knicks1248 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If it's about the Knicks benching him definitely Jeff and Kurt.

It think it's clearly a jab and Jeff and Kurt... characters look similar and ask the players have been critical of the defense. The players are out there so they need to execute. Sucks that we have to go through this again

Well it shows you how dumb Lee is if it's a jab he has been a huge disappointment on the defensive end.... he should really be disappointed with himself for his lack of production.... he always has been a solid bench guy not a starter... baker is the better all around player and it showed today.

Idk, why is it that every decent solid defender that comes to the knicks turns into a less than an avg defender. Even galloway and Lopez started out good and became bad real fast, Now they are both back to being solid.

Rose was never a good defender, but at no point on the Bulls was he this laid back on D.

cleaarly this is About JH and Rambis..JH has already had players throw towels at him, and no one knows wtf rambis is doing but phil

I think we should stop the switching on defense and from what i see is that when we do switch is when one or two of our guys end up losing a player to defend cause they both stay with one guy so the other one ends up standing wide open somewhere so our on court communication with each other needs to get better or just stop switching and everyone stays with their man.

EnySpree wrote:How come that pressure didn't effect Ewing? Sprewell, Camby? Jason Kidd? It didn't effect even the bums like Othello, Eisley and Shandon....

We have Rose, Courtney Lee, Joakim Noah, Melo and a bunch of hardworkinh pros behind them.... I would have never thought we would have problems with this group to this degree. Growing pains yes.... but this? Its insane. They want the fans to be cool but we are. We're just done. It's like come on. Play the game and stop worrying about us.

fwk00 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If it's about the Knicks benching him definitely Jeff and Kurt.

It think it's clearly a jab and Jeff and Kurt... characters look similar and ask the players have been critical of the defense. The players are out there so they need to execute. Sucks that we have to go through this again

Well it shows you how dumb Lee is if it's a jab he has been a huge disappointment on the defensive end.... he should really be disappointed with himself for his lack of production.... he always has been a solid bench guy not a starter... baker is the better all around player and it showed today.

This is spot on.

If Rambis, Hornacek or both are going to be blamed for the poor defence of Melo, Rose, and Lee then they should be given credit for Baker, Holiday, Thomas, Porzingis, and the rest of the players busting their asses to win.

We have watched this film endlessly - "its the coach's faults". Or the Triangle, or Phil, or Dolan.

WHAT ABOUT THE PLAYERS WHO LACE IT UP EVERY GAME?

If Lee posted this he's toast in NY. Cold-cocking the coaches on social media will not sit well anywhere.

Quite frankly, I'm okay with players self-selecting their way out the door. Overall, Lee was not bringing enough to the defensive end to be effective. Period. Yeah, he shot well enough to have good stats but not good enough to stop offensive runs from opposing teams when it would actually stem the tide.

Baker and Holiday EARNED their time. They aren't mailing it in. If Hornacek sits everyone of those over-priced stars for the rest of the year I'm good with it. Enough is enough.

Lee came here at a bargain price. He's produced offensively to the same level he has everywhere else in his career. Last year he was a starter on a very good defensive team in Charlotte. Before that, good defensive teams in Memphis and Boston.

And yet it's somehow his fault that he comes to the Knicks and their defense is a mess and their management of the team, the players, the roster, is a joke?

LOL. fwk00 if I didn't know better I might think you were an MSG employee.

On the flip, someone like Baker, Holiday, and even Kuz, fight hard. They have limitations but their effort is good. I don't think Rose, Lee and Melo played this year like veterans on a good team should. I think they expected things to come in easy, when instead they should have been leading by example.

Just to show how far away Rose is from reality, he called this team a super team. Sure we were talented. Very talented. Super team talent? No way. The vets on this team play for the name on the back not the front. They are exceptions such as Noah, who I think tries his best but his physical decline is hurting his impact and effectiveness. However Melo, Rose and Lee, as good as their numbers are for their role, their defensive effort has been poor. They don't hustle on defense at all. You can't be good when your big minute players don't play any defense.

