holfresh wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/829820226569195520

Who does Phil think he is..He thinks he is living in the '70s and his name is Superfly.."Let it be" and the masses calmed down..

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/MikeAndMike/status/829713218415190017

Yep. Phil and Dolan have done more damage to the Knicks in one week than a million Melo Isos.

How so? Iso melo ensures no coach can ever implement their system- the only coach melo liked was Woody and that's because he just ran iso-melo on offense in close games.

Keeping Melo means, more of the same for the next two years, it hinders KPs development, He'll keep getting frozen out of the offense and won't get a lot of experience in close games because Melo will almost always take the last shot. Keeping Melo means your franchise player doesn't play defense. Keeping Melo means you've tied your ship to a player who would rather beat Phil in a p-ing contest than win a championship. Phil was trying to pressure Melo to go- that was noble intent because it needs to happen, keeping Melo does nothing at this point for us or him.

I remember JVG used to call players out in the press all the time, now one tweet (which was 100% the truth) is treated like genocide, it's pathetic.

That's false about Woody only ran ISO Melo..Woody mostly ran a hybrid of MDA PnR with Felton ..He did run ISO Melo as well..Nic was giving credit to MDA for Woody's success if I remembered correctly..

What's false is you thinking Woodson Ran an offense.... they gave Melo the ball every time down. Melo led the league in scoring. Hybrid MDA offense? That's what the media said. Truth is he took over what MDA wanted to do and forced fed Melo. He had super vets like Kidd, Sheed, and the rest keeping everyone in check. Kidd ran that team best believe.

EnySpree wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/MikeAndMike/status/829713218415190017

Yep. Phil and Dolan have done more damage to the Knicks in one week than a million Melo Isos.

How so? Iso melo ensures no coach can ever implement their system- the only coach melo liked was Woody and that's because he just ran iso-melo on offense in close games.

Keeping Melo means, more of the same for the next two years, it hinders KPs development, He'll keep getting frozen out of the offense and won't get a lot of experience in close games because Melo will almost always take the last shot. Keeping Melo means your franchise player doesn't play defense. Keeping Melo means you've tied your ship to a player who would rather beat Phil in a p-ing contest than win a championship. Phil was trying to pressure Melo to go- that was noble intent because it needs to happen, keeping Melo does nothing at this point for us or him.

I remember JVG used to call players out in the press all the time, now one tweet (which was 100% the truth) is treated like genocide, it's pathetic.

That's false about Woody only ran ISO Melo..Woody mostly ran a hybrid of MDA PnR with Felton ..He did run ISO Melo as well..Nic was giving credit to MDA for Woody's success if I remembered correctly..

What's false is you thinking Woodson Ran an offense.... they gave Melo the ball every time down. Melo led the league in scoring. Hybrid MDA offense? That's what the media said. Truth is he took over what MDA wanted to do and forced fed Melo. He had super vets like Kidd, Sheed, and the rest keeping everyone in check. Kidd ran that team best believe.

nyknickzingis wrote:^
And what happened to Woodson the next year? Lottery.
Same old same old.

It won't ever change so long as the team relies that heavily on an inefficient isolation ball dominat player.
You have to transform the way the team plays. High intensity on defense. Ball and player movement on offense.

And who are these high intensity defensive players you are referring to?

holfresh wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:^
And what happened to Woodson the next year? Lottery.
Same old same old.

It won't ever change so long as the team relies that heavily on an inefficient isolation ball dominat player.
You have to transform the way the team plays. High intensity on defense. Ball and player movement on offense.

And who are these high intensity defensive players you are referring to?

There's 3 ways you can get these kinds of players.

1- Melo trade. Get the best assets available and turn them into that.
2- Draft. Not hard to draft athletic young players. Easiest way.
3- Free Agency. Hardest way because most players available are coming off their 2nd long term deal and are 27/28 or older. They may not have the most gas left in the tank.

I think all we have to do is value athleticism and defense. Hornachek's system is very fast paced and there's no way older declining players have enough gas in their tank to play high pace (lots of running) and then run back and play hard on D.

nyknickzingis wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:^
And what happened to Woodson the next year? Lottery.
Same old same old.

It won't ever change so long as the team relies that heavily on an inefficient isolation ball dominat player.
You have to transform the way the team plays. High intensity on defense. Ball and player movement on offense.

And who are these high intensity defensive players you are referring to?

The ones you scout, draft and develop.
Or if you see à Jae Crowder or someone like that available you get him in a Melo deal.

There's 3 ways you can get these kinds of players.

1- Melo trade. Get the best assets available and turn them into that.
2- Draft. Not hard to draft athletic young players. Easiest way.
3- Free Agency. Hardest way because most players available are coming off their 2nd long term deal and are 27/28 or older. They may not have the most gas left in the tank.

I think all we have to do is value athleticism and defense. Hornachek's system is very fast paced and there's no way older declining players have enough gas in their tank to play high pace (lots of running) and then run back and play hard on D.

