HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

Your the only one stating you want him to be like someone. I said I would prefer "to have" a traditional position talent. Like KAT or Embid. And he is no Dirk...yet. Dirk had/has a great post up game

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

Your the only one stating you want him to be like someone. I said I would prefer "to have" a traditional position talent. Like KAT or Embid. And he is no Dirk...yet. Dirk had/has a great post up game

KP is looking like he's gonna develop a post game and already has a LOT of what he needs to have a complete game. I don't know what you think you see from this kid but he's not that far off IMO. He came back this season with improved handles and I would expect him to continue to work in the offseason to add more to his game and his body. I don't see anything to suggest he won't be able to finish developing his post game. Nothing wrong with his feet or balance when he's moving and doing his Dream Shake. I think you might need to go back and look at KP's games this year before the Achilles. He had some really great games and looked to be on schedule to me.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

Your the only one stating you want him to be like someone. I said I would prefer "to have" a traditional position talent. Like KAT or Embid. And he is no Dirk...yet. Dirk had/has a great post up game

KP is looking like he's gonna develop a post game and already has a LOT of what he needs to have a complete game. I don't know what you think you see from this kid but he's not that far off IMO. He came back this season with improved handles and I would expect him to continue to work in the offseason to add more to his game and his body. I don't see anything to suggest he won't be able to finish developing his post game. Nothing wrong with his feet or balance when he's moving and doing his Dream Shake. I think you might need to go back and look at KP's games this year before the Achilles. He had some really great games and looked to be on schedule to me.

agreed. He is the one bright spot right now. Now we gotta continue draft well and add pieces around him so we have a longterm contending team. It will take time but it will work because of the type of talent he is

This draft could really see this team pick up a few quality additions if things go right. Despite all the pain of going thru this losing there really isn't any panic IMO cuz this team is still in a position to move on from this season and rebuild. Cap space and Draft Picks will still be tools for this team this summer and there are some young guys to develop on the roster already. It's not a doomsday situation. KP just needs to make sure to get FULLY HEALTHY before coming back.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.

That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

The conversation shouldn't be "is he a future star". It should be "how do we build this team to best give him a chance to be a future star." Building with him vs. building around him is just semantics. The future of this franchise hinges on the ability to develop him into a star. And we are lucky he has the talent to do so. No one in minnesota is saying "what if Towns doesn't become a star." Knicks fans are so accustomed to things going wrong. We just have to hope things fall into place, and build the team like they will.

Towns won ROY and already is closer to being a star than Porzingis (so there's less uncertainty about his downside). "Semantics" refers to meaning, and there is a difference in meaning between building with vs. around. Building around IMO means you're expecting the player to be the superstar and all decisions are built around that expectation. If the player doesn't become a star, what do you do? Building with just means you try to get good players at good deals, and you view him as being an important piece.

Well i would build "around" KP. It is a gamble, but one worth taking. Towns might have less downside, but he is putting up some pretty empty stats in Minn right now. KP probably has slightly more upside than Towns too. I think as fans we are so accustomed to failure that we don't know a good thing when we have it. If every NBA analyst out there is talking about KP's unique abilities and unlimited upside, and being one of the brightest young players the league has seen in a long time, i think we should just take them at their word and not overthink it.

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

Your the only one stating you want him to be like someone. I said I would prefer "to have" a traditional position talent. Like KAT or Embid. And he is no Dirk...yet. Dirk had/has a great post up game

KP is looking like he's gonna develop a post game and already has a LOT of what he needs to have a complete game. I don't know what you think you see from this kid but he's not that far off IMO. He came back this season with improved handles and I would expect him to continue to work in the offseason to add more to his game and his body. I don't see anything to suggest he won't be able to finish developing his post game. Nothing wrong with his feet or balance when he's moving and doing his Dream Shake. I think you might need to go back and look at KP's games this year before the Achilles. He had some really great games and looked to be on schedule to me.

Would be silly to sit here and argue that KP is not a good player..Specially at such a young age. Never sais that. As stated, I feel he floats and prefers and outside game. He is not a natural bruiser or post up player, which I prefer for a power forward or center. Thats it, all opinion. Can he learn it?... possibly but time will tell. Is it his natural game? No. He naturally floats to outside shots, wants to cross people over and make moves from 3pt. line. Can guys like Davis and KAT develop a 3pt shot? Possibly but their natural game is down lown and points in the paint.

blkexec wrote:Sitting out with achilles soreness is not injury prone. It's very smart. Coming from someone with an achilles tear in both ankles.

Ouch!

Bonn1997 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

Your the only one stating you want him to be like someone. I said I would prefer "to have" a traditional position talent. Like KAT or Embid. And he is no Dirk...yet. Dirk had/has a great post up game

KP is looking like he's gonna develop a post game and already has a LOT of what he needs to have a complete game. I don't know what you think you see from this kid but he's not that far off IMO. He came back this season with improved handles and I would expect him to continue to work in the offseason to add more to his game and his body. I don't see anything to suggest he won't be able to finish developing his post game. Nothing wrong with his feet or balance when he's moving and doing his Dream Shake. I think you might need to go back and look at KP's games this year before the Achilles. He had some really great games and looked to be on schedule to me.

