StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah.... no. so this moron says lets build the team around rose and melo. ha ha.

garbage article with a douchebag point of view. lets hope the knicks never come close to this scenario. just horrible analysis.

next.

Totally agree with this.

Bunk ass article. In no universe should Rose nor Melo be the primary option with a God in your presence...

You guys realize that it's only logical to talk about Rose and Melo as the lead of the offensive attack? This isn't to suggest that KP won't be a primary target as well. That's why they call it a Big 3. All 3 players will be the likely leaders of this team's offense.

I simply can't fathom why KNICKS FANS would be so annoyed at such a logical point made in this article. It's absurd not to recognize that Rose and Melo will be expected to carry a large portion of the load and that they would look to make things easier on KP and let him build up his game naturally rather than forcing it. The more KP shows he can handle the more he'll get to do. As the 3rd option KP will not be place at any disadvantage. If his game develops faster and he can handle more then fine.

No way in hell KP is the third option. Rose isnt the same player anymore, i think he can still help us but he isnt the player he once was. Im fine if melo gets some more touches but KP should be looked at as our main weapon too

You seem to also be missing the main point. There is simply no need to FORCE things with KP. If he develops during the course of the season into a primary option along the lines of a Dirk, then nothing is going to stop the Knicks from featuring him that way. However, that has yet to be proven. He's not starting the season off with that kind of pressure. There's no need to place that kind of pressure on him either. Let it happen naturally!!! Rose and Melo are vets and already used to that kind of pressure so let them take it and allow KP to find his game without that pressure.

im not missing the point at all. I know you are a very optimistic person but i think you may be expecting too much from Rose at this point. Melo and KP should be the big guns in the offense

My optimism has NOTHING to do with my main point which is that Rose and Melo as vets with proven histories of being lead players should continue that role and let KP play off of them at least to start so that there's less pressure on KP. There is simply no reason to force things with KP. Let KP naturally take on what he's comfortable with. If he shows he is ready for more there would be no problem with letting him take it on, but no way you force it early.

I really have no idea what you ChuckBuck and dk7th are going on about when it comes to this Rose thing. Rose is not coming here to take a backseat. He's going to have a prominent role. He's the lead guard for goodness sakes. While Rose had a rough start due to the Orbital Surgery, he did start to get his game going and I suspect he's gonna come into next season raring to go in a contract year.

Melo is going to also come into next season looking to lead along with Noah and Rose. This nonsense about Rose and Melo not being up to it is crazy. The Knicks Big 3 is Rose, Melo and KP, PERIOD!!!

it's not forcing things! he's already shown he is ready for more, which translates to he's comfortable taking on more. he was a close second in rookie of the year and he ranked in the top 5 among power forwards last year. he wants the responsibility and the pressure and does not need to be coddled or brought along slowly. by doing so you are putting him behind the other two. he is a phenomenon but no-- "lets take it slow."

"we just spent 20 million dollars on a washed up player so lets make him part of our "big 3." by telling rose "it's your team because you a re the lead guard" you are actually hindering kp6's growth.

i am speaking about what we have seen while you are speaking about what we have yet to see.

Excellent Post. KP is clearly ready to take the next step without having to force it.

KP is already a primary scorer for this team but he doesn't come into the season with a history of being the #1 option which you guys are completely missing. Rose has been an MVP and leader of his team. Melo has won a scoring title and been the #1 option on his teams. KP as talented as he is, has yet to play an entire season as the primary scoring option, PERIOD!!!

Now if KP shows in camp that he's ready to take on that kind of role it will be evident to Hornacek and he can adjust things as necessary. However, there's no reason to push Rose aside as if he is just some scrub we brought in to only pass the ball. Let's not get carried away with the Rose criticisms. What we needed most was an uptempo and penetrating PG. This is something that Rose does very well to this very day. Rose will pass the ball to his fellow starters. It's simply not true that he won't pass the ball to them.

im not missing any point. Ive probably played and watched just as much bball as you have. I NEVER called Rose washed up, in fact i said he will help. HOWEVER this isnt 2012 rose anymore. All those injuries have taken a toll..you would be a fool to deny that. As for KP i understand he wasnt the main option last year and in spain but that was mostly because of his age. Aftwr a successful rookie year he will be able to take the next step along side melo as our main options

I'm not just talking to you ya know! Some of what I'm writing is directed at dk7th.

