dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Too many chuckers for him to average 20, so I'll be happy with valuing each shot attempt over volume. If he improves his TS% and efficiency, that's a better barometer than his per game averages.

I'd like for him to up his rebounds, up his assists, up his blocks, and average a healthy steal a game. If he does the little things first, the offense will come later as he continues to mature, and the chuckers are all gone.

Better to be a true 2 way player, a true all around player, then worrying about bucket making in year 2. The true greats of the game work on excelling in all facets of the game, not just putting the ball up.

Where are the chuckers on this roster, are you talking about Melo and Rose,2 players who have been playing with avg to below avg talent around them. You only chuck, when everyone around you sucks.

Every one on the Olympic team chucks because they are the best players on their respective team. When you surrounded by talent, you eventually come to the realization that you don't have to shoot as much, which rose has said a 100 times since the trade.

If you rotate your scorers correctly, they will have opportunities. Unlike fisher and rambis who would take out kp, melo, and afflalo all at once, which was flat out stupid.

There isn't a person on this board that would continue to pass the ball if there teammates continue to brick shots and turn the ball over

so it's a safe bet you would agree that neither melo or rose makes others around him better? can't have it both ways.

Rose may not have had a lot of assists but he did pass the ball at a reasonable rate. I expect that Rose will increase his assists from 5 to 8 a game with this roster. A lot of what leads to assists is the players around you. Rose will have more guys who will look to catch and shoot and be more likely to make those shots.

                                                               Passes
Player	                Team	GP	W	L	MIN     Made  AST
Rajon Rondo             SAC	71	29	42	35.4	74.2  11.7
Deron Williams          DAL	65	31	34	32.4	71.5   5.8
John Wall               WAS	77	37	40	36.2	70.9  10.2
Kemba Walker            CHA	81	47	34	35.6	66.6   5.2
Kyle Lowry              TOR	76	53	23	36.9	65.7   6.4
Ish Smith               PHI	77	16	61	29.1	64.2   6.5
Goran Dragic            MIA	72	44	28	32.8	62.9   5.8 
Jarrett Jack            BKN	32	10	22	32.1	62.8   7.4
Mike Conley             MEM	56	33	23	31.4	62.0   6.1
Chris Paul              LAC	74	50	24	32.7	61.9  10.0 
Ricky Rubio             MIN	76	28	48	30.6	61.9   8.7
Eric Bledsoe            PHX	31	12	19	34.2	61.1   6.8
Damian Lillard          POR	75	40	35	35.7	60.1   6.1
Tyreke Evans            NOP	25	11	14	30.6	59.6   6.6
Isaiah Thomas           BOS	81	47	34	32.2	59.3   6.2
Jose Calderon           NYK	72	29	43	28.1	59.2   4.1
Russell Westbrook       OKC	80	55	25	34.4	58.6  10.4
Elfrid Payton           ORL	72	32	40	29.5	58.1   6.4
George Hill             IND	74	41	33	34.1	57.7   3.5
Stephen Curry           GSW	79	71	8	34.2	56.8   6.7
Brandon Knight          PHX	52	16	36	36.0	56.3   5.2
Michael Carter-Williams MIL	54	21	33	30.5	55.8   5.2
Derrick Rose            CHI	66	32	34	31.8	55.0   4.7
Tony Parker             SAS	72	59	13	27.5	53.8   5.3 

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

have you sorted for points created off of assists? it's a sobering revelation. i suggest you have a look.

If a player misses a wide open shot, is that the is passer fault..

If the passer doesn't use timing, touch, and accuracy then it's a bad pass and the shooter misses it's the passer'S fault.

I agree, it can go either way, the good thing is that, from all accounts, rose has said he has never played with 3 to 4 options on the his team, and we all have wittness the bulls teams he played on.

JH had some trigger happy guards in bledsoe, Knight, and dragic when he coached the SUNs, and he had all three on the floor at the same time sharing the rock, and getting Frye(career #s under jh) some wide open 3's.

Kp should have a very good season, at the pace JH wants to play at, and the passer that the Noah is, skies the limit. Beside's, you can't be a chucker or ball hog(WHATEVER THE DEFINITION) in the fast past triagnle.

