EnySpree wrote:Rose definitely has to go...he's a big chip. If a team wants a bench scorer or extra firepower for the playoffs or want to dump a contract.... Rose is a big big chip. If teams wanna be stupid then we can just keep him and let him walk after the season.

Kenny Smith of TNT said it best, playoff ball is different because every single possession becomes critical. Your margin for error shaves to nothing the farther you advance. It becomes a chess game of individual matchups.

The Heat, with their Big Three, simply had no answer for JJ Barea. The first year, they also did not have Birdman. Not a huge difference, but you don't need a huge difference to lose a playoff series.

Rose does not play defense. He does not play efficient team basketball and not even what is considered nominal playoff style ball. He does not hit the three point shot at an elite rate. He cannot create his own shot as he did when he was younger and less injured. For teams pushing forward, most don't have the expiring bad contracts to dump to do a salary match for him. There is also the issue of team rapport, teams who gel together over time play better together. Introducing a new element can disrupt everything ( When the Mavs traded for Rondo, but moved Crowder and a critical rotation center to do so)

Also Rose might not even show up for the game apparently.

Rose has literally close to no trade value. Teams might pounce if Rose gets a buyout and can pick his new team as a low cost, but I doubt many see Rose and his limitations as some kind of magic pill to push them over the top.

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Why do we want Love with KP, KOQ and Willy here? Makes zero sense.

The Knicks need to upgrade the back court and get younger if possible

If you are rebuilding, you take the talent, you build your asset base and figure it all out later.

The 49ers had Joe Montana, why would trading for Steve Young from Tampa Bay be a good idea? Who cares, stockpile the talent and figure the rest out later. When the 49ers had Montana and Young, they got Steve Bono, good enough to start for half the league at the time. Why do you need a solid 3rd string QB? Who cares, stockpile the talent anyway.

If the Jets had young Darrelle Revis and could draft a couple of solid cornerbacks anyway in the late draft rounds, who cares if the Jets need more corners, take the talent, figure the rest out later.

If the Knicks can get Kevin Love and don't take him in a trade because they have Zinger already, that's insane. Who care how he fits, take the talent and figure it all out down the road.

Ah, just like the Isaiah Thomas years...

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Ah, just like the Isaiah Thomas years...

Huge difference between a legit All Star, at 28, like Love and guys with red flags like Francis, Marbury, James, Curry, etc.

If you can trade Melo and get Love ( this trade will never happen, never ever happen in real life though), you do it and you never look back and you think the Basketball Gods that it happened.

Didnt you learn anything from amare? K Love may be breaking down with back and knee issues- I only take him if we're guaranteed to move him for a pick- if we got stuck with a maxed out Klove who plays the same position as KP, it would be ridiculous, we'd just be re-creating the Amar'e years.

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Didnt you learn anything from amare?

A low IQ guy dependent on plus athleticism and could not/would not play defense, also could not defend the rim and did not have an elite three point shot to space the floor?

At MINIMUM, Love is an elite Stretch 4 PF. Even if everything else falls apart. He can bomb from range and do it consistently. He's a very heady and high IQ player who can adapt his game. No, he cannot defend the rim and he's not an elite defender, but he offers so much more than a broken down STAT.

And he'd be a MASSIVE return over any other trade scenario for Melo. Like I said, the trade would not happen, but if it could and the Knicks were offered it, it would be insane not to take it.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:small tear in the knee is not a big deal if you let it heal.
Bringing him back to the playoffs might not be a good thing.
Love does not have a NTC.
Phil can give them Jennings as well. That solves their back up point problem.
If Love can't play, they can't contend for a chip.

take Love off that team. Who in the East beats them to the Finals?

The Washington Wizards. They manhandled OKC last night. They are gelling like a contender right now. If it keeps up, they may actually be the best in the East after the Cavs. Without Love, Cavs are not contenders.

NYKBocker wrote:I don't think Melo is going anywhere. The problem with Melo is his alpha mentality. He has not accepted yet that he needs to step back a little and hand the reigns to KP and the younger guys. I like Melo now. Did not like him when he got here but he has won me over. The fact that he likes and protects KP is a good reason for that.