Regarding Rose the injury thing is obvious but what goes underrated is just how much he still has left. You will see just how good he stil is next season. You guys can keep TALKIN him down but you're making a huge mistake.

We all know how talented KP is. The fact remains that he has yet to show he is ready to be a #1 option. There literally no reason to thrust him into that role just yet. Let him do his thing with other teams focused on Rose and Melo! He'll be able to do lots of damage that way minus unnecessary pressure. This is a good situation that many young players don't have the luxury of having.

How am i talking him down? I clearly said multiple times that he will HELP us. However he isnt the same player he was. Its not a knock just the facts of life. Im a diehard knick fan but i always try to be objective

The suggestion that Rose is not going to be a lead option along with Melo is talking him down. He's gonna have the ball in his hands a lot and both Melo and KP will benefit from his ability to push and penetrate, which he still does at an elite level.

whatever man if you think thats talking him down then i dont know what to tell you. I just think you should temper expectations with Rose. Just because he isnt a elite mvp anymore doesnt mean he isnt a good player anymore.

WTF? How am I somehow raising expectations for Rose? Temper my expectations suggests I put some kind of outsized expectation on Rose when I did no such thing. Read what I've written and you'll see I said this team needed a PG that could push and penetrate. Rose still does that at a high level so WTF are you talking about?

Unless you've got something specific to say regarding Rose's role I don't get your point. Rose is still one of the top guards in terms of driving to the rim. He didn't lose that. He's going to do that along with running PnR for this team and that will help Melo, KP and Lee a lot.

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah.... no. so this moron says lets build the team around rose and melo. ha ha.

garbage article with a douchebag point of view. lets hope the knicks never come close to this scenario. just horrible analysis.

next.

Totally agree with this.

Bunk ass article. In no universe should Rose nor Melo be the primary option with a God in your presence...

You guys realize that it's only logical to talk about Rose and Melo as the lead of the offensive attack? This isn't to suggest that KP won't be a primary target as well. That's why they call it a Big 3. All 3 players will be the likely leaders of this team's offense.

I simply can't fathom why KNICKS FANS would be so annoyed at such a logical point made in this article. It's absurd not to recognize that Rose and Melo will be expected to carry a large portion of the load and that they would look to make things easier on KP and let him build up his game naturally rather than forcing it. The more KP shows he can handle the more he'll get to do. As the 3rd option KP will not be place at any disadvantage. If his game develops faster and he can handle more then fine.

No way in hell KP is the third option. Rose isnt the same player anymore, i think he can still help us but he isnt the player he once was. Im fine if melo gets some more touches but KP should be looked at as our main weapon too

You seem to also be missing the main point. There is simply no need to FORCE things with KP. If he develops during the course of the season into a primary option along the lines of a Dirk, then nothing is going to stop the Knicks from featuring him that way. However, that has yet to be proven. He's not starting the season off with that kind of pressure. There's no need to place that kind of pressure on him either. Let it happen naturally!!! Rose and Melo are vets and already used to that kind of pressure so let them take it and allow KP to find his game without that pressure.

im not missing the point at all. I know you are a very optimistic person but i think you may be expecting too much from Rose at this point. Melo and KP should be the big guns in the offense

My optimism has NOTHING to do with my main point which is that Rose and Melo as vets with proven histories of being lead players should continue that role and let KP play off of them at least to start so that there's less pressure on KP. There is simply no reason to force things with KP. Let KP naturally take on what he's comfortable with. If he shows he is ready for more there would be no problem with letting him take it on, but no way you force it early.

I really have no idea what you ChuckBuck and dk7th are going on about when it comes to this Rose thing. Rose is not coming here to take a backseat. He's going to have a prominent role. He's the lead guard for goodness sakes. While Rose had a rough start due to the Orbital Surgery, he did start to get his game going and I suspect he's gonna come into next season raring to go in a contract year.

