stopstandthere wrote:The biggest achievement of Phil was to pick KP .

And Phil is accoutable to Dolan. As long as Dolan is happy with current status, I do not think Phil has anything to worry about.

No one was asking whether phil should worry. He's already set for life.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:Now is the time.

Tyson Chandler huge mistake. Signing Derek Fisher to a long term deal, huge mistake. Trading Shumpert and JR for nothing, mistake. Signing Noah huge mistake.

Talking through Rosen huge mistake.

Taking Knick job... biggest mistake. I think its obvious after Walsh, Isiah, Phil that this franchise will never learn, and neither will the fans.

Phil has done something no other GM has. He's kept our pick and added young talent. If we flounder we increase our chance of a blue chip player in the draft. Most of the very good teams were bad long enough to amass that talent in the draft. Green, Curry, Klay come to mind. Its very tough to quickly turn things around in the NBA. It happens yes, but assuming you can duplicate those circumstances isnt realistic. I think he's doing it right. He's added good player and drafted well. It will click when it clicks.

Or we could "hold Phil accountable" for our hurt feelings and 2nd guess every move, despite knowing how silly that is anyway. Tell me the GM you want why its going to be different.

Cracks me up when people like Briggs cry about the signings when the guy was pining to pay Allan Crabbe $18mm a year and the guy is total trash. Noah's value will present itself in time and Lee is a tradable player.

Fair enough. Dont think feelings have anything to do with it. If its fair game to call out players deficiencies, why not a GM's? Second guessing asside. Specially when some were bad judgements. Not to mention, we are talking about Phil Freakin Jackson. Kinda of a higher expectation? No? If Gaines was the one that wanted KP, then we can say that Phil's use was in FA. And sure, guys like Lee filled a void and made sense regardless of how he plays. Noah though? Age, injury history and on a decline? And you sign him for starter money? Rose, injury history, bad fit. Not a great decision either. Would expect more from PJ. Are these his only mistakes and is it a decent batting average. Sure. But thread was, when do we hold him accountable? 3 years, 4,5?

You asked who would do better? Well we would have to know who is working non stop in the office, on the phones building ties, working to make the organazation a player friendly destination, building a consistent hard working enviroment full of excellent flowing communnication channels . Cant say that anyone knows the answer but can tell you there are probably a lot of GM's out there doing these things 24/7.

Yes.. it would be nice if we could drafted the next Lebron and Durant decided to sign here, but there needed to be a realistic understanding that this might not be easy quick or simple, that we may have to grind out talent for a few years before this team is good. That may even include a trip or two to the lottery, although I am still not convinced that will be the case.

Very few teams in the NBA have dramatic 180s, and when you see huge swings and win totals its often preceded by a down period where that team acquired players. I mean as for calling out players I mean waaaa... should Melo be babied? Is saying he ball hogs too much a bad things? Im not where I see this issues... I get more worried when guys like Layden and Isiah used to talk about how much they liked their (25win) teams.

Phil, like any other executive is accountable for all that is good, and all that is bad.
What are we talking about? He should be fired? Would you be happy with an unproven 30 year old analytic jr executive from the Spurs with advance degrees from MIT? The promise of that would be nice, but the next day:

WE still have melo, and every asset and problem we did the day before. Removing the decision maker does not undo a thing, nor promise the future. All it does is give change and hope.

Phil changed the thought process that plagued us for year. That alone is worth 12mil a year.

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

This...I hate that the Knicks drama always seem to play-out on the worlds stage. If he wants to trade Melo, why not tell him that? But do it behind the scenes where something can be worked out. These passive aggressive digs at Melo though his media buddy does nothing but perpetuate the circus-like atmosphere that surrounded this franchise for decades.

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

me too. I live in Boston (and hate but respect the Boston teams). The analysts and reporters here, believe it or not, actually say nice things about their teams and GMs -- not all negative.

it's not endemic of being a reporter. NY right now has a bunch of bellyaching, crybabies with nothing to contribute postively

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

This... Was this part of the Phil's chronicles? Or is Melo simply failing the eye test? It does carry more weight with Rosen because he's Phil mouthpiece. Maybe not this time he wasnt but everyone knows the connection so its understandable that the questions are going to be asked. The PROBLEM with the questions arent regarding Rosen/Phil, the problem is that Melo is a one dimensional scorer who is losing his legs and his team's losses are mounting. I mean what is more important? Melo's ego of the Knicks?

agreed. Have people actually read Rosen's piece? it's on fanrag, and it's not a hatchet job. If he wanted to he could have demonstrated everything with video. When is the last time anyone saw Melo sprint back on defense, or for that matter even on offense?

I didn't read the piece, but I've read Pjax's books (who here has done that?) and Phil does crap like this to get the TEAM to respond not only as a TEAM, but as a team that becomes a stronger unit. He wants these guys to be like an Indian war party. Sometimes the easiest way to do that is to give them a common enemy. Who better than Phil?

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.

I'm in this boat

There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.

Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.

Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?

Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.

If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.

Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate though

If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?

If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.

why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?

When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.