There are things that Rose has said the has confirm he's matured a lot, like reconizing how reckless he was playing because of his athletic abilty. To me, that's like an addict admitting he has a problem and wants to change.

I hope I don't sound too much like NIX

hornacek has never had a player like kp6-- nobody has. instead of dickering around with a "two-guard attack" and whatnot, the hornacek knicks should be focussing on the front-court play of what could be a lethal troika of noah, melo, and kp6. the guard play should make its presence felt by defending the position (yeah right), or at least getting steals, and creating fast breaks with kickouts to the three-point line. outside of that sort of offensive contribution, the guards should be catering as much as possible to elbow and midpost players. only if they get a favorable guard matchup, ie a calderon type, should drives to the basket take priority over the frontcourt offense.

if hornacek is smart he will make the most important player, the player with the most potential for growth, a potential dirk/kg hybrid, the focus of his tenure.

the knicks, no strangers to squandering good fortune, should be looking to winning a title in melo's last year here, unless he opts out. the only way you do that is making kp6 the main guy, starting NOW.

Exactly right. If winning big is the focus, and that's King Kong sized IF, then it's time to hand the keys to KP, but in a productive way. Not hand the ball or 1 pass to KP and do his thing ISO Bullshyt. But draw up plays, set screens for him, find him on kickouts, find him when he has a mouse in the house, find him on the break. Utilize this unicorn like phucking pegasus. If Rose can't be an efficient facilitator, let Melo and Noah find this guy on backdoors. Let him cut to the hoop like a phucking Ginzu knife. Guy is 7'3 with a wingspan of a Condor, he'll be found and has great hands and instincts.

Melo should play Paul Pierce Role, Noah sage veteran sanitation worker, Lee corner 3 knockdown and back court defender, and Rose...just play glorified caddy and not try to turn back the clock to NBA 2K11.

That should be the recipe for success to MEGA OVER ACHIEVE to 50 wins. David Robinson was able to swallow his pride to make way for TD..but alas, egos...man, egos. This team has a ton of that! We can't ever have anything nice in New York.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

Did the Knicks get better or worse?

they have gotten better, just not enough better. last year i predicted 34 wins, they won 32. espn predicted a laughable 25 wins. this year i predict 38-43 wins, so call it 41 wins. my predictions are more reliable than espn's, but neither me or espn see the knicks making the playoffs unless the knicks become kp6's team-- by edict of hrnacek and jackson-- and rose, melo, and noah promote that agenda. that's the shortest route to winning. sadly, it does not look like it will go that way.

OK so what would KP have to produce in order for him to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in your version of things? What exactly do you expect KP to average if he's the #1 option for the team this year? It's KP's team now so go ahead and let us know what you think it's gonna take from him to get this team into the playoffs.

the notion of "carrying a team" or "putting a team on his back" are just about the stupidest concepts and conceits the modern nba has to offer the dullard fanbase. it's a team game so what i am saying is the knicks will be a better team with the agenda i have laid out. it's a matter of knowing your role. rose and melo have always been challenged by this concept. that can change at this stage of their respective careers. it comes down to ego, of course... or character, if you will.

off the top of my head:

kp 20 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists
melo 22 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists
noah 10 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists
rose 15 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists
lee 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

Did the Knicks get better or worse?

they have gotten better, just not enough better. last year i predicted 34 wins, they won 32. espn predicted a laughable 25 wins. this year i predict 38-43 wins, so call it 41 wins. my predictions are more reliable than espn's, but neither me or espn see the knicks making the playoffs unless the knicks become kp6's team-- by edict of hrnacek and jackson-- and rose, melo, and noah promote that agenda. that's the shortest route to winning. sadly, it does not look like it will go that way.

