Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I just watched the Game again and 28 of the Knicks 44 made baskets came out of 4 Out Style sets. Most were started with a High PnR and I saw no Pure Triangle sets. This was a major shift away from the Triangle and can't be accidental. It's literally what i've been screaming for Jeff to do and I hope he sticks with this. It's clearly more PnR from Melo than we've seen in recent times.

When the rest of the board kept telling you we need more PNR last season, you couldn't react to it positively. I don't care about how many screenshots you post. Anyone who has watched even the first 10-15 games of the season will concede that the triangle is not a fit for these players. As far as Jeff running more PNR than anything else...it may be a recent occurrence because Phil may have finally conceded to Jeff that we can't play triangle with these guys that he himself brought in.

You misunderstood what I was saying! I actually pointed out that you can run PnR out of the Triangle in addition to 4 Out!!! I even posted images to PROVE how easy it is to do. Only change is to move one forward out of the Pinch Post and then you have a 4 Out look.

In fact Tex Winter had a 4 Out look in his playbook in his own hand writing. He made it easy to flow in and out of that look at any time. THAT is what I was saying! I'm not against PnR ball which you would know from my support of MDA's offense!

Just cuz guys didn't follow what I've been saying doesn't mean I've changed my views. Also I felt with Rose, Noah, Jennings added it made more sense to run MORE PnR than pure Triangle with this team and Jeff talked about doing that from the start.

As suggested numerous times on Thursday night it was far more the Bulls being even worse than us than anything to look forward to with this Knicks team.

Lose tomorrow against Atlanta with a certain defeat in Boston to come on Wednesday we should be in full blow up mode. This season is a shambles and we should do everything we can to get an early pick and trade for others.

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:I really am disappointed in some of the responses on this thread. Was the point of this thread made invalid after one loss? Somehow it always seems like a good idea by some to try and say I told you so even when it's not relevant. Was my point that the Knicks had SOLVED ALL THEIR PROBLEMS??? It didn't suddenly make all the Knicks issues disappear.

You guys that jumped on here after the loss TOTALLY miss the point of this thread. The point was that Jeff has moved on from the Triangle heavy offense and is playing a spread PnR offense! I think LONG TERM that this is the right move!!! Will they win EVERY GAME??? Hell No. Let's not be unreasonable. None of you actually refuted my point but rather just took an opportunity to gloat after a loss. It wasn't about the WIN over the Bulls. It was about the change in style of play!!!

OF COURSE they still need to improve defensively, to get more consistent with what they do on both ends and they need to get healthy. It's not like the point of this thread was that this team was going to suddenly win every game! This thread wasn't about addressing the defense or lineups or injuries or anything else.

Well you kinda did a lot of i told you so in this thread after the Bulls win soooo....................

I don't think Hornacek ever had us playing a triangle heavy offense sooooo....................

In terms of the amount of Triangle the Knicks were playing, I can tell you that they were in FACT running more Triangle previous to the last 2 games and I even posted example from the Sixers game. These examples show the Triangle Spacing and not the 4 Out spacing they've since been featuring more often:

I actually rewatched the Bulls game and I counted every score that came out of the spread look and outside of Fast Breaks the majority of the Knicks scores came off of a Spread PnR look. I counted 28 out of the 44 made Shots were Spread PnR sets.

Now if this team is ever going to get healthy and figure out how to play well on both ends for a complete game I think the offensive part should remain this current posture Jeff has the team on. You still have to make shots and play good defense!!! However, my point about the Spread PnR offense still stands.

nyknickzingis wrote:Spread PnR or Triangle, problem is defense and lack of stars in their primes. Melo and Rose are good but no longer great enough to carry teams to wins. The vets don't have it to play defense and offense. KP needs a post game before he is able to carry a team on offense and his body is still developing/adapting to NBA season grind.

And as much as I like Horny, I think he has lost this team. Now I'd sooner trade the vets on this team that Horny has lost and build around some new athletic young guys than fire Horny, but if we are keeping Rose n Melo and the vets, we gotta make a coaching change. Horny has lost this team, especially Rose. Rose just crapped on him in the media basically telling Horny to coach more like Thibs. It's a mess.

Hope Phil is planning on making some major changes. Either with coaching or trades. This mess can not continue. Only time this team is fun to watch is when KP plays well or when the bench guys like Willy, Kuz, Baker all play well. I know Horny has a good system because I see how the bench plays. Limited talet but play his system well. I also like how KP has looked under Horny. The vets like Rose, Melo, Noah all have stunk most of the season under Horny. Something's gotta give.

I say again - Phil fired Fisher too soon. I think Fisher would've been a better coach for this squad.

Rose threw Hornacek under the bus - because an enabling culture has been created here where Rose has been shown he won't be punished if he acts out.

Also, I think Phil completely undermined Hornacek when he let it leak that Rambis had been put in charge of the defense six games into the season. That should've been a private thing that never came out. Completely undermined him and yet another thing Rose can point to - "hey Phil said Jeff can't coach D, so why can't I?"

Where is Phil? Phil has created both the coaching problem and then the problem of not backing his coach up. It is essential for management to back up the coach in this league. Especially his (second) handpicked one. This makes two handpicked coaches Phil has essentially thrown under the bus in Hornacek and Fisher.

As much as the Melo experiment needs to end, I think the Phil one may need to as well. We need a leader for this organization who is good at his job and also present every damn day. I miss Donnie Walsh.