The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.

I agree with all this.

Rose is the real issue. He's just the wrong fit for the team, and the wrong fit for the NBA in 2017.

Hopefully we can draft a real PG prospect like Fox and keep Jennings for cheap. That alone would make next year much much better.

At this point, why trade Melo for a bag of golf balls? KP has shown he likes having Melo around to help take the pressure off him. Melo can opt out at the end of next season - I think there's a high chance he does to go play with CP3 and Lebron. I don't see any reason to force it before then and lock ourselves into Austin Rivers for three years. Austin Rivers is not a playmaking PG.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't think Melo is going anywhere. The problem with Melo is his alpha mentality. He has not accepted yet that he needs to step back a little and hand the reigns to KP and the younger guys. I like Melo now. Did not like him when he got here but he has won me over. The fact that he likes and protects KP is a good reason for that.

The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.

I agree with all this.

Rose is the real issue. He's just the wrong fit for the team, and the wrong fit for the NBA in 2017.

Hopefully we can draft a real PG prospect like Fox and keep Jennings for cheap. That alone would make next year much much better.

At this point, why trade Melo for a bag of golf balls? KP has shown he likes having Melo around to help take the pressure off him. Melo can opt out at the end of next season - I think there's a high chance he does to go play with CP3 and Lebron. I don't see any reason to force it before then and lock ourselves into Austin Rivers for three years. Austin Rivers is not a playmaking PG.

I no longer think this is a positive, especially when I watch KP's role in the offense when Melo is on the floor. Much prefer running the offense through the young guys and let them take their lumps. Otherwise we are a 35 win team with Melo and that is the WORST position in the NBA to be in. Thats Jordan Hill vs. Steph Curry. We need to do this right. Willy is showing he's a build around guy. We have KP. Its not enough. We need another blue chipper.

35 wins would be a career high for Phil. I don't see this team winning 30.

The Love injury, to me, opens up Cleveland as a possibility for Melo where it was not before.

But you really want to take back Shumpert, Frye and a bunch of crap instead of just paying Melo for one more year and then he opts out at the end of 2018?

To me we'd have to get back something worthwhile to tie up the cap room. Austin Rivers or Shumpert aren't really doing it for me.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't think Melo is going anywhere. The problem with Melo is his alpha mentality. He has not accepted yet that he needs to step back a little and hand the reigns to KP and the younger guys. I like Melo now. Did not like him when he got here but he has won me over. The fact that he likes and protects KP is a good reason for that.

The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.

I agree with all this.

Rose is the real issue. He's just the wrong fit for the team, and the wrong fit for the NBA in 2017.

Hopefully we can draft a real PG prospect like Fox and keep Jennings for cheap. That alone would make next year much much better.

At this point, why trade Melo for a bag of golf balls? KP has shown he likes having Melo around to help take the pressure off him. Melo can opt out at the end of next season - I think there's a high chance he does to go play with CP3 and Lebron. I don't see any reason to force it before then and lock ourselves into Austin Rivers for three years. Austin Rivers is not a playmaking PG.

I no longer think this is a positive, especially when I watch KP's role in the offense when Melo is on the floor. Much prefer running the offense through the young guys and let them take their lumps. Otherwise we are a 35 win team with Melo and that is the WORST position in the NBA to be in. Thats Jordan Hill vs. Steph Curry. We need to do this right. Willy is showing he's a build around guy. We have KP. Its not enough. We need another blue chipper.

35 wins would be a career high for Phil. I don't see this team winning 30.

The Love injury, to me, opens up Cleveland as a possibility for Melo where it was not before.

But you really want to take back Shumpert, Frye and a bunch of crap instead of just paying Melo for one more year and then he opts out at the end of 2018?

To me we'd have to get back something worthwhile to tie up the cap room. Austin Rivers or Shumpert aren't really doing it for me.

Its always about opportunity. Its such a deep draft and 5-8 slots will be the difference between a good player and a franchise player. Sure great ones fall and high ones bust but the averages tell a story. Higher = better.