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OT: who really fears the Heat?
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raven
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8/10/2004  10:52 AM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

Remember when Dennis Scott was a Knick

I personnally try to forget that kind of trauma.
AUTOADVERT
raven
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8/11/2004  5:21 AM
Capital improvements
Unheralded Wizards could challenge for Southeast Division title
Posted: Tuesday August 10, 2004 2:35PM; Updated: Tuesday August 10, 2004 3:19PM

Think the Miami Heat are a cinch to win a Southeast Division that includes perennial patsies Atlanta, Orlando, Washington and the expansion Charlotte Bobcats?

Think again.

In spite of Miami's recent trade for Shaquille O'Neal, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Washington, rather than Miami, won the Southeast Division this year.

In saying this, I realize I may be the only person on the planet who hasn't conceded the Southeast Division to Miami. I can hear the chortling already. "C'mon, dude, the Wizards? Are you stoned or just stupid?"

Hear me out. For starters, the Heat won't win 60 games, and probably not even 50 -- not with a supporting cast than includes Dwyane Wade, Eddie Jones and little else. Even if Shaq shows up angry and regains the edge that was missing the past two years, the Heat's lineup isn't nearly as good as the one he left, and he only topped 60 wins once with that gang. I expect Miami's win total to end up somewhere in the mid-to-high 40s, depending on how many games Shaq misses due to his assorted maladies.

Of course, to top the Heat, the Wizards still need to nearly double their victory total of 25 from a year ago -- no small feat. Given that the roster is almost identical to last year's, how on earth do I expect them to do that?

To understand, first let's look at why the Wizards failed a year ago. Washington's shortcomings were primarily the result of three malfunctions. First, young small forwards Jarvis Hayes and Jared Jeffries shot like they were blindfolded, which handcuffed the offense. Second, injuries in the backcourt felled the Wizards' top three scorers (Jerry Stackhouse, Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes), taking them out of action for an average of 34 games each. And third, the bench was too poor to overcome the injuries.

This summer Washington has remedied at least two of those problems. The arrival of Antawn Jamison in a draft-day trade instantly solves the issue of getting scoring from the small forward spot. One of the league's smoothest shot-makers around the basket, Jamison is an immensely helpful offensive player because he shoots a high percentage without turning the ball over.

Jamison should help on the injury front, too. He hasn't missed a game in four seasons -- the NBA's longest active streak -- whereas Stackhouse barely played in the 2003-04 season. Combine that with the healthy return of Arenas, who should be over the abdominal strain that cost him 27 games last year and forced him to play well below full strength in several others, and the Wizards should be much more potent.

As for the bench ... well, the bench is still a problem. But a few underrated moves by general manager Ernie Grunfeld have made it less of an issue. The Wizards matched Miwaukee's offer sheet for big man Etan Thomas, signed guard Anthony Peeler with their veteran's exception and added big man Samaki Walker to round out the frontcourt rotation. Keeping Thomas cements Washington's young, talented frontcourt trio that also includes Kwame Brown and Brendan Haywood. Together, they have quietly become among the best front lines in the Eastern Conference, wich each averaging about 14 points and 10 rebounds per 40 minutes last season while shooting nearly 50 percent. Meanwhile, Peeler's arrival means Washington no longer will depend on ball-hogging Juan Dixon to lead the second unit.

The additions of Jamison and Peeler are important on another level as well, because they can produce points without dominating the ball. Jamison just catches near the basket and flips it in, while Peeler hangs out in the corner waiting for 3-pointers. Their reluctance to dribble is an asset on this team, because one of Washington's problems last season was that so many players needed the ball in their hands. Arenas and Dixon were the worst offenders, but it was a problem with all of the perimeter players, and the result was that the talented young post players didn't get as many touches as they should have.