Melo is going to also come into next season looking to lead along with Noah and Rose. This nonsense about Rose and Melo not being up to it is crazy. The Knicks Big 3 is Rose, Melo and KP, PERIOD!!!

it's not forcing things! he's already shown he is ready for more, which translates to he's comfortable taking on more. he was a close second in rookie of the year and he ranked in the top 5 among power forwards last year. he wants the responsibility and the pressure and does not need to be coddled or brought along slowly. by doing so you are putting him behind the other two. he is a phenomenon but no-- "lets take it slow."

"we just spent 20 million dollars on a washed up player so lets make him part of our "big 3." by telling rose "it's your team because you a re the lead guard" you are actually hindering kp6's growth.

i am speaking about what we have seen while you are speaking about what we have yet to see.

Excellent Post. KP is clearly ready to take the next step without having to force it.

KP is already a primary scorer for this team but he doesn't come into the season with a history of being the #1 option which you guys are completely missing. Rose has been an MVP and leader of his team. Melo has won a scoring title and been the #1 option on his teams. KP as talented as he is, has yet to play an entire season as the primary scoring option, PERIOD!!!

Now if KP shows in camp that he's ready to take on that kind of role it will be evident to Hornacek and he can adjust things as necessary. However, there's no reason to push Rose aside as if he is just some scrub we brought in to only pass the ball. Let's not get carried away with the Rose criticisms. What we needed most was an uptempo and penetrating PG. This is something that Rose does very well to this very day. Rose will pass the ball to his fellow starters. It's simply not true that he won't pass the ball to them.

im not missing any point. Ive probably played and watched just as much bball as you have. I NEVER called Rose washed up, in fact i said he will help. HOWEVER this isnt 2012 rose anymore. All those injuries have taken a toll..you would be a fool to deny that. As for KP i understand he wasnt the main option last year and in spain but that was mostly because of his age. Aftwr a successful rookie year he will be able to take the next step along side melo as our main options

I'm not just talking to you ya know! Some of what I'm writing is directed at dk7th.

Regarding Rose the injury thing is obvious but what goes underrated is just how much he still has left. You will see just how good he stil is next season. You guys can keep TALKIN him down but you're making a huge mistake.

We all know how talented KP is. The fact remains that he has yet to show he is ready to be a #1 option. There literally no reason to thrust him into that role just yet. Let him do his thing with other teams focused on Rose and Melo! He'll be able to do lots of damage that way minus unnecessary pressure. This is a good situation that many young players don't have the luxury of having.

How am i talking him down? I clearly said multiple times that he will HELP us. However he isnt the same player he was. Its not a knock just the facts of life. Im a diehard knick fan but i always try to be objective

The suggestion that Rose is not going to be a lead option along with Melo is talking him down. He's gonna have the ball in his hands a lot and both Melo and KP will benefit from his ability to push and penetrate, which he still does at an elite level.

whatever man if you think thats talking him down then i dont know what to tell you. I just think you should temper expectations with Rose. Just because he isnt a elite mvp anymore doesnt mean he isnt a good player anymore.

WTF? How am I somehow raising expectations for Rose? Temper my expectations suggests I put some kind of outsized expectation on Rose when I did no such thing. Read what I've written and you'll see I said this team needed a PG that could push and penetrate. Rose still does that at a high level so WTF are you talking about?

Unless you've got something specific to say regarding Rose's role I don't get your point. Rose is still one of the top guards in terms of driving to the rim. He didn't lose that. He's going to do that along with running PnR for this team and that will help Melo, KP and Lee a lot.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:
rose is a ****ty passer. if your passes don't make others better then your passes are empty calories and ****ty. and he is a ****ty defender, one of the absolute worst in the league.

being a ****ty passer and a ****ty defender has a demoralizing effect on teammates.

the only thing rose *may* be sufficient at is pushing the ball in transition.

outside of pushing the ball in transition, rose should be working on making good entry passes to melo, kp6, and noah (and hernangomez if he is as advertised) to initiate the half court sets. then be a cutter. subordinate his ego to his betters. play for others instead of himself. his usage should be well below the stagnation-inducing 32% he has been indulged with. his usage should be well below 25%. the modified triangle will be primarily an inside out offense, making rose's contributions less and minimizing his negatives. we're already in the hole with him as a defender as it is.

kp6 has already shown what he can do, and going into camp he need "show/prove" nothing. the plan should be from the first second to create an offense around melo and kp6.

you know who needs to show worthiness? you know he needs to adapt? rose does.

