nixluva wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

nixluva wrote:TOTALLY DISAGREE! Rose and Melo are the team leaders and have boatloads of talent. They are surrounded by some good role players. Teams win when their BEST players excel. Neither Rose nor Melo do enough on both ends not pass enough to make this team successful. That is the real reason for the team losing. Don't put this on Phil. Rose and Melo are giving less and less effort and more and more ISO and DIY offense. Noah we all know has limitations but he does give everything he has. Can't say the same for Rose and Melo tho.

And who traded for Rose and gave Melo that big extension with a no trade clause? Im sure it was’t the coach. IT WAS PHIL.

boy.. talk about tunnel vision. You act like he had a choice. There wasnt. His only option was to resign Melo. To suggest letting him walk for nothing was an option is nothing but total denial. There were no trade options. He was a UFA with offers from other teams.

I have a lot more confidence in Phil drafting and adding players that give us a real future than I do in Melo ever being part of a core that can be a top team in the east.

Exactly right.

But over $250 mil in cap space was used on Melo, Rose, Lee, and Noah. Do you not think a good GM should have gotten better return out of that much money? These are all players with average to below average advanced stats and negative on/off point differentials. It's $250 mil spent on these guys and the team is not even playing better when they're on the court.
I will agree that his draft choices have panned out well. He's 1 for 3 in terms of drafts, trades, and FA signings.

LIKE WHO??? Who was coming here? Didn't we go thru the Free Agent markets and do all the recruiting? I mean why are we acting like there are some hidden guys we didn't get that would've made this a title team.

Noah = overpaid but gives what he has
Rose = Expiring
Jennings = Expiring
Lee = fair contract
Melo = Trade Bait

Phil has not ruined the franchise or locked us into a lot of bad long term contracts. Phil has 3 picks in this draft and the chance for more if he can work trades. This franchise has a chance to rebuild the right way, so Phil has not be as bad as the recent losing and drama might suggest.

More KOQ, Kuz, etc. signings and smart draft picks until you have a team that can attract legit top FAs. It's not that hard to beat the net negative impact that these 4 players (Melo, Lee, Noah, Rose) are making. We would not be worse than we are now.(If we were, it would just mean a better pick anyway, but I doubt we would be.) There's just no point in spending $250 mil on guys currently hurting the team. You're paying to lose games. It's like paying a guy to come rob you.

I agree that it's been a waste of money, but I think Melo asked for help to try and make the playoffs and Phil tried to do that. It hasn't all come together and Thank God Rose is an expiring contract cuz he simply isn't giving max effort nor playing TEAM BALL. BJ just isn't that good but he does try. Melo takes too many plays off on the defensive end and has abandoned DadMelo to the detriment of the team.

I think Phil would agree that he's spent too much for very little results. I fully expect him to move towards a full rebuild at this point.

Phil didn’t spent money, we wasted money and resources, you are expecting a full rebuild yet for all we hear, the Knicks are pushing hard for Kevin Love. That goes your management.

Why not get a good player rather than a bunch of nobodies just to match the salaries?

What good players are you talking about? The Knicks over paid for bad players. I would have rather the Knicks sign a young Bismack Biyombo for 70 million than a soon to be 32 years old Joakim Noah. You see I don’t think Biyombo is great, I just think that the risk is less considering that one is still developing while the other one is already declining. Why corner yourself?

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....

You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.

Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....

You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.

Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...

Again who’s to say the Knicks will rebuild thru the draft, for all we know they are NOT pushing the Celtics for young players and picks, they are pushing the Cavs HARD for Kevin Love. How is that rebuilding thru the draft? You see the Knicks haven’t show any inclination of that yet.

KnicksFE wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....

You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.

Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...

Again who’s to say the Knicks will rebuild thru the draft, for all we know they are NOT pushing the Celtics for young players and picks, they are pushing the Cavs HARD for Kevin Love. How is that rebuilding thru the draft? You see the Knicks haven’t show any inclination of that yet.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

nixluva wrote:TOTALLY DISAGREE! Rose and Melo are the team leaders and have boatloads of talent. They are surrounded by some good role players. Teams win when their BEST players excel. Neither Rose nor Melo do enough on both ends not pass enough to make this team successful. That is the real reason for the team losing. Don't put this on Phil. Rose and Melo are giving less and less effort and more and more ISO and DIY offense. Noah we all know has limitations but he does give everything he has. Can't say the same for Rose and Melo tho.

And who traded for Rose and gave Melo that big extension with a no trade clause? Im sure it was’t the coach. IT WAS PHIL.

boy.. talk about tunnel vision. You act like he had a choice. There wasnt. His only option was to resign Melo. To suggest letting him walk for nothing was an option is nothing but total denial. There were no trade options. He was a UFA with offers from other teams.

I have a lot more confidence in Phil drafting and adding players that give us a real future than I do in Melo ever being part of a core that can be a top team in the east.

Exactly right.