The biggest reason of all to like Washington this season, however, is that it's still so young. Look at the Wizards' lineup, and the one thing that stands out is that everybody on the team stands to be better this year than they were last year. Washington's six key players -- Arenas, Hughes, Jamison, Brown, Haywood and Thomas -- all are 28 or younger and already have impressive seasons on their resumés. In the backcourt, Arenas is still only 22, while the vastly underrated Hughes is 25. Both could be 20-point scorers this season. Up front it's more of the same. Haywood has become one of the East's better centers and still is just 25, while the 22-year-old Brown finally became a real basketball player last season and has plenty of growth ahead.

A year of experience should make the bench better, too. Hayes, Jeffries and Steve Blake all took their rookie lumps last year (Jeffries was technically a second-year player but missed nearly all of his rookie season with a knee injury.), but each is only 23 years old and each should be significantly better as sophomores. Add a shooter like reigning 3-point champion Peeler to the mix-- the one missing link in this team's attack -- and it's easy to see how the offense could improve by leaps and bounds from last season's disappointing performance.

Do the Wizards have their flaws? Of course they do, or they wouldn't have lost 57 games last season. While Peeler is an upgrade on Dixon, the dropoff from the starters to reserves (Thomas excepted) remains frightfully steep, so key injuries could once again lay them low. Additionally, coach Eddie Jordan still has to get the guards to give up shots for the big guys.

Picking a surprise team before the season is always perilous. After all, it can't be considered a surprise if we expect it, right? Nonetheless, it's hard to look at this team and not be excited about this season and the ones beyond it. Washington already has one of the better starting fives in the league, and that group should only get better this coming season. While the Wizards haven't been relevant for two decades, except as a sideshow during Michael Jordan's comeback, nothing lasts forever. It says here that this is the season that pattern changes.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/john_hollinger/08/10/wizards.rising/index.html
bernard
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8/11/2004  9:23 AM
Very compelling arguments in this thread. When the trade went down, I was focusing on how bad it looked for LA, which IMO still had a good chance at another run. Now it strikes me as bad for both teams. Do Heat have any flexibility to make another move, because it sure looks like they need to. After all, they've given up their future for the present. They better make a serious run at it now. This season will be a failure for them if they don't make the finals, imo. Imagine if they don't even win their division.

Key to me is that for the Heat to have a good regular season, they will need to depend on Shaq big time. Van Gundy will have to be very disciplined to keep his minutes down. But even if the minutes are kept reasonable, they'll be hard minutes because Heat'll run the offense through Shaq every time down the court. Won't get to rest like he did in LA when Kobe was doing his thing. Don't know if his body can withstand this for entire season and playoff run. Certainly can't imagine him being able to put in major minutes this year and many more.

Heat need to win now, and it doesn't look like they have the horses to do it.
raven
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8/11/2004  9:35 AM
they surely don't.

imo they will do some damages during the regular season, but won't be able to perform against a good team in the playoffs.

teams will force shaq to beat them, and he can't do that every night now.

I don't understand that move, though it makes sense to fill some seats short term.

Feels bad for odom though, he seemed to pretty happy there.
fishmike
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8/11/2004  9:46 AM
Was has a lot of talent and I loved the Jamison trade based on their needs, but lets see them have any kind of stretch of good basketball. Is Eddie Jordan still at the helm? Im not sold on him at all... I know he was the mastermind behind the Nets offense but a team like the Wiz need fundamentals ironed out before they can assimilate an intricate offense.

As for the Heat its one thing to make other guys better and Shaq obviously does that, but the talent around him right now is deplorable. I mean its just insanely bad, and the one thing they need is shooters, which they dont have.

I can see Shaq getting POed pretty quickly and Riley taking the helm (unsuccessfully)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
raven
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8/11/2004  10:08 AM
Posted by fishmike:

As for the Heat its one thing to make other guys better and Shaq obviously does that, but the talent around him right now is deplorable.

You said it. Nalod (thoug he was nedyal at that time) said once : better than awful is still bad.