You need to stop exaggerating just to make your point. Rose is not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard. That said he's capable of setting up his teammates. You're talking like a fool if you think Rose isn't going to drive and kick to his teammates or pass into the post.
ab
Now he has been a putrid defender. That can't continue. I do believe he will be helped by playing with Noah, KP and Lee.

Hornacek is the one creating the offensive schemes that should maximize the talent he has. Based on what he's done before he should be able to get a lot out of this talent.

KP is going to be a primary option along with Rose and Melo. It's beyond stupid to think a dynamic guard like Rose won't be used to the full. His ability to breakdown a D is a key component to how this is gonna work.

he's okay at pushing the ball but his drive and kick game is sub-standard, unless you like felton's game. the videos show he can't do wht he used to do so he will need to adapt his game, which is not a probability.

ask yourself: if rose was on a longer contract would you be talking like this? be honest

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:^^^^They are taking a developmental approach with KP. They want him to be around good, high character guys on a team that is competing and makes the playoffs. The Knicks are KP's team in the future but it seems odd to ignore the words and actions of the president and gm and suggest that they want to take at advantage of Melo's talents now.

“One of my questions to Carmelo was — we haven’t made the playoffs in three years — are we moving quickly enough for you in anticipation of being in a competitive playoffs situation,’’ Jackson said. “That conversation established the idea he’s getting into an age range where things have to happen. We decided to activate ourselves a little quicker.’’

According to Jackson, Anthony told him his “first priority was to get a point guard.” Jackson said the free-agent point-guard market — with Mike Conley topping the list but ultimately remaining in Memphis — likely would turn into a bleak scenario.

“As I looked down the [point-guard] list, I didn’t want to go out and spend a lot of cap dollars chasing what I thought was a very competitive point-guard market,’’ Jackson said.

Hence the trade for Rose, in which Jackson gave up starting center Robin Lopez and two point guards — aging Jose Calderon and young Jerian Grant.

“We went to Plan B, which was Plan A in my head,’’ Jackson said.

Mills said he believes another losing/rebuilding season could hurt Porzingis’ growth.

“It was real important for KP to develop as a basketball player to put him in a culture of winning basketball games and he’s around other good players,’’ Mills said.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/09/phil-jackson-hints-at-playoffs-but-admits-glaring-knicks-hitch/
Again, Mills and Jax are saying something and doing it. Not sure why anyone would suggest that the team is taking a different approach then the one they have talked about and put into place with their acquisitions and coaching hire.

i never questioned the approach. I simply said i feel melo and KP are our biggest threats. I think noah,rose,courtney,and jennings make a good supporting cast barring any injuries

I think 7th was the one questioning it.

Yep......

"We just spent 20 million dollars on a washed up player so lets make him part of our "big 3." by telling rose "it's your team because you a re the lead guard" you are actually hindering kp6's growth."

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah.... no. so this moron says lets build the team around rose and melo. ha ha.

garbage article with a douchebag point of view. lets hope the knicks never come close to this scenario. just horrible analysis.

next.

Totally agree with this.

Bunk ass article. In no universe should Rose nor Melo be the primary option with a God in your presence...

You guys realize that it's only logical to talk about Rose and Melo as the lead of the offensive attack? This isn't to suggest that KP won't be a primary target as well. That's why they call it a Big 3. All 3 players will be the likely leaders of this team's offense.

I simply can't fathom why KNICKS FANS would be so annoyed at such a logical point made in this article. It's absurd not to recognize that Rose and Melo will be expected to carry a large portion of the load and that they would look to make things easier on KP and let him build up his game naturally rather than forcing it. The more KP shows he can handle the more he'll get to do. As the 3rd option KP will not be place at any disadvantage. If his game develops faster and he can handle more then fine.

