ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:no question he has turned a corner in terms of maturity. lets hope he can translate those 25 fantastic games form last season into 70 fantastic games this season. hornacek has to let him maintain his role as a playmaker. stay healthy melo!

I seriously doubt that, with ball dominate pg's like Rose and Jennings, there's no need to have melo ball handling as much. Melo needs to be used like he was during the Olympics, spacing the floor, and a few post ups here and there

think facilitating instead of ball handling, while keeping that OlympicMelo vibe going strong.

Hopefully in this new offense, the ball doesn't stick in any one players hand, whether it be Melo or Rose or in smaller doses Jennings. Alot of player motion, cuts, and pace and space instead of everyone spread out waiting for 1 dude ISO'ing or just 2 man PnR game all game. There's enough decent passers especially in the front court with Noah, Melo, and KP to make this offense more dynamic than just waiting for a primary ballhandler at the top of key to break down his man.

exactly. there has to be a pecking order and rose and jennings ain't at the top of it, hopefully.

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:no question he has turned a corner in terms of maturity. lets hope he can translate those 25 fantastic games form last season into 70 fantastic games this season. hornacek has to let him maintain his role as a playmaker. stay healthy melo!

I seriously doubt that, with ball dominate pg's like Rose and Jennings, there's no need to have melo ball handling as much. Melo needs to be used like he was during the Olympics, spacing the floor, and a few post ups here and there

think facilitating instead of ball handling, while keeping that OlympicMelo vibe going strong.

Hopefully in this new offense, the ball doesn't stick in any one players hand, whether it be Melo or Rose or in smaller doses Jennings. Alot of player motion, cuts, and pace and space instead of everyone spread out waiting for 1 dude ISO'ing or just 2 man PnR game all game. There's enough decent passers especially in the front court with Noah, Melo, and KP to make this offense more dynamic than just waiting for a primary ballhandler at the top of key to break down his man.

exactly. there has to be a pecking order and rose and jennings ain't at the top of it, hopefully.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:no question he has turned a corner in terms of maturity. lets hope he can translate those 25 fantastic games form last season into 70 fantastic games this season. hornacek has to let him maintain his role as a playmaker. stay healthy melo!

I seriously doubt that, with ball dominate pg's like Rose and Jennings, there's no need to have melo ball handling as much. Melo needs to be used like he was during the Olympics, spacing the floor, and a few post ups here and there

think facilitating instead of ball handling, while keeping that OlympicMelo vibe going strong.

Hopefully in this new offense, the ball doesn't stick in any one players hand, whether it be Melo or Rose or in smaller doses Jennings. Alot of player motion, cuts, and pace and space instead of everyone spread out waiting for 1 dude ISO'ing or just 2 man PnR game all game. There's enough decent passers especially in the front court with Noah, Melo, and KP to make this offense more dynamic than just waiting for a primary ballhandler at the top of key to break down his man.

exactly. there has to be a pecking order and rose and jennings ain't at the top of it, hopefully.

It's not about pecking orders. The way Hornacek wants the team to play is with everyone involved. His teams play with a good speed and lots of activity rather than too much ISO. There is some ISO as there is with all teams, but he's looking for more quick hitting offense. More Early Offense and more Efficient Offense. He's a very bright Basketball Mind and so I look forward to seeing what he does with this roster.

you're putting a lot of responsibility on hornacek. good coaches assess the strengths and weaknesses of his rotation, and tries to get the best possible results in the face of that mixing. ideally, however, you also want a coach who doesn't merely deal with existing strengths and weaknesses but actually shapes his players. the issue then becomes how coachable and changeable are the players in question.

when you think honestly about this you will realize how much of a burden you are placing on the coach.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:no question he has turned a corner in terms of maturity. lets hope he can translate those 25 fantastic games form last season into 70 fantastic games this season. hornacek has to let him maintain his role as a playmaker. stay healthy melo!

I seriously doubt that, with ball dominate pg's like Rose and Jennings, there's no need to have melo ball handling as much. Melo needs to be used like he was during the Olympics, spacing the floor, and a few post ups here and there

think facilitating instead of ball handling, while keeping that OlympicMelo vibe going strong.

Hopefully in this new offense, the ball doesn't stick in any one players hand, whether it be Melo or Rose or in smaller doses Jennings. Alot of player motion, cuts, and pace and space instead of everyone spread out waiting for 1 dude ISO'ing or just 2 man PnR game all game. There's enough decent passers especially in the front court with Noah, Melo, and KP to make this offense more dynamic than just waiting for a primary ballhandler at the top of key to break down his man.

exactly. there has to be a pecking order and rose and jennings ain't at the top of it, hopefully.