But over $250 mil in cap space was used on Melo, Rose, Lee, and Noah. Do you not think a good GM should have gotten better return out of that much money? These are all players with average to below average advanced stats and negative on/off point differentials. It's $250 mil spent on these guys and the team is not even playing better when they're on the court.
I will agree that his draft choices have panned out well. He's 1 for 3 in terms of drafts, trades, and FA signings.

LIKE WHO??? Who was coming here? Didn't we go thru the Free Agent markets and do all the recruiting? I mean why are we acting like there are some hidden guys we didn't get that would've made this a title team.

Noah = overpaid but gives what he has
Rose = Expiring
Jennings = Expiring
Lee = fair contract
Melo = Trade Bait

Phil has not ruined the franchise or locked us into a lot of bad long term contracts. Phil has 3 picks in this draft and the chance for more if he can work trades. This franchise has a chance to rebuild the right way, so Phil has not be as bad as the recent losing and drama might suggest.

More KOQ, Kuz, etc. signings and smart draft picks until you have a team that can attract legit top FAs. It's not that hard to beat the net negative impact that these 4 players (Melo, Lee, Noah, Rose) are making. We would not be worse than we are now.(If we were, it would just mean a better pick anyway, but I doubt we would be.) There's just no point in spending $250 mil on guys currently hurting the team. You're paying to lose games. It's like paying a guy to come rob you.

How is the signing of KUZ and KOQ smart if they wind up losing anyway??..There is more that goes into winning than player contract..If you sign a bad coach or employ a sucky system it's a waste of money too because you don't utilize the players in their best scenarios...So assessing the reason you are losing is paramount..But saying it expensive underperforming contracts is false and inconclusive at best...

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....

You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

nixluva wrote:TOTALLY DISAGREE! Rose and Melo are the team leaders and have boatloads of talent. They are surrounded by some good role players. Teams win when their BEST players excel. Neither Rose nor Melo do enough on both ends not pass enough to make this team successful. That is the real reason for the team losing. Don't put this on Phil. Rose and Melo are giving less and less effort and more and more ISO and DIY offense. Noah we all know has limitations but he does give everything he has. Can't say the same for Rose and Melo tho.

And who traded for Rose and gave Melo that big extension with a no trade clause? Im sure it was’t the coach. IT WAS PHIL.

boy.. talk about tunnel vision. You act like he had a choice. There wasnt. His only option was to resign Melo. To suggest letting him walk for nothing was an option is nothing but total denial. There were no trade options. He was a UFA with offers from other teams.

I have a lot more confidence in Phil drafting and adding players that give us a real future than I do in Melo ever being part of a core that can be a top team in the east.

Exactly right.

But over $250 mil in cap space was used on Melo, Rose, Lee, and Noah. Do you not think a good GM should have gotten better return out of that much money? These are all players with average to below average advanced stats and negative on/off point differentials. It's $250 mil spent on these guys and the team is not even playing better when they're on the court.
I will agree that his draft choices have panned out well. He's 1 for 3 in terms of drafts, trades, and FA signings.

LIKE WHO??? Who was coming here? Didn't we go thru the Free Agent markets and do all the recruiting? I mean why are we acting like there are some hidden guys we didn't get that would've made this a title team.

Noah = overpaid but gives what he has
Rose = Expiring
Jennings = Expiring
Lee = fair contract
Melo = Trade Bait

Phil has not ruined the franchise or locked us into a lot of bad long term contracts. Phil has 3 picks in this draft and the chance for more if he can work trades. This franchise has a chance to rebuild the right way, so Phil has not be as bad as the recent losing and drama might suggest.

More KOQ, Kuz, etc. signings and smart draft picks until you have a team that can attract legit top FAs. It's not that hard to beat the net negative impact that these 4 players (Melo, Lee, Noah, Rose) are making. We would not be worse than we are now.(If we were, it would just mean a better pick anyway, but I doubt we would be.) There's just no point in spending $250 mil on guys currently hurting the team. You're paying to lose games. It's like paying a guy to come rob you.

yea... he ADDED those. He needed to add higher caliber talent. Impact players that would get Melo back to the playoffs. You seem to not be able to understand this.

You cant add Kuz and KOQ and say "we are trying to give Melo enough talent to get back to the playoffs."

There were two agendas here and you simply fail to address that. Phil had Melo to deal with and "are we moving fast enough for you."
Then he had a roster devoid of young talent he had to deal with as well. His moves to get Melo players that would help Knicks back the playoffs have obviously failed. His moves to add young talent have been excellent. You like to cherry pick in hindsight. You are not looking at reality.

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....

You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.

Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...

its crazy how almost every sport show and media outlet is basically saying Phil hasn't a clue and needs to go, but a few loyal Phil fans want to see him stay and continue to press the reset button every yr, just because be drafted KP,

Even he rebuilds now, and wait 3 more years for playoff hopes, your looking at 7 straight yrs of no playoff basketball, and people are cool with that,