No way in hell KP is the third option. Rose isnt the same player anymore, i think he can still help us but he isnt the player he once was. Im fine if melo gets some more touches but KP should be looked at as our main weapon too

You seem to also be missing the main point. There is simply no need to FORCE things with KP. If he develops during the course of the season into a primary option along the lines of a Dirk, then nothing is going to stop the Knicks from featuring him that way. However, that has yet to be proven. He's not starting the season off with that kind of pressure. There's no need to place that kind of pressure on him either. Let it happen naturally!!! Rose and Melo are vets and already used to that kind of pressure so let them take it and allow KP to find his game without that pressure.

im not missing the point at all. I know you are a very optimistic person but i think you may be expecting too much from Rose at this point. Melo and KP should be the big guns in the offense

My optimism has NOTHING to do with my main point which is that Rose and Melo as vets with proven histories of being lead players should continue that role and let KP play off of them at least to start so that there's less pressure on KP. There is simply no reason to force things with KP. Let KP naturally take on what he's comfortable with. If he shows he is ready for more there would be no problem with letting him take it on, but no way you force it early.

I really have no idea what you ChuckBuck and dk7th are going on about when it comes to this Rose thing. Rose is not coming here to take a backseat. He's going to have a prominent role. He's the lead guard for goodness sakes. While Rose had a rough start due to the Orbital Surgery, he did start to get his game going and I suspect he's gonna come into next season raring to go in a contract year.

Melo is going to also come into next season looking to lead along with Noah and Rose. This nonsense about Rose and Melo not being up to it is crazy. The Knicks Big 3 is Rose, Melo and KP, PERIOD!!!

it's not forcing things! he's already shown he is ready for more, which translates to he's comfortable taking on more. he was a close second in rookie of the year and he ranked in the top 5 among power forwards last year. he wants the responsibility and the pressure and does not need to be coddled or brought along slowly. by doing so you are putting him behind the other two. he is a phenomenon but no-- "lets take it slow."

"we just spent 20 million dollars on a washed up player so lets make him part of our "big 3." by telling rose "it's your team because you a re the lead guard" you are actually hindering kp6's growth.

i am speaking about what we have seen while you are speaking about what we have yet to see.

Excellent Post. KP is clearly ready to take the next step without having to force it.

KP is already a primary scorer for this team but he doesn't come into the season with a history of being the #1 option which you guys are completely missing. Rose has been an MVP and leader of his team. Melo has won a scoring title and been the #1 option on his teams. KP as talented as he is, has yet to play an entire season as the primary scoring option, PERIOD!!!

Now if KP shows in camp that he's ready to take on that kind of role it will be evident to Hornacek and he can adjust things as necessary. However, there's no reason to push Rose aside as if he is just some scrub we brought in to only pass the ball. Let's not get carried away with the Rose criticisms. What we needed most was an uptempo and penetrating PG. This is something that Rose does very well to this very day. Rose will pass the ball to his fellow starters. It's simply not true that he won't pass the ball to them.

rose is a ****ty passer. if your passes don't make others better then your passes are empty calories and ****ty. and he is a ****ty defender, one of the absolute worst in the league.

being a ****ty passer and a ****ty defender has a demoralizing effect on teammates.

the only thing rose *may* be sufficient at is pushing the ball in transition.

outside of pushing the ball in transition, rose should be working on making good entry passes to melo, kp6, and noah (and hernangomez if he is as advertised) to initiate the half court sets. then be a cutter. subordinate his ego to his betters. play for others instead of himself. his usage should be well below the stagnation-inducing 32% he has been indulged with. his usage should be well below 25%. the modified triangle will be primarily an inside out offense, making rose's contributions less and minimizing his negatives. we're already in the hole with him as a defender as it is.

kp6 has already shown what he can do, and going into camp he need "show/prove" nothing. the plan should be from the first second to create an offense around melo and kp6.

you know who needs to show worthiness? you know he needs to adapt? rose does.

being a ****ty passer and a ****ty defender has a demoralizing effect on teammates.

I believe Melo fit that category as well.....and he was still regarded as a lead player. On top of that, melos passing and defense has improved as he aged. Is melo the only person in the world that's able to improve?

Rose will have the ball in his hands the most. Rose and melo will be our two man threat. KP will have two pads and two pens to take notes from melo on offense and Noah on defense. While becoming the put back king.....rim protector..... Outside shooter......and a good defender on pick and roles. This is the best way to develop KP. Its like cooking a roast.....the end product is what's important..... Even is your kids smell how good it will taste, the roast is still bloody inside.