It's not about pecking orders. The way Hornacek wants the team to play is with everyone involved. His teams play with a good speed and lots of activity rather than too much ISO. There is some ISO as there is with all teams, but he's looking for more quick hitting offense. More Early Offense and more Efficient Offense. He's a very bright Basketball Mind and so I look forward to seeing what he does with this roster.

you're putting a lot of responsibility on hornacek. good coaches assess the strengths and weaknesses of his rotation, and tries to get the best possible results in the face of that mixing. ideally, however, you also want a coach who doesn't merely deal with existing strengths and weaknesses but actually shapes his players. the issue then becomes how coachable and changeable are the players in question.

when you think honestly about this you will realize how much of a burden you are placing on the coach.

I don't think it's a burden on the coach as much as it's just the system he runs, both Morris brothers and Frye have very good seasons under JH, so I expect KP and Melo to have similar success, and that's just on GP..

jrodmc wrote:You nailed this one, fish. There's more hedging going on here than a funds trader going through a messy divorce without a prenup. The closer we get to training camp...

It's always refreshing.

I can't believe a thread title like this wasn't locked a week ago....LMAO
And started by a pseudo member of the Melohate clan, even.

Life be good.

I think I might even smell a YouTubeMelo rebirth, ChuckyBooBoo!

You got it, jrodmc!

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/775864850308173824

more than other summers and more than others in his situation?

The guy that tweeted it probably didn't follow him in the summer when he was a bull. Rose is healthy and working out instead of rehabbing. Also, it is at Melo's Gym.

off season PR never did it for me ... I'm all amare'd out.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/775864850308173824

more than other summers and more than others in his situation?

The guy that tweeted it probably didn't follow him in the summer when he was a bull. Rose is healthy and working out instead of rehabbing. Also, it is at Melo's Gym.

off season PR never did it for me ... I'm all amare'd out.

That's fine but as Crush said, it's a summer free of having to go easy due to rehab. This is a big deal even if you don't appreciate the significance of it.
Also the spotlight is a bit different since now he's a Knick and there's a little bit more attention on what he's doing coming to a new team with an entirely new media group. You know things are always more hyped in NY.

Rose is an important player for this team and even with Amar'e, he was never on Rose's level in terms of fan and media interest. Bigger name and bigger story.

Amare was a much bigger name and it was a huge story until his (expected) crash.

you love getting super hyped in the offseason ... to each their own.

GTFOH! Amar'e is not a bigger name than Derrick Rose! Even after all the injuries Rose is still a bigger name than Amar'e was. What made Amar'e seem big was that there was no other big name that came so he got all the emotion and press. Rose is not alone on this team, so it takes some of the attention away from just one guy. Rose, Melo, KP and Noah as a group is nothing like Amar'e being the only real name when he signed.

No you GTFOH!!

Amare came in on a 5x100 million dollar contract and that was a crazy contract back then. Amare was playing at a very high level.

Rose who has sucked for the last few years is coming here on a cheap trial.

You have seriously lost your mind!! Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

GTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOHGTFOH

I'm not saying AMar'e was a scrub! Obviously he was a highly paid Free Agent, but you are ignoring the circumstances. Amar'e was the ONLY big name on the team at that time so by default he was going to get massive attention. You said that Amar'e was a MUCH BIGGER NAME and i'm saying that he was not a much bigger name than Derrick Rose even this version of Rose still has high recognition. You're confusing your dislike for Rose with whether he's a big name player.

You talk a lot of crap but you don't back up anything you say on this forum. Go and look at all the times we go back and forth and see who actually puts up more backing data between us!!!

Even injured Derrick Rose was still a top seller:

Signature Shoe Sales 2014

LeBron James: $340 million (Nike)

Kevin Durant: $195 million (Nike)

Kobe Bryant: $105 million (Nike)

Chris Paul: $32 million (Nike/Jordan)

Derrick Rose: $32 million (Adidas)

Carmelo Anthony: $30 million (Nike/Jordan)

John Wall: $8 million (Adidas)

Dwight Howard: $1.5 million (Adidas)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/03/18/lebron-james-is-nbas-top-shoe-salesman-with-340-million-for-nike-in-2014/#7b9cf1622859

The NBA's Endorsement All-Stars 2016

Kurt Badenhausen , FORBES STAFF

Below are the NBA players who make the most off the court from endorsements.