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:^
Lee plays zero defense like Rose. I've been watching closely the players that take defensive possesions off. The worst culprits are the veterans outside of Noah (who gives max effort most of the time). The fact is as vets they were supposed to set an example and show what a winning culture is like. Instead Rose plays for Rose. Lee plays for Lee. Melo plays for Melo. The 3 of them are almost always slow on rotations, easily taken through a screen.

On the flip, someone like Baker, Holiday, and even Kuz, fight hard. They have limitations but their effort is good. I don't think Rose, Lee and Melo played this year like veterans on a good team should. I think they expected things to come in easy, when instead they should have been leading by example.

Just to show how far away Rose is from reality, he called this team a super team. Sure we were talented. Very talented. Super team talent? No way. The vets on this team play for the name on the back not the front. They are exceptions such as Noah, who I think tries his best but his physical decline is hurting his impact and effectiveness. However Melo, Rose and Lee, as good as their numbers are for their role, their defensive effort has been poor. They don't hustle on defense at all. You can't be good when your big minute players don't play any defense.

Remember this line from early in the season? November 3rd, to be precise -

Starting guard Courtney Lee tells ESPN’s Ian Begley that he can solve some of their issues with one simple thing. Practice.

“We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that’s what other teams are running.”

I think a lot of this problem does come down to coaching and lineups on the floor.

Yesterday I turned off the game in the first quarter when the Hawks had gone small and Hornacek put KOQ and Noah on the floor to counter.

The Knicks have looked good defensively when Courtney Lee and Holiday play defense TOGETHER. When the Knicks have two wings who can cover the perimter out there.

The fact that the Knicks have been plagued by the same exact defensive issue AGAIN and AGAIN - teams getting WIDE OPEN threes... that's coaching to me. MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT. It's not Courtney Lee - it's the defensive scheme and the lineup on the floor. Which means either Rambis or Hornacek is in charge of making the proper adjustments.

A lot of this comes down to the structural issue with the team - Melo is a FOUR. CLee is a solid SG... but we need a real SF in the starting lineup. I like Kuz, but he gets cooked on defense. Rose is not a good defender. Without KP in the middle, the team is in trouble defensively. Noah has lost most lateral and vertical quickness he had. KOQ is solid.

I think this team could be fixed with some rotation adjustments... but CLee would be part of my solution. He's not part of the problem.

Coach could have went with Holiday instead of Kuz for defense at the start because the ATL teams isn't a high octane offensive team..But he opted for offense..He is an offensive minded coach...

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crzymdups wrote:

Andrew wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:Rose 6 TO's, Melo 5 TO's, Jennings 2 TO's. The minutes that Jennings is playing are killing the team. He's not bringing the leadership off the bench this team needs. This team simply can't win if the vets aren't performing at acceptable levels. These close losses are all about execution!!! Poor execution has been the kiss of death for this team in a lot of these inexcusable losses to teams they should've beaten. This team is UNDERPERFORMING IMO. That is on the shoulders of the VETS like Lee who should look in the mirror.

I've said this so many time this season: I've never seen a team pass the ball directly to the opponent as much as I have seen it from the Knicks this year. I don't know WTF is up with that. And the stupid TO's that Jennings and Rose have are unfathomable from PGs. Incredibly so.

Yes. Totally bizarre plays. This isn't the CYO league.

It kinda reminds me when I was a kid playing pickup, and you had to remember who was on your team (no uniforms) and someone fakes you out and calls you to pass the ball when they were really on the other team....and you fall for it.

I really don't want to go through firing another coach... but when a team seems that out of sync... isn't it the coaching? Simplify the playbook.

What is most confusing to me, though, is I felt like the team already went through this and had turned this corner. There's some regression here that is hard to understand.

I'm latching on to the theory that the Knicks were winning on talent more than teamwork early on. And when teams started to figure out what to do exactly, it became harder to win just on talent from Melo, Rose, KP. And somehow KP has regressed a little and is not 100%, Rose took a step backwards after back back spasms, Melo shooting on and off cause of shoulder, and Jennings has pretty much disappeared.