The other way is to trade melo, and don't add rose......while we watch KP lose confidence and lose games during his entire rookie contract....getting double teammed and playing like **** for 82 games doesn't help his development. KP will be one of the best players in the NBA thanks to phils strategy to improve the players around him....and allow him to grow, instead of stunting his growth by having weak players around him.

Melo and Rose will take all the pressure off of KP during this important training and development 2nd year.. Just ask Dirk.....its not a race.......its a marathon.

i disagree with just about everything you have said. it's merely a variation on nixluva's theme. so i will summarize: kp6 is not some aau/ncaa conveyor belt neophyte. he has been groomed all his life for now, right now-- and his desire is not bravado but strong-mindedness. moreover, this remains a triangle-based team with an inside out offense. just because rose is a knick for one, count'em one season does not dictate we yank the knicks and kp6 off their and his natural trajectories, respectively. please remember that we have noah, whose passing prowess will make rose's halfcourt playmaking an afterthought. melo has proven to be a willing passer and playmaker for 25 awesome games last year. that's two frontcourt players who can do the playmaking. all rose has to do is push the ball to create transition offense where possible, and when not possible-- which will be the majority of the time-- make good entry passes into the elbow/post and then proceed to move without the ball, just like a typical triangle guard. your esteem for his drive and kick abilities is misguided. the less he handles the ball the better.

finally, rose is a low-character guy on a one-year contract and not a proven leader. your and nixluva's scenario is a recipe for underachievement if not outright disaster. no, rose is a one-year audition whose sole purpose is to defer and help build the future, which is kp6.

edit: almost forgot-- kp6 should be groomed to become a post and elbow passer and playmaker too. he has great court vision.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah.... no. so this moron says lets build the team around rose and melo. ha ha.

garbage article with a douchebag point of view. lets hope the knicks never come close to this scenario. just horrible analysis.

next.

Totally agree with this.

Bunk ass article. In no universe should Rose nor Melo be the primary option with a God in your presence...

You guys realize that it's only logical to talk about Rose and Melo as the lead of the offensive attack? This isn't to suggest that KP won't be a primary target as well. That's why they call it a Big 3. All 3 players will be the likely leaders of this team's offense.

I simply can't fathom why KNICKS FANS would be so annoyed at such a logical point made in this article. It's absurd not to recognize that Rose and Melo will be expected to carry a large portion of the load and that they would look to make things easier on KP and let him build up his game naturally rather than forcing it. The more KP shows he can handle the more he'll get to do. As the 3rd option KP will not be place at any disadvantage. If his game develops faster and he can handle more then fine.

No way in hell KP is the third option. Rose isnt the same player anymore, i think he can still help us but he isnt the player he once was. Im fine if melo gets some more touches but KP should be looked at as our main weapon too

You seem to also be missing the main point. There is simply no need to FORCE things with KP. If he develops during the course of the season into a primary option along the lines of a Dirk, then nothing is going to stop the Knicks from featuring him that way. However, that has yet to be proven. He's not starting the season off with that kind of pressure. There's no need to place that kind of pressure on him either. Let it happen naturally!!! Rose and Melo are vets and already used to that kind of pressure so let them take it and allow KP to find his game without that pressure.

im not missing the point at all. I know you are a very optimistic person but i think you may be expecting too much from Rose at this point. Melo and KP should be the big guns in the offense

My optimism has NOTHING to do with my main point which is that Rose and Melo as vets with proven histories of being lead players should continue that role and let KP play off of them at least to start so that there's less pressure on KP. There is simply no reason to force things with KP. Let KP naturally take on what he's comfortable with. If he shows he is ready for more there would be no problem with letting him take it on, but no way you force it early.

I really have no idea what you ChuckBuck and dk7th are going on about when it comes to this Rose thing. Rose is not coming here to take a backseat. He's going to have a prominent role. He's the lead guard for goodness sakes. While Rose had a rough start due to the Orbital Surgery, he did start to get his game going and I suspect he's gonna come into next season raring to go in a contract year.