First of all, your plan is to build around Porzingus and Willy who cannot defend any frontline position...So please stop pulling the wool over others, certainly not my, eyes talking that you care about defense all of a sudden...

holfresh wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP, Hernangomez, Holiday, , Kuz, Lee, KOQ are all keepers. All brought to you by Phil.

Jennings loves being here and for $5M is a good backup pg and spot started. Baker has promise as does Plumlee. I don't see much with Ndour but he has not played much. Sasha is there for KP support and leadership. He does it fine.

Noah, Rose were moves made to try and win now with Melo because that is what Melo wanted. These guys were supposed to lead. They have not. That is why you get up and down performances. They show glimpses. That is all. They are a mentally weak team. The team leaders provide that. IT can come from the coach, GM etc...but they are NOT on the court. The players are.

I wish Phil would not tweet and keep things in house. From reading his book, I am very surprised at this. The bottom line is that none of us know what is going on in the background between Phil and Melo. Everything reported is hearsay. IMO, from what I see on the court most nights, (Clippers exception), the team needs to move on from the Melo years. Phil should tell him that face to face. Move Melo and Rose. Get a top 10 pick, cap space and maybe some young talent and try again next year.

If Phil was doing what Melo wanted, Why didn't he bring in Aldridge for a sit down..That's what Melo wanted...

If Melo wanted Aldridge why didn't he get him to come here?

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP, Hernangomez, Holiday, , Kuz, Lee, KOQ are all keepers. All brought to you by Phil.

Jennings loves being here and for $5M is a good backup pg and spot started. Baker has promise as does Plumlee. I don't see much with Ndour but he has not played much. Sasha is there for KP support and leadership. He does it fine.

Noah, Rose were moves made to try and win now with Melo because that is what Melo wanted. These guys were supposed to lead. They have not. That is why you get up and down performances. They show glimpses. That is all. They are a mentally weak team. The team leaders provide that. IT can come from the coach, GM etc...but they are NOT on the court. The players are.

I wish Phil would not tweet and keep things in house. From reading his book, I am very surprised at this. The bottom line is that none of us know what is going on in the background between Phil and Melo. Everything reported is hearsay. IMO, from what I see on the court most nights, (Clippers exception), the team needs to move on from the Melo years. Phil should tell him that face to face. Move Melo and Rose. Get a top 10 pick, cap space and maybe some young talent and try again next year.

If Phil was doing what Melo wanted, Why didn't he bring in Aldridge for a sit down..That's what Melo wanted...

If Melo wanted Aldridge why didn't he get him to come here?

Phil didn't want to talk to him...More importantly I want to dispel the idea that Phil is thinking about Melo...

nyknickzingis wrote:

Uptown wrote:Reggie Miller tweeted..."lf your a Free agent, why would you play for an owner who treats past geeats like this and a president who stabs star players in the back?"...this is the perceprion out there. You saw chris paul call what the knicks did "diplorable" to oakley...wade, lebron all tweeted support for oak...as was previously stated, phil and dolan have done more damage to the image of the knicks that Melo has...thats for sure..#wideawake

That's nice and all.
How many free agents came to play with good ole Melo before Phil did this? Dolan is a tool I have always disliked him. But let's be real.

Melos buddies were free agents

LeBron - never met with NY
Wade - never came to NY
Paul - in 2013 quickly re-signed with Clippers never really looked at New York for a sign and trade deal.

Those are his 3 best buds in the league.

You know who actually came? Guys who have a relationship or respect for Phil or Rose.

Dwight wanted to come to NY last summer.
Rose came and wanted to be in NY.
Noah came for Rose and had a relationship with Phil (even though Phil didn't serve us well with this one)
Lee came at a reduced price because of Noah.
BJ came for his love of NY.

2015
RoLo came for Phil and Ny
DWill
Afflalo

The fact is Free agents weren't lining up to come here anyway. Those who were signing with us, were doing so because of a connection to Phil, Noah, Rose or NY. That won't change. The Knicks only major free agent signing in the last 15 years was Amare. So please. It's nice and all that they think this but the Knicks weren't drawing quality star free agents anyway.

We will still be able to sign players of the 2015 or 2016 category easily. Free agency should be seeen as a way to shore up your role players. You get the stars in the draft or by stealing players late in the draft. This is how we got KP. We have to keep making good draft picks.

Completely agree- I wish people would look at the CBA, look at what happened the last few seasons and see the writing on the wall. After Wade, Lebron and Bosh teamed up, the CBA was designed to specifically to stop that happening again so it kind of killed rebuilding via free agency. The big three decision fooled Knick fans into thinking that was how we would return to prominence, when in reality it was a freak event that was quickly shut down (you can only pull it off anyways if one of your big three was player you drafted).

Sure you can get lucky and once in a while sign a Milsap,or an IT, or maybe you can add a final piece by free agency, but for the most part top players (and even garbage players with a glimmer of potential) will get maxed out when restricted for the first time, so the first time they really become available is when they're approaching 30. So then you're having to fork out an even large max contract for a diminishing player.