Regarding the wizards, i don't know where they'll go from where they were, yet, they should not be plagued like injuries like that 2 yrs in a row. Maybe this time kwame will be consistent, maybe.

On thing for sure, jordan is said to be a bright coach. Last yr he just didn't have the tools to succeed.
raven
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8/11/2004  10:09 AM
Fish, what is kool aid ? You all from times to times talk about that.

please, explain.
nyballer
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8/11/2004  10:56 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BigSm00th:

The fact still remains that if the Heat played anybody in the East in a playoff series the best player is going to be Shaq and the 2nd best player is in almost all cases going to be Wade.
The 2nd best player on the Heat would be Wade but not 2nd best player in the series. Unless Wade improves enormously over the offseason, he's still not as good a player as Jermaine O'Neal, Ben Wallace, Stephon Marbury, Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter
It doesn't matter what team has the best player, it's about how they play. Look at detroit- outside of the milwaukee series, they never had the best player, sometimes not even one of the top 2. against NJ kidd was the best player (though he was injured), and arguably kmart or richard jefferson. against indiana jermaine was the best player on the court, nad in the finals kobe and shaq were better than any individual player on detroit. that being said, the heat may not be as bad as you all make them out to be. Having a lot of players with tons to prove and without egos means theyll have enough role players - the key to the lakers success at their prime. but i don't think wade and shaq alone can carry the team. maybe wade in a few years, but by then shaq will be done.
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Mac
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8/11/2004  5:03 PM
I assume you're talking about offensively, the best players. B Wallace and R Wallace were easily the best defensively in every series they faced.
eViL
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8/11/2004  5:24 PM
Posted by raven:

Fish, what is kool aid ? You all from times to times talk about that.

please, explain.

I know you asked Fish, but I'll try to explain:

There was a cult, that was led by this dude, Jim Jones. He poisoned his followers by lacing their Kool Aid. Ever since, "drinking someone's Kool-Aid" has been a term that describes people who are blindly following a leader that will ultimately hurt them. Some like to say that Knicks fans are drinking Isaih's Kool Aid. I think Fish is being sarcastic by including that quote in his signature.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Bonn1997
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8/11/2004  5:27 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by raven:

Fish, what is kool aid ? You all from times to times talk about that.

please, explain.

I know you asked Fish, but I'll try to explain:

There was a cult, that was led by this dude, Jim Jones. He poisoned his followers by lacing their Kool Aid. Ever since, "drinking someone's Kool-Aid" has been a term that describes people who are blindly following a leader that will ultimately hurt them. Some like to say that Knicks fans are drinking Isaih's Kool Aid. I think Fish is being sarcastic by including that quote in his signature.
Yeah, I think he's being sarcastic.

One or two people here are still hooked on "Layden-aid"
fishmike
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8/11/2004  5:35 PM
the jokes been in the press, but its the worst w/ Islesfan who swears everyone is drinking Isiah's kool-aid, because all these people like his moves so far, except Islesfan who hates Isiah and all things he has, well or ever done.

PS, I think Islefan is really Don Chaney. He started posting on MSG with fury right around the time Duck got canned.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
raven
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8/11/2004  5:54 PM
ok sounds clear now. thx !
Let's drink some more !

Rich
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8/11/2004  6:04 PM
Fear is irrelevant, but if both teams are healthy, the Knicks have no shot against them in a short series.
Mac
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8/11/2004  6:48 PM
Let's wait until after the summer before making any bold predictions.
daddynel
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8/11/2004  7:03 PM
Posted by Mac:

Let's wait until after the summer before making any bold predictions.
agreed. there's been too much revamping to guesstamate who's better between the knicks and the heat. we'll see who has the best chemistry and polish off there rosters by game time.
don't get me wrong fellas, deep down i know i'll be at AA arena watching the knicks ROMP that aaayyysss!
OT: who really fears the Heat?

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