Would be silly to sit here and argue that KP is not a good player..Specially at such a young age. Never sais that. As stated, I feel he floats and prefers and outside game. He is not a natural bruiser or post up player, which I prefer for a power forward or center. Thats it, all opinion. Can he learn it?... possibly but time will tell. Is it his natural game? No. He naturally floats to outside shots, wants to cross people over and make moves from 3pt. line. Can guys like Davis and KAT develop a 3pt shot? Possibly but their natural game is down lown and points in the paint.

You're not a fan of dirk then? A 7 footer who can hit 40% on 3s is incredible. What hurts is that he's only hitting about 35% of his mid range shots. I would like to see him get in the paint more instead of taking those shots. I'll grant you that.

How many guys with his length have to do this nightly?

I was a bit annoyed that they did not have him add some upper body muscle in the off season. They talked about him working on his lower body, but I can't understand why he did not do both.

He also failed to do significant work on his 5-7ft and in post-up game. I will again say that watching a 7'3" guy do crossover dribble pull-up jumpers is fun to watch, but guys are missing the big picture- he will only become great when he can score inside.

Bonn1997 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

Your the only one stating you want him to be like someone. I said I would prefer "to have" a traditional position talent. Like KAT or Embid. And he is no Dirk...yet. Dirk had/has a great post up game

KP is looking like he's gonna develop a post game and already has a LOT of what he needs to have a complete game. I don't know what you think you see from this kid but he's not that far off IMO. He came back this season with improved handles and I would expect him to continue to work in the offseason to add more to his game and his body. I don't see anything to suggest he won't be able to finish developing his post game. Nothing wrong with his feet or balance when he's moving and doing his Dream Shake. I think you might need to go back and look at KP's games this year before the Achilles. He had some really great games and looked to be on schedule to me.

Would be silly to sit here and argue that KP is not a good player..Specially at such a young age. Never sais that. As stated, I feel he floats and prefers and outside game. He is not a natural bruiser or post up player, which I prefer for a power forward or center. Thats it, all opinion. Can he learn it?... possibly but time will tell. Is it his natural game? No. He naturally floats to outside shots, wants to cross people over and make moves from 3pt. line. Can guys like Davis and KAT develop a 3pt shot? Possibly but their natural game is down lown and points in the paint.

You're not a fan of dirk then? A 7 footer who can hit 40% on 3s is incredible. What hurts is that he's only hitting about 35% of his mid range shots. I would like to see him get in the paint more instead of taking those shots. I'll grant you that.

Who wouldn't? I'm sure you have seen him play. He had the best back down post up game in decades. He did not have tendency to prefer the 3pt. line. Although, unlike KP, he was never a good shot blocker.

GustavBahler wrote:I guess you forgot about all of Ewing's early knee problems, forced him to become a different player, but he was still a star.

They got to treat the achilles before it tore. Kid is 7'3 and moves like a foward, or guard at times. This isn't surprising. From what Ive read KP understands the risk of not getting the messages his body is sending him.

Porzingis set rookie records, this season he isnt getting the ball as much as he should, and may be trying too hard to create opportunities, instead of letting the game come to him.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I guess you forgot about all of Ewing's early knee problems, forced him to become a different player, but he was still a star.

They got to treat the achilles before it tore. Kid is 7'3 and moves like a foward, or guard at times. This isn't surprising. From what Ive read KP understands the risk of not getting the messages his body is sending him.

Porzingis set rookie records, this season he isnt getting the ball as much as he should, and may be trying too hard to create opportunities, instead of letting the game come to him.

This is the part that pisses me off!!! I really can't understand why we don't see several Rose to KP Highlights every game!!! If I was playing with KP i'd be in the gym with him just working on the 2 man game and getting that chemistry down!!! Trying to come up with all kinds of signals to run different stuff with KP. Just doesn't make any sense that this hasn't happened.

Its not too complicated IMO. Rose wants to max out. Might believe the best way to do that is to have the best numbers on the team, scoring anyway. Playing second fiddle to KP would make it harder for him to argue that he deserves the max. Looks like he wants that deal, even if it means freezing KP out. Thats my guess.

If you look at the preseason thread, in the first game I pointed out that that Rose (among others) were freezing KP out. This has been going on to some degree all season. The only thing to do IMO to keep KP here is to ship any player who more often than not is not looking to pass to him, for whatever reason. Dont need their issues, especially if they aren't delivering.

We need a balanced attack, cant be all KP, but damn, look how players like AD, and Towns, are an important part of the offense. Cant groom a player if you dont give them enough opportunities.