Melo is going to also come into next season looking to lead along with Noah and Rose. This nonsense about Rose and Melo not being up to it is crazy. The Knicks Big 3 is Rose, Melo and KP, PERIOD!!!

it's not forcing things! he's already shown he is ready for more, which translates to he's comfortable taking on more. he was a close second in rookie of the year and he ranked in the top 5 among power forwards last year. he wants the responsibility and the pressure and does not need to be coddled or brought along slowly. by doing so you are putting him behind the other two. he is a phenomenon but no-- "lets take it slow."

"we just spent 20 million dollars on a washed up player so lets make him part of our "big 3." by telling rose "it's your team because you a re the lead guard" you are actually hindering kp6's growth.

i am speaking about what we have seen while you are speaking about what we have yet to see.

Excellent Post. KP is clearly ready to take the next step without having to force it.

KP is already a primary scorer for this team but he doesn't come into the season with a history of being the #1 option which you guys are completely missing. Rose has been an MVP and leader of his team. Melo has won a scoring title and been the #1 option on his teams. KP as talented as he is, has yet to play an entire season as the primary scoring option, PERIOD!!!

Now if KP shows in camp that he's ready to take on that kind of role it will be evident to Hornacek and he can adjust things as necessary. However, there's no reason to push Rose aside as if he is just some scrub we brought in to only pass the ball. Let's not get carried away with the Rose criticisms. What we needed most was an uptempo and penetrating PG. This is something that Rose does very well to this very day. Rose will pass the ball to his fellow starters. It's simply not true that he won't pass the ball to them.

rose is a ****ty passer. if your passes don't make others better then your passes are empty calories and ****ty. and he is a ****ty defender, one of the absolute worst in the league.

being a ****ty passer and a ****ty defender has a demoralizing effect on teammates.

the only thing rose *may* be sufficient at is pushing the ball in transition.

outside of pushing the ball in transition, rose should be working on making good entry passes to melo, kp6, and noah (and hernangomez if he is as advertised) to initiate the half court sets. then be a cutter. subordinate his ego to his betters. play for others instead of himself. his usage should be well below the stagnation-inducing 32% he has been indulged with. his usage should be well below 25%. the modified triangle will be primarily an inside out offense, making rose's contributions less and minimizing his negatives. we're already in the hole with him as a defender as it is.

kp6 has already shown what he can do, and going into camp he need "show/prove" nothing. the plan should be from the first second to create an offense around melo and kp6.

you know who needs to show worthiness? you know he needs to adapt? rose does.

being a ****ty passer and a ****ty defender has a demoralizing effect on teammates.

I believe Melo fit that category as well.....and he was still regarded as a lead player. On top of that, melos passing and defense has improved as he aged. Is melo the only person in the world that's able to improve?

Rose will have the ball in his hands the most. Rose and melo will be our two man threat. KP will have two pads and two pens to take notes from melo on offense and Noah on defense. While becoming the put back king.....rim protector..... Outside shooter......and a good defender on pick and roles. This is the best way to develop KP. Its like cooking a roast.....the end product is what's important..... Even is your kids smell how good it will taste, the roast is still bloody inside.

The other way is to trade melo, and don't add rose......while we watch KP lose confidence and lose games during his entire rookie contract....getting double teammed and playing like **** for 82 games doesn't help his development. KP will be one of the best players in the NBA thanks to phils strategy to improve the players around him....and allow him to grow, instead of stunting his growth by having weak players around him.

Melo and Rose will take all the pressure off of KP during this important training and development 2nd year.. Just ask Dirk.....its not a race.......its a marathon.

i disagree with just about everything you have said. it's merely a variation on nixluva's theme. so i will summarize: kp6 is not some aau/ncaa conveyor belt neophyte. he has been groomed all his life for now, right now-- and his desire is not bravado but strong-mindedness. moreover, this remains a triangle-based team with an inside out offense. just because rose is a knick for one, count'em one season does not dictate we yank the knicks and kp6 off their and his natural trajectories, respectively. please remember that we have noah, whose passing prowess will make rose's halfcourt playmaking an afterthought. melo has proven to be a willing passer and playmaker for 25 awesome games last year. that's two frontcourt players who can do the playmaking. all rose has to do is push the ball to create transition offense where possible, and when not possible-- which will be the majority of the time-- make good entry passes into the elbow/post and then proceed to move without the ball, just like a typical triangle guard. your esteem for his drive and kick abilities is misguided. the less he handles the ball the better.

finally, rose is a low-character guy on a one-year contract and not a proven leader. your and nixluva's scenario is a recipe for underachievement if not outright disaster. no, rose is a one-year audition whose sole purpose is to defer and help build the future, which is kp6.

edit: almost forgot-- kp6 should be groomed to become a post and elbow passer and playmaker too. he has great court vision.