Lebron James Off-Court earnings: $48 million

Major Partners: Nike, Samsung Electronics , Coca-Cola KO +0.15%, Tencent, Kia Motors, Beats By Dre

Nike doubled down on James last year with the first lifetime contract in the company’s 44-year history. The Swoosh sold $340 million worth of James’ signature shoes in 2014. James has the highest Celebrity DBI score of any active athlete in the U.S. market. The only active athlete with a higher awareness level than James’ 90% in the U.S. is golfer Tiger Woods at 97%, according to Repucom.

Kevin Durant Off-Court earnings: $36 million

Major Partners: Nike, Beats By Dre, American Family Insurance, BBVA, Sonic, Panini

Kevin Durant launched his own underwear line last year in a partnership with Neff and Foot Locker FL +1.02%. His Nike extension signed in 2014 could be worth as much as $300 million over 10 years. Durant is the first athlete that fast foot drive-in chain Sonic has used in an ad campaign. Durant’s awareness level of 61% in the U.S. ranks third among NBA players. He is fourth for “influence.” The four-time scoring champ will be a free agent after this season.

Kobe Bryant Off-Court earnings: $25 million

Major Partners: Nike, Hublot, Alibaba, Panini

Bryant has wound down most of his endorsement partnership in favor of equity deals as his career reaches its final months. He still makes a killing from Nike, which has been his shoe partner since 2003. Bryant launched Kobe Inc. in 2013 as his post-NBA business. The first two major investments were in sports drink BodyArmor and Derek Jeter’s first-person athlete forum The Player’s Tribune.

James Harden Off-Court earnings: $17 million

Major Partners: Adidas, BBVA, Beats By Dre, Foot Locker FL +1.02%, NBA 2K, KT Tape

The MVP runner-up inked a 13-year, $200 million shoe deal with Adidas last summer that included a signing bonus. The first signature James Harden shoe is planned for later this year. Harden’s latest endorsement partner is Ferrara’s Trolli candy, which plans gummi candies inspired by Harden’s beard. Dating Khloe Kardashian raised Harden’s celebrity profile and awareness.

Derrick Rose Off-Court earnings: $14 million

Major Partners: Adidas, Powerade, Giordano’s

Before Harden, Adidas bet big on Derrick Rose to help boost the brand’s anemic market share in basketball. The German sportswear giant handed out a 13-year, $185 million contract to Rose in 2012 after the point guard’s 2010-11 MVP season where he became the youngest player to nab the award. It hasn’t worked out with Rose missing two-thirds of Chicago Bulls games with injuries the past three seasons. Sales of Rose’s signature shoes fell 20% in 2014 to $32 million, according to SportsOneSource.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/02/14/the-nbas-endorsement-all-stars-2016/#67d2239a5096

I guarantee his sales will spike playing for the Knicks if the team has a winning record. Like I said, GTFOH!!!

Amare was still playing at a superstar level. Rose is playing like a bad d-leaguer for years. Right Nix, you always win, lets go with sneaker sales as our measure.

Answer this question: Is this version of D Rose anything close to the player that Amare was when he came here? If you say yes then you continue to be clueless.

And I don't hate rose, I hate the rose trade. I don't hate amare, I just hated the amare signing. I don't hate bargs ... well scratch that, he is a putz.

offseason nixluva is always a very cloudy man. Regular season, not as bad.

And yes, lets go back to our bargs arguments, our tony wroten discussion, our J. Grant a.k.a. mike connelly discussion, our AA discussion, our amare discussions, freakin BARGS!, you my friend are mister wrong so don't bring up how we should go back to our discussions to see how they played out.

That's right totally try to change the focus of the discussion. That's your M.O. Don't provide any proof, just talk ISH. You are trying to make this about how Amar'e was playing but that's not the same thing as whether Amar'e was a Bigger NAME at the time. THE DAMN POINT YOU MADE WAS ABOUT HYPE and INTEREST from the MEDIA in the offseason!!! Didn't have a damn thing to do with in season performance.

Rose was and is a more popular player. Now of course Rose is not MVP level Rose right now, but we are still talking about a player with significant name recognition and fan interest. That's born out by his Sneaker Sales and Endorsement money or do you not know how that works???

YOU are the one who brought Amar'e into this. The offseason hype about Rose bothered you and you said you were "all Amare'd out". I was just pointing out that interest about Rose as a player is HIGHER than Amar'e, even with Rose being injured so much. Hype around Rose is based on the level of interest in the U.S. and beyond. There is more interest about Rose overall then there was about Amar'e. This isn't just about NYC.

Twitter followers? Rose 2.44 mil, Amare 1.17 mil. There's no metric you can site that would back up your contention that Amar'e was a bigger name.