OK so what would KP have to produce in order for him to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in your version of things? What exactly do you expect KP to average if he's the #1 option for the team this year? It's KP's team now so go ahead and let us know what you think it's gonna take from him to get this team into the playoffs.

the notion of "carrying a team" or "putting a team on his back" are just about the stupidest concepts and conceits the modern nba has to offer the dullard fanbase. it's a team game so what i am saying is the knicks will be a better team with the agenda i have laid out. it's a matter of knowing your role. rose and melo have always been challenged by this concept. that can change at this stage of their respective careers. it comes down to ego, of course... or character, if you will.

off the top of my head:

kp 20 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists
melo 22 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists
noah 10 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists
rose 15 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists
lee 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists

There is nothing stopping KP from putting up those kind of numbers. The agenda you've laid out is severely overstated. You have a problem with the idea of a player carrying a team, which is a FACT by the way, but you still believe that the Knicks need to become "KP's team" in order for them to win. SMDH!!!

The top 3 scorers will pretty predictably end up being Melo, Rose and KP in what exact order they end up is totally up in the air. From everything his teammates have said, they all want KP to succeed. Rose already respects KP as a player and he is not going to ignore him when he's open. So what you fear is simply unfounded. Rose is not going to come here and basically ignore the best players on his team. In his entire playing career he's never done that.

You underestimate the propensity of players overcompensating even at the expense of this team or teammates during contract years. There's no guarantees he'll be a Knick beyond this season, so who's to say he won't go off script or go off the rails and just play for himself and Reggie?

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

Did the Knicks get better or worse?

they have gotten better, just not enough better. last year i predicted 34 wins, they won 32. espn predicted a laughable 25 wins. this year i predict 38-43 wins, so call it 41 wins. my predictions are more reliable than espn's, but neither me or espn see the knicks making the playoffs unless the knicks become kp6's team-- by edict of hrnacek and jackson-- and rose, melo, and noah promote that agenda. that's the shortest route to winning. sadly, it does not look like it will go that way.

OK so what would KP have to produce in order for him to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in your version of things? What exactly do you expect KP to average if he's the #1 option for the team this year? It's KP's team now so go ahead and let us know what you think it's gonna take from him to get this team into the playoffs.

the notion of "carrying a team" or "putting a team on his back" are just about the stupidest concepts and conceits the modern nba has to offer the dullard fanbase. it's a team game so what i am saying is the knicks will be a better team with the agenda i have laid out. it's a matter of knowing your role. rose and melo have always been challenged by this concept. that can change at this stage of their respective careers. it comes down to ego, of course... or character, if you will.

off the top of my head:

kp 20 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists
melo 22 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists
noah 10 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists
rose 15 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists
lee 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists

There is nothing stopping KP from putting up those kind of numbers. The agenda you've laid out is severely overstated. You have a problem with the idea of a player carrying a team, which is a FACT by the way, but you still believe that the Knicks need to become "KP's team" in order for them to win. SMDH!!!

The top 3 scorers will pretty predictably end up being Melo, Rose and KP in what exact order they end up is totally up in the air. From everything his teammates have said, they all want KP to succeed. Rose already respects KP as a player and he is not going to ignore him when he's open. So what you fear is simply unfounded. Rose is not going to come here and basically ignore the best players on his team. In his entire playing career he's never done that.

You underestimate the propensity of players overcompensating even at the expense of this team or teammates during contract years. There's no guarantees he'll be a Knick beyond this season, so who's to say he won't go off script or go off the rails and just play for himself and Reggie?

I think this kind of speculation is really not valid. Rose is fully aware of the need to play team ball. You have NOTHING with which to refute this but just your own conjecture. Everything Rose has said so far indicates he's fully aware of the need to pass the ball and play team oriented ball. He's also shown in the past that he's more than capable of being a passer. Despire the narrative that Rose can't pass, which isn't true. Rose's Assist % was going up before his injuries took him down.

Season  Age  Tm  Lg  Pos G  MP  PER  TS%  3PAr FTr  ORB% DRB% TRB% AST%  STL%  BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM  VORP
2008-09	20   CHI NBA PG	81 3000	16.0 .516 .060 .207 3.7	 8.4  6.1  28.8  1.1   0.4  13.3  22.6  3.4  1.5  4.9  .078  0.9  -1.5 -0.6 1.1
2009-10 ★21 CHI	 NBA PG	78 2871	18.6 .532 .044 .246 2.6	 8.7  5.7  30.3  1.0   0.7  12.5  27.2	3.5  2.5  6.0  .100  1.7  -1.3  0.5 1.8
2010-11 ★22 CHI	 NBA PG	81 3026	23.5 .550 .241 .348 3.2  9.4  6.4  38.7  1.5   1.3  13.1  32.2	8.3  4.8  13.1 .208  5.8   0.1	5.9 6.0
2011-12 ★23 CHI NBA PG	39 1375	23.0 .532 .249 .344 2.1	 8.4  5.3  40.3	 1.4   1.4  12.9  30.5	4.1  2.0  6.0  .211  5.5  -0.6	4.9 2.4

nixluva this was FIVE YEARS AGO. if you wanted to be intellectually honest here you would look at the last 4 seasons to see trends:

12-13 INJURED
13-14 INJURED
14-15 31.7 usage/ 30.7 assist rate-- that's over 1:1 ratio and horrid for a pg over a paltry 51 games but enough of a sample size
15-16 27.3 and 25.5 again OVER 1:1 which is horrible for a pg over a paltry 66 games but again enough of a sample size

dk7th wrote:

Gudris wrote:Nobody will give that leadership to KP just like that, if he will be ready to take over Melo and team will start to win more, im sure Melo will let him do this

i say he's ready. joakim noah will have a huge effect and should support the shift, insofar as he will be playing a major role in kp6's development as a player and a leader.

think about it: melo is here for at least the next two seasons, with an early termination option in 2018-2019. the goal for melo is to win in new york, right? well, that goal can be achieved if the direction of the team changes NOW in anticipation of 2017-18 and especially melo's potential final season as a knick, which is 2018-2019.

this season should be about melo and rose stepping back and adjusting their games, and promoting kp6 to do more of the "heavy lifting." noah is going to help no matter what because that's just how great a pro he is.

so my contention is you throw kp6 into the deep end of the pool and see if he can swim. knicks are not going anywhere this season anyway, nowhere close to a title.

this season should be considered year one of a three-year plan, and should be regarded as a rebuilding year. no shame in a 38-43 win season. getting to .500 is a reasonable goal, but if they fall short in that, at least we will see how much kp6 can grow as a player, perhaps a franchise player, perhaps even a generational player.

imagine a player who is part dirk, part kg. that's what i have seen from day 1.

You can't force a player into a leadership role, he has to develop into that, and dirk was never really a leader IMO.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

Did the Knicks get better or worse?

they have gotten better, just not enough better. last year i predicted 34 wins, they won 32. espn predicted a laughable 25 wins. this year i predict 38-43 wins, so call it 41 wins. my predictions are more reliable than espn's, but neither me or espn see the knicks making the playoffs unless the knicks become kp6's team-- by edict of hrnacek and jackson-- and rose, melo, and noah promote that agenda. that's the shortest route to winning. sadly, it does not look like it will go that way.

OK so what would KP have to produce in order for him to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in your version of things? What exactly do you expect KP to average if he's the #1 option for the team this year? It's KP's team now so go ahead and let us know what you think it's gonna take from him to get this team into the playoffs.

the notion of "carrying a team" or "putting a team on his back" are just about the stupidest concepts and conceits the modern nba has to offer the dullard fanbase. it's a team game so what i am saying is the knicks will be a better team with the agenda i have laid out. it's a matter of knowing your role. rose and melo have always been challenged by this concept. that can change at this stage of their respective careers. it comes down to ego, of course... or character, if you will.

off the top of my head:

kp 20 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists
melo 22 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists
noah 10 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists
rose 15 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists
lee 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists

There is nothing stopping KP from putting up those kind of numbers. The agenda you've laid out is severely overstated. You have a problem with the idea of a player carrying a team, which is a FACT by the way, but you still believe that the Knicks need to become "KP's team" in order for them to win. SMDH!!!

The top 3 scorers will pretty predictably end up being Melo, Rose and KP in what exact order they end up is totally up in the air. From everything his teammates have said, they all want KP to succeed. Rose already respects KP as a player and he is not going to ignore him when he's open. So what you fear is simply unfounded. Rose is not going to come here and basically ignore the best players on his team. In his entire playing career he's never done that.

You underestimate the propensity of players overcompensating even at the expense of this team or teammates during contract years. There's no guarantees he'll be a Knick beyond this season, so who's to say he won't go off script or go off the rails and just play for himself and Reggie?