If top players do leave their team and all the extra money, they tend to do it only to go to a team with championship potential- if you're not even a playoff team, you're stuffed!

The only way now is to build through the draft, pick up more picks by helping facilitate trades or selling off role players to playoff teams, sign some bargain players who fell through the cracks in the offseason (free agency is more about adding role players now)- honestly, there is no other way. people thinking we're going to sign CP3 or some magical player in each offseason are high! Most players stay home.

smackeddog wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP, Hernangomez, Holiday, , Kuz, Lee, KOQ are all keepers. All brought to you by Phil.

Jennings loves being here and for $5M is a good backup pg and spot started. Baker has promise as does Plumlee. I don't see much with Ndour but he has not played much. Sasha is there for KP support and leadership. He does it fine.

Noah, Rose were moves made to try and win now with Melo because that is what Melo wanted. These guys were supposed to lead. They have not. That is why you get up and down performances. They show glimpses. That is all. They are a mentally weak team. The team leaders provide that. IT can come from the coach, GM etc...but they are NOT on the court. The players are.

I wish Phil would not tweet and keep things in house. From reading his book, I am very surprised at this. The bottom line is that none of us know what is going on in the background between Phil and Melo. Everything reported is hearsay. IMO, from what I see on the court most nights, (Clippers exception), the team needs to move on from the Melo years. Phil should tell him that face to face. Move Melo and Rose. Get a top 10 pick, cap space and maybe some young talent and try again next year.

Holiday, Lee, Kuz, and KOQ are not keepers if the plan is to rebuild imho. Holiday contract is up and will won't more money than what his production on the floor will merit. Kuz is a 27 y/o rookie who has one more year left and on top of that doesn't play defense and is regressing. Lee is a grizzly vet that has too many years left on his contract and is now only good at one thing and the thing he is good at he doesn't do it enough for it to really make a difference on the floor. KOQ was a good singing but he only has one year left since he can opt out of the last year of his deal and then you will have to pay him $10m+ for a player that might regress and will be losing athleticism year by year and he doesn't have that much to begin with. When his ability to protect the rim goes he becomes a slow methodical big who can't defend pnrs. Plumlee and Baker are not worth mentioning due to their little amount of playing time.

A lot of people knew who Rose was and what he probably would look like. A lot of people knew Noah and loved Noah but still had an idea of what he was in this stage of his career. These are people with less than half the resources of Phil and still they understood that those two were not a good fit and that giving Noah a 4yr deal was one of the most idiotic deals in the league especially when Noah was just coming off of 2 yrs of reduced production. Alos, Phil brought in Rose on top of knowing that a civil suit was coming that would keep him out of the preseason and take away team chemistry. Phil basically started the dysfunctional season with the Rose move because of the baggage he carried on top of being a bad player.

I would give a lot of thought to keeping Lee as we need veteran leadership, you need a fair few players to help the young ones- keep him and Noah for leadership, maybe add Rubio.

Only way I move Lee is if it helps get melo to Cavs so we can do a deal with Boston (I'd even take on Shumpert or JRs contract for that!). I'd consider moving Lee if it helps to get Melo to the Clips AND we can then move Redick for 2 late first rounders or a mid first.

Lee should have been moved when he was leading the league in 3pt%. You can get a cheaper option for leadership. If you can still move him for a pick or two you do it regardless of Melo.

The knicks have no choice but to keep Noah. The only way they get out of his contract is if he retires.

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/MikeAndMike/status/829713218415190017

Yep. Phil and Dolan have done more damage to the Knicks in one week than a million Melo Isos.

How so? Iso melo ensures no coach can ever implement their system- the only coach melo liked was Woody and that's because he just ran iso-melo on offense in close games.

Keeping Melo means, more of the same for the next two years, it hinders KPs development, He'll keep getting frozen out of the offense and won't get a lot of experience in close games because Melo will almost always take the last shot. Keeping Melo means your franchise player doesn't play defense. Keeping Melo means you've tied your ship to a player who would rather beat Phil in a p-ing contest than win a championship. Phil was trying to pressure Melo to go- that was noble intent because it needs to happen, keeping Melo does nothing at this point for us or him.

I remember JVG used to call players out in the press all the time, now one tweet (which was 100% the truth) is treated like genocide, it's pathetic.

That's false about Woody only ran ISO Melo..Woody mostly ran a hybrid of MDA PnR with Felton ..He did run ISO Melo as well..Nic was giving credit to MDA for Woody's success if I remembered correctly..

What's false is you thinking Woodson Ran an offense.... they gave Melo the ball every time down. Melo led the league in scoring. Hybrid MDA offense? That's what the media said. Truth is he took over what MDA wanted to do and forced fed Melo. He had super vets like Kidd, Sheed, and the rest keeping everyone in check. Kidd ran that team best believe.

So why was everyone so fond of giving Jason Kidd credit for the ball movemen and why did Doc Rivers claim that Ray Felton was the MVP if the opening playoffs after the way he ran the offense?..No so easy to pitch the hate without facts is it?

You lost me....