I don't care about the dumb and dumberers or about fukking sneakers or freakin twitter. I am talking about from the smart fan/pro/vegas perspective. Most think Rose is a shell of Rose the sneaker hero and that chances are not that high that he will ever be any where near the rose of a few years ago.

Amare at the time we got him was playing at a high/superstar level and even though his contract was dangerously stupid, everybody thought that he would fly (literally) out of the gate. And Nixluva, please tell me you are not comparing Rose's Twitter followers to Israeli/Grand daddy Amare. You did not just do that, no way!! Wholly fuk, you didn't! please say that it was a (bad) joke. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rose also has a higher following than George Mikan btw ... I just checked.

Oh ... and when Amare came here, people did not even really know what twitter was just in case you would try to outsmart yourself and compare Amare's followers back then to Rose's now.

And and and, how many here defended amare (and still do) that he at least made the knicks relevant again so it was still worth it?

Is Rose's expectation to make us Relevant? We are already Relevant, we have KP, Melo and Phil. NY is as relevant as ever. How relevant were they before Amare?

Nix, do you know why I don't put too much time into arguing against your BS? Because its worthless. You will never get it. Stick to loving the team regardless of if its being run by Tony Wroten, Rose or whomever. Just don't try to slam you love down everyones throat ad nauseam and cry like a baby and throw hissy fits when others don't feel your love.

Peace buddy!

jrodmc wrote:Well, no matter how many times we saw Amare dunking himself in vino compared to Rose crying during press conferences, wasn't Amare practically uninsurable when he signed here?

Anyway, I'm still really impressed with Melo! Down to only 24th on the SI top 100:

Carmelo's 21/7/4 stat line was matched in all three categories by only three players: Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook.

Go Melo Go! He made the top 25 finally.

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Well, no matter how many times we saw Amare dunking himself in vino compared to Rose crying during press conferences, wasn't Amare practically uninsurable when he signed here?

Anyway, I'm still really impressed with Melo! Down to only 24th on the SI top 100:

Carmelo's 21/7/4 stat line was matched in all three categories by only three players: Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook.

Go Melo Go! He made the top 25 finally.

Once again, mr. i only read picturebooks ChuckyBooBoo misses the point:

Based on what many perceive as Melo's "best" season metrically, No. 24 seems fair heading into the 2016-17 season.

When he's at his best, which we saw this summer in Rio, Anthony is still one of the world's best and most dominant players. If the Knicks have a strong season this year and Melo continues to assist Porzingis' development, I would expect Melo to vault near the top 10, where he was a fixture for years.

jrodmc wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Well, no matter how many times we saw Amare dunking himself in vino compared to Rose crying during press conferences, wasn't Amare practically uninsurable when he signed here?

Anyway, I'm still really impressed with Melo! Down to only 24th on the SI top 100:

Carmelo's 21/7/4 stat line was matched in all three categories by only three players: Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook.

Go Melo Go! He made the top 25 finally.

Once again, mr. i only read picturebooks ChuckyBooBoo misses the point:

Based on what many perceive as Melo's "best" season metrically, No. 24 seems fair heading into the 2016-17 season.

When he's at his best, which we saw this summer in Rio, Anthony is still one of the world's best and most dominant players. If the Knicks have a strong season this year and Melo continues to assist Porzingis' development, I would expect Melo to vault near the top 10, where he was a fixture for years.

LOL top 10, that's a good one! 24 is about as good as it gets for no D Melo.

We don't need Melo to be top 10 or even top 15. We just need him to take enough pressure off our unicorn and feed him the rock when he can. That's in Melo's and the Knicks best interests the next few years.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NykInsider/status/775864850308173824

more than other summers and more than others in his situation?

The guy that tweeted it probably didn't follow him in the summer when he was a bull. Rose is healthy and working out instead of rehabbing. Also, it is at Melo's Gym.

off season PR never did it for me ... I'm all amare'd out.

I don't know. If there is negative speculation possibly even linked to anonymous sources or even if there is mind reading that puts things in a negative light it seems to get you excited about the Knicks. Guys working out together doesn't though?

I get excited with good play. I am not a dope who buys into stupid off season sh1t that is meant to cater to the dumb part of the fan base.

Check the game threads and maybe you will get my enthusiasm. Or, do you not police those?

I don't consider checking in on what guys are doing in regards to working out in the off season as being dopey if you are a fan of that team. I think that is part of being a fan. Do you think it is dopey to bite at false and fictitious media reports by the NY media?

nothing wrong with following that stuff and be interested but its the people who buy all the hype every off season.

you should police some of that stuff, we can all use your expertise in keeping it real.