I think this kind of speculation is really not valid. Rose is fully aware of the need to play team ball. You have NOTHING with which to refute this but just your own conjecture. Everything Rose has said so far indicates he's fully aware of the need to pass the ball and play team oriented ball. He's also shown in the past that he's more than capable of being a passer. Despire the narrative that Rose can't pass, which isn't true. Rose's Assist % was going up before his injuries took him down.

Season  Age  Tm  Lg  Pos G  MP  PER  TS%  3PAr FTr  ORB% DRB% TRB% AST%  STL%  BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM  VORP
2008-09	20   CHI NBA PG	81 3000	16.0 .516 .060 .207 3.7	 8.4  6.1  28.8  1.1   0.4  13.3  22.6  3.4  1.5  4.9  .078  0.9  -1.5 -0.6 1.1
2009-10 ★21 CHI	 NBA PG	78 2871	18.6 .532 .044 .246 2.6	 8.7  5.7  30.3  1.0   0.7  12.5  27.2	3.5  2.5  6.0  .100  1.7  -1.3  0.5 1.8
2010-11 ★22 CHI	 NBA PG	81 3026	23.5 .550 .241 .348 3.2  9.4  6.4  38.7  1.5   1.3  13.1  32.2	8.3  4.8  13.1 .208  5.8   0.1	5.9 6.0
2011-12 ★23 CHI NBA PG	39 1375	23.0 .532 .249 .344 2.1	 8.4  5.3  40.3	 1.4   1.4  12.9  30.5	4.1  2.0  6.0  .211  5.5  -0.6	4.9 2.4

nixluva this was FIVE YEARS AGO. if you wanted to be intellectually honest here you would look at the last 4 seasons to see trends:

12-13 INJURED
13-14 INJURED
14-15 31.7 usage/ 30.7 assist rate-- that's over 1:1 ratio and horrid for a pg over a paltry 51 games but enough of a sample size
15-16 27.3 and 25.5 again OVER 1:1 which is horrible for a pg over a paltry 66 games but again enough of a sample size

How the F is it intellectually dishonest if you have the actual DATES next to the stats? My point was that Rose was able to pass the ball at a high rate in the past, despite a high usage and that is not something you can't do anymore just cuz you don't jump as high. If he was able to do it before he can do it again. I expect that with this roster we will see Rose improve his assist %.

You are only interested in talking Rose down and so it's easy for you to just look at the recent injury impacted seasons and make a negative case based on that. It's my contention that Rose is on the way back up and we got him at just the right time. You may not appreciate that but I believe Rose can play better and that next season we will see a better version of Rose compared with the last few years.

so you are basically saying that we should not look at the last two most recent seasons and instead look at seasons from 5,6 years ago instead? is that what you are saying? if so, then that's being intellectually dishonest.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

Did the Knicks get better or worse?

they have gotten better, just not enough better. last year i predicted 34 wins, they won 32. espn predicted a laughable 25 wins. this year i predict 38-43 wins, so call it 41 wins. my predictions are more reliable than espn's, but neither me or espn see the knicks making the playoffs unless the knicks become kp6's team-- by edict of hrnacek and jackson-- and rose, melo, and noah promote that agenda. that's the shortest route to winning. sadly, it does not look like it will go that way.

OK so what would KP have to produce in order for him to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in your version of things? What exactly do you expect KP to average if he's the #1 option for the team this year? It's KP's team now so go ahead and let us know what you think it's gonna take from him to get this team into the playoffs.

the notion of "carrying a team" or "putting a team on his back" are just about the stupidest concepts and conceits the modern nba has to offer the dullard fanbase. it's a team game so what i am saying is the knicks will be a better team with the agenda i have laid out. it's a matter of knowing your role. rose and melo have always been challenged by this concept. that can change at this stage of their respective careers. it comes down to ego, of course... or character, if you will.

off the top of my head:

kp 20 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists
melo 22 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists
noah 10 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists
rose 15 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists
lee 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists

There is nothing stopping KP from putting up those kind of numbers. The agenda you've laid out is severely overstated. You have a problem with the idea of a player carrying a team, which is a FACT by the way, but you still believe that the Knicks need to become "KP's team" in order for them to win. SMDH!!!

