing to do.

It's not likely that Phil will completely strip the team again. It's not necessary at this point. However, I don't expect anymore old vet signings like we did last summer.

It certainly will be interesting. Young guys on the bubble in my opinion, Kuz, Holiday, Ndour. I think O'Quinn probably gets traded. Does Phil go draft and stash with the two second round picks? Is Rose brought back. I don't think anything is set. I hope the Knicks don't have 5 centers on the roster next year and I would like to see Sasha leave or join the coaching staff.

I am pretty high on Kuz, he needs consistent minutes and some plays called for him. He basically needs confidence. He is the best at moving without the ball that I have seen from any Knick in many many years. He is long lean and fluid and I think he is also very competitive. I definitely hope we keep him. He should be our starting SF next season, heck I think he should start for the rest of this season as well. Bring Melo off the bench. The "threeuro frontline" - there I coined it.

That's a lot of love for Kuz who hasn't really been all that good especially the last month or so. I like him but he's definitely not starter material. I'm actually surprised that some of you are saying you wouldn't re-sign J.Holiday. I really like him and he's the one that should be getting more playing time. He play both sides of the floor and would love to see him, C.Lee and L.Thomas on the floor more together in small ball lineups.

He is not a starter on a good team. On a rebuilding team people like him should be allowed to start to see what they can bring and if they can develop different facets of their game to meet the NBA skill test. Not all draft picks or FA signings will be made to order starters. We need to develop players - In his case he should play more D and hit his 3pointers consistently. We will need to have a good SF (Starter or backup) depending on what we draft.

I definitely want Justin and Lee back

Whether Melo moves is immaterial, we just shouldn't plan anything that includes him.

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Wow... I totally thought this was going to be a Seth Curry plug.

That being said I not only agree but would take it a step further. Look to move Melo this offseason and go into next offseason with substantial cap space. I would not bring Rose back either. Go with Randle, Baker, whoever we draft and can bring in. Develop a real young core of players. Keep the cap space. The real offseason is after next year, where the Knicks will have KP, Willy and this year's pick under rookie deals. Ideally you look to sell a pair of elite FAs to play with KP/Willy/prospect etc...

If the Knicks execute this offseason they could be looking at a liquid roster of good young players and over $50mm in cap space. Of course that puts Phil and "execute" in the same sentence. Hopefully we get another KP type player. Plenty of boos followed by great play

I WISH you and other people would stop saying this, because you make it seem like management holds the cards.. It's like saying if we can get trump out of office by the end of the year will be a better country.

It should be "IF melo waives his NTC" which all signs are pointing to him NOT doing that.

I think Melo might waive his NTC if Phil makes it clear he's going to focus on a youth movement. Melo should seriously consider a better situation for him to win now.

But a all out youth movement who take years upon years. Phil has already use 46 different players in 3 seasons. The most in the NBA in the same time frame. The goal is to find out what melo wants to do?

small moves are the better option

First off no one said anything about a FULL ON youth movement. This ain't Philly! This team has some vets but a New Wave of young players are on the way! I don't know how this hasn't sunk into your view of what is happening with this team. IMO this team is going to get younger this summer and that is only the logical thing to do.

It's not likely that Phil will completely strip the team again. It's not necessary at this point. However, I don't expect anymore old vet signings like we did last summer.

It certainly will be interesting. Young guys on the bubble in my opinion, Kuz, Holiday, Ndour. I think O'Quinn probably gets traded. Does Phil go draft and stash with the two second round picks? Is Rose brought back. I don't think anything is set. I hope the Knicks don't have 5 centers on the roster next year and I would like to see Sasha leave or join the coaching staff.

I am pretty high on Kuz, he needs consistent minutes and some plays called for him. He basically needs confidence. He is the best at moving without the ball that I have seen from any Knick in many many years. He is long lean and fluid and I think he is also very competitive. I definitely hope we keep him. He should be our starting SF next season, heck I think he should start for the rest of this season as well. Bring Melo off the bench. The "threeuro frontline" - there I coined it.

That's a lot of love for Kuz who hasn't really been all that good especially the last month or so. I like him but he's definitely not starter material. I'm actually surprised that some of you are saying you wouldn't re-sign J.Holiday. I really like him and he's the one that should be getting more playing time. He play both sides of the floor and would love to see him, C.Lee and L.Thomas on the floor more together in small ball lineups.

He is not a starter on a good team. On a rebuilding team people like him should be allowed to start to see what they can bring and if they can develop different facets of their game to meet the NBA skill test. Not all draft picks or FA signings will be made to order starters. We need to develop players - In his case he should play more D and hit his 3pointers consistently. We will need to have a good SF (Starter or backup) depending on what we draft.

I definitely want Justin and Lee back

Whether Melo moves is immaterial, we just shouldn't plan anything that includes him.

Kuz is very likable. But he is 27. He is on a cheap deal but Rosen wasn't very positive about him and I assume he is speaking for Phil. Also, at the deadline Kuz was in a rumored trade to the Suns.

I have no idea how Phil views Kuz or even how Jeff views him. His salary is cheap so of course he will be on trade rumors, he is very moveable. He is 27, I get it but he is a second year player in the NBA - he may have waited too long, but I think he can still improve. I am just saying we give him a shot - start him for the rest of the season see what he can do. We are not making any commitments but we need to evaluate our talent at SF.

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Unless you are getting an LBJ Dwayne Wade Kwami Leonard type--dont spend big bucks.

