HofstraBBall wrote:With this thinking....everyone in the east except the Cavs, Raptors and Celts should also tank. Everyone else flirting with .500, like the Knicks.

Exactly. And we have a young star who needs to learn how to win and compete. A lot of teams don't have a star already in place for the future like we do.

Still can't understand why people are so pro-tanking. We got very lucky with KP. We could've easily had Okafor fall in our lap. Tanking the season and hoping we get lucky is not a strategy I'm on board with. And I don't think this current team is that far away from being good. We just need a good and creative GM to make that one move (not talking about a blockbuster trade) that changes everything and I'm doubting Phil is that guy.

Knixkik wrote:

Welpee wrote:I bet half the people advocating tanking have no clue regarding available college and international talent. They don't know if 2017 is a strong draft or a weak one. Don't know if the best available talent duplicates what we already have. Just because Houston tanked to get Hakeem and San Antonio tanked to get David Robinson & Tim Duncan a zillion years ago doesn't mean this is an effective strategy to build a contender.

Still can't understand why people are so pro-tanking. We got very lucky with KP. We could've easily had Okafor fall in our lap. Tanking the season and hoping we get lucky is not a strategy I'm on board with. And I don't think this current team is that fall away from being good. We just need a good and creative GM to make that one move (not talking about a blockbuster trade) that changes everything and I'm doubting Phil is that guy.

Tanking is a bad idea no matter how to slice it. Just too big a gamble. I don't get the obsession. This wasn't even something talked about here in the early 2000s. It's like some sort of fad or trend now.

Folks all remember San Antonio tanking and getting Duncan, but if I remember correctly the Celtics tanked that season too and had two lottery picks and ended up with Chauncey Billups (before he became Mr. Big Shot) and Ron Mercer and neither did anything for Boston. How many years did the Clippers have lottery picks and still sucked?

I'd rather have a GM with a concrete strategy versus "tank and hope."

smackeddog wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Welpee wrote:I bet half the people advocating tanking have no clue regarding available college and international talent. They don't know if 2017 is a strong draft or a weak one. Don't know if the best available talent duplicates what we already have. Just because Houston tanked to get Hakeem and San Antonio tanked to get David Robinson & Tim Duncan a zillion years ago doesn't mean this is an effective strategy to build a contender.

Still can't understand why people are so pro-tanking. We got very lucky with KP. We could've easily had Okafor fall in our lap. Tanking the season and hoping we get lucky is not a strategy I'm on board with. And I don't think this current team is that fall away from being good. We just need a good and creative GM to make that one move (not talking about a blockbuster trade) that changes everything and I'm doubting Phil is that guy.

Tanking is a bad idea no matter how to slice it. Just too big a gamble. I don't get the obsession. This wasn't even something talked about here in the early 2000s. It's like some sort of fad or trend now.

I hate tanking, but under this CBA please explain to me how you build a contender unless via the draft? Even the second and third string talents get max contracts in resticted FA, and their teams match them- you can't get great players via free agency anymore if you suck, and even if you're good its very rare. Only players you have a shot at are those who have reached 30 and are on the decline (if they aren't on the decline, their teams just keep them with the extra money they can offer).

By tank I mean if it doesn't look like we're going to make the playoffs, then you need to start wracking up the losses because right now we're in the middle of the pack AND on the outside of the playoffs, which is the worst place to be.

You can collect draft picks. 1st round picks obviously preferred. Then draft wisely and build from within. Don't give up on the talent. Get a good coach. I like the GSW model. Boston also doing well with their picks and has a very good coach. I think we are getting there. We now have a very good coach. We have young talents that is showing promise. We just have to draft wisely. We now need PG that can distribute and can play defense. I like Baker and he might be the answer. His moxy and defense make me happy. We really need a long SF that can defend and rebound to play with Melo so we they can be interchangeable.

NYKBocker wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Welpee wrote:I bet half the people advocating tanking have no clue regarding available college and international talent. They don't know if 2017 is a strong draft or a weak one. Don't know if the best available talent duplicates what we already have. Just because Houston tanked to get Hakeem and San Antonio tanked to get David Robinson & Tim Duncan a zillion years ago doesn't mean this is an effective strategy to build a contender.

Still can't understand why people are so pro-tanking. We got very lucky with KP. We could've easily had Okafor fall in our lap. Tanking the season and hoping we get lucky is not a strategy I'm on board with. And I don't think this current team is that fall away from being good. We just need a good and creative GM to make that one move (not talking about a blockbuster trade) that changes everything and I'm doubting Phil is that guy.

Tanking is a bad idea no matter how to slice it. Just too big a gamble. I don't get the obsession. This wasn't even something talked about here in the early 2000s. It's like some sort of fad or trend now.

I hate tanking, but under this CBA please explain to me how you build a contender unless via the draft? Even the second and third string talents get max contracts in resticted FA, and their teams match them- you can't get great players via free agency anymore if you suck, and even if you're good its very rare. Only players you have a shot at are those who have reached 30 and are on the decline (if they aren't on the decline, their teams just keep them with the extra money they can offer).

By tank I mean if it doesn't look like we're going to make the playoffs, then you need to start wracking up the losses because right now we're in the middle of the pack AND on the outside of the playoffs, which is the worst place to be.

You can collect draft picks. 1st round picks obviously preferred. Then draft wisely and build from within. Don't give up on the talent. Get a good coach. I like the GSW model. Boston also doing well with their picks and has a very good coach. I think we are getting there. We now have a very good coach. We have young talents that is showing promise. We just have to draft wisely. We now need PG that can distribute and can play defense. I like Baker and he might be the answer. His moxy and defense make me happy. We really need a long SF that can defend and rebound to play with Melo so we they can be interchangeable.