The top 3 scorers will pretty predictably end up being Melo, Rose and KP in what exact order they end up is totally up in the air. From everything his teammates have said, they all want KP to succeed. Rose already respects KP as a player and he is not going to ignore him when he's open. So what you fear is simply unfounded. Rose is not going to come here and basically ignore the best players on his team. In his entire playing career he's never done that.

You underestimate the propensity of players overcompensating even at the expense of this team or teammates during contract years. There's no guarantees he'll be a Knick beyond this season, so who's to say he won't go off script or go off the rails and just play for himself and Reggie?

I think this kind of speculation is really not valid. Rose is fully aware of the need to play team ball. You have NOTHING with which to refute this but just your own conjecture. Everything Rose has said so far indicates he's fully aware of the need to pass the ball and play team oriented ball. He's also shown in the past that he's more than capable of being a passer. Despire the narrative that Rose can't pass, which isn't true. Rose's Assist % was going up before his injuries took him down.

Season  Age  Tm  Lg  Pos G  MP  PER  TS%  3PAr FTr  ORB% DRB% TRB% AST%  STL%  BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM  VORP
2008-09	20   CHI NBA PG	81 3000	16.0 .516 .060 .207 3.7	 8.4  6.1  28.8  1.1   0.4  13.3  22.6  3.4  1.5  4.9  .078  0.9  -1.5 -0.6 1.1
2009-10 ★21 CHI	 NBA PG	78 2871	18.6 .532 .044 .246 2.6	 8.7  5.7  30.3  1.0   0.7  12.5  27.2	3.5  2.5  6.0  .100  1.7  -1.3  0.5 1.8
2010-11 ★22 CHI	 NBA PG	81 3026	23.5 .550 .241 .348 3.2  9.4  6.4  38.7  1.5   1.3  13.1  32.2	8.3  4.8  13.1 .208  5.8   0.1	5.9 6.0
2011-12 ★23 CHI NBA PG	39 1375	23.0 .532 .249 .344 2.1	 8.4  5.3  40.3	 1.4   1.4  12.9  30.5	4.1  2.0  6.0  .211  5.5  -0.6	4.9 2.4

nixluva this was FIVE YEARS AGO. if you wanted to be intellectually honest here you would look at the last 4 seasons to see trends:

12-13 INJURED
13-14 INJURED
14-15 31.7 usage/ 30.7 assist rate-- that's over 1:1 ratio and horrid for a pg over a paltry 51 games but enough of a sample size
15-16 27.3 and 25.5 again OVER 1:1 which is horrible for a pg over a paltry 66 games but again enough of a sample size

How the F is it intellectually dishonest if you have the actual DATES next to the stats? My point was that Rose was able to pass the ball at a high rate in the past, despite a high usage and that is not something you can't do anymore just cuz you don't jump as high. If he was able to do it before he can do it again. I expect that with this roster we will see Rose improve his assist %.

You are only interested in talking Rose down and so it's easy for you to just look at the recent injury impacted seasons and make a negative case based on that. It's my contention that Rose is on the way back up and we got him at just the right time. You may not appreciate that but I believe Rose can play better and that next season we will see a better version of Rose compared with the last few years.

so you are basically saying that we should not look at the last two most recent seasons and instead look at seasons from 5,6 years ago instead? is that what you are saying? if so, then that's being intellectually dishonest.

LOOK! If you are trying to make the argument that Rose CAN'T be a player who can pass at a high rate because he never could, then you are wrong. The reason I show the stats from before the injuries is to prove that he has in his career been a player who can pass the ball at a good level. We all know he was hampered by injury and his numbers were down in all aspects of the game. At the same time the team around him in Chicago had changed. So there have been a lot of circumstances mitigating his performance. I believe that Rose is fully capable of passing the ball at a good level and that with more talent around him here in NY, we will see his Assist % increase.

My problem with you is that you are trying to say that Rose CAN'T pass the ball acceptably. We all know he's not a Pure PG like CP3. He's got a lot of bad habits as well, but Rose is capable enough to help make his teammates better. It may not always be pretty but it can be effective as it was in the past.