Use the draft and be smart with free agency. Use the D league and smaller trades.

Im not fooled by our performance against Orlando--but you can see the bones of what could be if we stay down a certain path

Wait - we're you the one who wanted us to pursue Jrue Holiday?

Different day, different opinon?

I agree and I disagree with Briggs on this one.

To me, the methodology should be

A) Can the player defend his own position at least at a league average level consistently
B) Will the player play team basketball
C) Will the contract encompass no more than ONE YEAR into a decline phase for a veteran player
D) Will the player be able to help the Knicks RIGHT NOW
E) Will the player have the upside to help the Knicks in the future
F) Will the player and his contract retain variable and desirable trade value given the current NBA marketplace conditions
G) No extensive injury history and/or off the court trouble history

A guy could make 2 million a year and fit this criteria. He could make 20 million a year and fit this criteria.

Harrison Barnes can defend multiple positions, he can defend the wing, he's young, he can drop a 3 point shot, he can play team basketball, he has playoff pedigree, his contract will not enter his likely decline phase, he can help the Knicks right now ( well then), he could help in the future, even with a larger AAV, he is a player with legit trade value.

Robert Covington is making close to nothing with the 76ers. He would also be a value signing, albeit with more flaws than someone like Barnes.

How much you spend is relative to what VALUE YOU ARE GETTING. This principle applies everywhere. You could spend 100 dollars on a really good hand tool of some kind. Given it's value, useful ability and possible longevity, it could actually be a "bargain" Or you could go to a discount bin somewhere and spend 10 bucks on a sh!tty tool that is vastly overpriced and poorly made.

Knicks should consider VALUE, not just raw COST in absolute terms. Cost is a factor, but it's a factor when the flaws are magnified.

The above criteria IMHO is what the Knicks should use to go after FAs. And if they can't find any? THEN use the cap space to try to absorb bad expiring deals from other teams in exchange for lower picks. You won't get a lottery pick to take on Jamal Crawfords bad contract, but maybe you'll get a couple of 2nds.

Once a team hits the salary floor mandated by the league, then any unused cap space is a waste of resources. It's not like the Knicks are going to get a refund check for cap space that rolls over into a new year. Use it or lose it, once you are above the floor.

It's at this point, when you can't find VALUE FAs and have to use your cap space to rent out for fringe assets, that you start mining hard in the D league and UDFAs and castoffs from other teams, who don't have the roster space. A Kent Bazemore is an example, he couldn't get rotation time in a stacked Warriors lineup. Is he a perfect player? No. Is he worth his current deal? No. But was he a great value at 2 years and 4 million when the Hawks signed him? Absolutely.

Robin Lopez was a "smart signing" He only cost cap space, no other assets. He could help now, he could help later, he was not going to enter into a massive decline early into his contract. He can and does play team ball. He had trade value. He was durable. He could defend his own position. He is not a "sexy" signing, but he is an effective one. Never let the pursuit of great be the death of simply being very good. Very good is perfectly acceptable to build a roster.

When should the Knicks "overpay" You overpay WITH POSITIONAL VALUE. A guy who can defend the rim and have enough offense to keep teams honest. A guy who can defend the wing and hit a 3 point shot consistently. On top of the other criteria above. Then that's when you do a slight overpay to get the guy on your roster. What you don't do is overpay LOW POSITIONAL VALUE like point guard or power forward. They aren't always easy to find, but much easier than elite wing and elite pivot.

The guys Briggs usually wants don't met the A-G criteria. Guys like Enes Kanter, or Greg Monroe or Jrue Holiday. Those are cap killing, morale killing, franchise killing type acquisitions.

Spending SMART does not automatically mean NOT SPENDING AT ALL. Again, once you are above the cap floor, dead cap space is a wasted resource. I'm not saying spend just to spend, but empty cap space sitting through a season to season roll over doesn't help anyone.

Also D League guy are D Leaguers for a reason. I'm not saying none are worth a flier, I am saying there is a limit and balance where your minutes to be distributed( also having VALUE) should not be burned so carelessly with guys with little upside. Some guys will have upside, but many will not. There is a balance to mine the D League but not become a Triple A type franchise, where Quad A type players get way too much burn.

It's not rocket science. It's sticking to VALUE and sticking to a patient and progressive plan to rebuild. That means no quick fixes, just flip that two pennies into a nickel. That dime and a nickel into a quarter. Those three quarters into a dollar. Do it over and over and good things will happen.

Most of you I'm guessing watched Pepper Johnson play LB for the Giants. He was not LT. But he was a great player. Because he was CONSISTENT. You knew you could rely on him and he would give you solid and outstanding play, game after game. The problem with what Briggs does is it's not consistent. You can't rebuild and win and reload by changing your mind every week. There needs to be a real plan and philosophy that runs through the entire franchise and every part, the coach, the GM and owner, need to be in lock step to that vision.

WITHOUT STABILITY, nothing else matters for this franchise. You want to get good at something? You work at it, day after day, grind after grind, with discipline, with commitment, taking small steps and achieving day after day. The Knicks have wanted to shortcut success and failed, because it always fails. Briggs wants some magic pill or signing because it's a shortcut for success. And that too will fail, because it always fails.

You can spend a lot, even on one player, and spend wisely. It's just harder to do.

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NY_KnicksPR/status/840285891834843136

At this point, I'd rather be giving him minutes with the Knicks- helps with the tank and his development