This draft actually might offer a few of these guys. OG Anunoby, Tyler Lydon, and Miles Bridges all have that potential and are expected to go late lottery-mid 1st round.

Knixkik wrote:Antetokounmpo, Turner, Winslow, Booker, LaVine, Hood, Jokic, McCollum, Gobert. That's 9 players in 3 recent drafts 2013, 2014, 2015 who were taken #10 or later and are future stars or at least have significant upside. In 2013, the best players were taken outside of the top 10. Enough of this tanking crap. Go out and draft a good player outside of the top 10 and build the right way. Play competitive basketball and use our picks effectively and we will build a nice team around Porzingis.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Antetokounmpo, Turner, Winslow, Booker, LaVine, Hood, Jokic, McCollum, Gobert. That's 9 players in 3 recent drafts 2013, 2014, 2015 who were taken #10 or later and are future stars or at least have significant upside. In 2013, the best players were taken outside of the top 10. Enough of this tanking crap. Go out and draft a good player outside of the top 10 and build the right way. Play competitive basketball and use our picks effectively and we will build a nice team around Porzingis.

Rare exceptions in previous drafts don't tell us what picks are more likely to lead to the best player in the upcoming draft. Should we always trade our first round pick for pick #57 since that's where Manu Ginobili was drafted?

No, you missed the point. You don't tank to draft a few slots higher, because talent is available after the top 10. It's not rare. This happens literally every draft. I am not minimizing the value in high picks, just saying there is value throughout the 1st round every draft. You don't need a top 10 pick to build thru the draft.

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Knicks should do what Hawks are doing. They should try and dump Rose if possible Melo too. Everyone else but some young players like KP, Willie and Kuz. Everyone else put be put out for picks. The team isn't going anywhere why are we so obsessed with playoffs games that ultimately will end with the Knicks getting their ass handed to them.

Let not kid ourselves let's just get assets from the draft and build a team of youth. Let's try and get the next great player through the draft to pair up with KP, Willie and Kuz. This isn't a good team at all. No defense no heart. Winning back to back games requires talent and a lot of heart. This not a mood swing this isn't a rant it's just reality of the situation which is dire.

Phil shouldn't mess around rack up as many assets as possible and take it from their. Not gonna win crap with the way this team is put together.

Jim Dolan believes that if you throw some vets in with melo we should be a 50 win team. I don't see them throwing in any towels. On the contrary I bet they are buyers The wilson chandlers and ken faried s of the world are out there. Yes it will cost 1 at rd picks but this is how we operate

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Antetokounmpo, Turner, Winslow, Booker, LaVine, Hood, Jokic, McCollum, Gobert. That's 9 players in 3 recent drafts 2013, 2014, 2015 who were taken #10 or later and are future stars or at least have significant upside. In 2013, the best players were taken outside of the top 10. Enough of this tanking crap. Go out and draft a good player outside of the top 10 and build the right way. Play competitive basketball and use our picks effectively and we will build a nice team around Porzingis.

Rare exceptions in previous drafts don't tell us what picks are more likely to lead to the best player in the upcoming draft. Should we always trade our first round pick for pick #57 since that's where Manu Ginobili was drafted?

No, you missed the point. You don't tank to draft a few slots higher, because talent is available after the top 10. It's not rare. This happens literally every draft. I am not minimizing the value in high picks, just saying there is value throughout the 1st round every draft. You don't need a top 10 pick to build thru the draft.

Yes - but.

I don't want to end up like Ewing's Knicks - just good enough to just not make it all the way. Always one piece away, but never able to find it.

There is talent throughout the draft, but we need to gather more talent, more impact players - more that are young and cost controlled. Being ok means we're not really ever going to move forward.

I see what you mean, but i somewhat disagree with the highlighted part. Ewing's Knicks had their chances. They were in the mix every season, and they should have won in 1994. They had the series and screwed up. Winning a title takes luck and some good breaks too. I don't think anyone didn't enjoy Ewing's Knicks. The 90s were enjoyable, it was the era i first remember and made me a fan. Only 1 team wins a title each season. That team built around Ewing had a chance every season. If you can build a similar team around Porzingis that is in the mix every year, it's a good well done. And hopefully enough good luck gets them over the top.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Antetokounmpo, Turner, Winslow, Booker, LaVine, Hood, Jokic, McCollum, Gobert. That's 9 players in 3 recent drafts 2013, 2014, 2015 who were taken #10 or later and are future stars or at least have significant upside. In 2013, the best players were taken outside of the top 10. Enough of this tanking crap. Go out and draft a good player outside of the top 10 and build the right way. Play competitive basketball and use our picks effectively and we will build a nice team around Porzingis.

Rare exceptions in previous drafts don't tell us what picks are more likely to lead to the best player in the upcoming draft. Should we always trade our first round pick for pick #57 since that's where Manu Ginobili was drafted?

No, you missed the point. You don't tank to draft a few slots higher, because talent is available after the top 10. It's not rare. This happens literally every draft. I am not minimizing the value in high picks, just saying there is value throughout the 1st round every draft. You don't need a top 10 pick to build thru the draft.

OK fair enough. I think this depends on what tanking means. Does tanking mean lose on purpose? Like you tell the guys to miss shots? Or tell the coach to play the worst players? Of course, I don't want to do that. But I want to get rid of these veterans and get future assets. That likely would worsen the record this year, which might be called tanking.

What type of value do we get for our vets? I don't see us getting 1st round picks, or anything of real value. If we are out of playoff contention, i just shut down Melo and Rose for the year, and let the young guys play. I guess that could be considered tanking. But I still don't see Melo going anywhere. I think starting fresh next year with the similar group is more than likely. Learning to compete is still more valuable for a guy like KP, than playing on a team like Philly or Minnesota.