You talk like someone that has never seen a single game Rose has played!!! You think the Knicks should just waste Rose's strengths as a penetrator to play him like he's Jose??? What kind of dumbass plan is that?

KP's game isn't designed to carry the action on offense like that. You let him play off the action Rose creates. Sure KP will get some post ups and a nice mix of PnR and Catch and Shoot looks. If you really think Rose and Melo aren't going to carry a lot of the action you're F'n lost. Why even bring in Rose then? That's not the plan. Rose, Melo and KP will share the load and play off each other. There will not be a diminishing of Rose's roll as you're suggesting.

ask yourself: if rose was on a longer contract would you be talking like this? be honest.

after answering, consider that rose has been cited in this very thread as having poor ballhandling and passing habits, namely that on his drives he invariably leaves his feet to pass the ball. watch the video again at 2:45-3:45, listening closely to what the narrator says.

rose needs to dial it back more than the narrator states, in my opinion. too many ill-advised shots, too much leaving his feet to pass, too much overdribbling and overhandling. he just can't be given the reins to the offense in the degree you insist he should and will.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

blkexec wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:yeah.... no. so this moron says lets build the team around rose and melo. ha ha.

garbage article with a douchebag point of view. lets hope the knicks never come close to this scenario. just horrible analysis.

next.

Totally agree with this.

Bunk ass article. In no universe should Rose nor Melo be the primary option with a God in your presence...

You guys realize that it's only logical to talk about Rose and Melo as the lead of the offensive attack? This isn't to suggest that KP won't be a primary target as well. That's why they call it a Big 3. All 3 players will be the likely leaders of this team's offense.

I simply can't fathom why KNICKS FANS would be so annoyed at such a logical point made in this article. It's absurd not to recognize that Rose and Melo will be expected to carry a large portion of the load and that they would look to make things easier on KP and let him build up his game naturally rather than forcing it. The more KP shows he can handle the more he'll get to do. As the 3rd option KP will not be place at any disadvantage. If his game develops faster and he can handle more then fine.

No way in hell KP is the third option. Rose isnt the same player anymore, i think he can still help us but he isnt the player he once was. Im fine if melo gets some more touches but KP should be looked at as our main weapon too

You seem to also be missing the main point. There is simply no need to FORCE things with KP. If he develops during the course of the season into a primary option along the lines of a Dirk, then nothing is going to stop the Knicks from featuring him that way. However, that has yet to be proven. He's not starting the season off with that kind of pressure. There's no need to place that kind of pressure on him either. Let it happen naturally!!! Rose and Melo are vets and already used to that kind of pressure so let them take it and allow KP to find his game without that pressure.

im not missing the point at all. I know you are a very optimistic person but i think you may be expecting too much from Rose at this point. Melo and KP should be the big guns in the offense

My optimism has NOTHING to do with my main point which is that Rose and Melo as vets with proven histories of being lead players should continue that role and let KP play off of them at least to start so that there's less pressure on KP. There is simply no reason to force things with KP. Let KP naturally take on what he's comfortable with. If he shows he is ready for more there would be no problem with letting him take it on, but no way you force it early.

I really have no idea what you ChuckBuck and dk7th are going on about when it comes to this Rose thing. Rose is not coming here to take a backseat. He's going to have a prominent role. He's the lead guard for goodness sakes. While Rose had a rough start due to the Orbital Surgery, he did start to get his game going and I suspect he's gonna come into next season raring to go in a contract year.

Melo is going to also come into next season looking to lead along with Noah and Rose. This nonsense about Rose and Melo not being up to it is crazy. The Knicks Big 3 is Rose, Melo and KP, PERIOD!!!

it's not forcing things! he's already shown he is ready for more, which translates to he's comfortable taking on more. he was a close second in rookie of the year and he ranked in the top 5 among power forwards last year. he wants the responsibility and the pressure and does not need to be coddled or brought along slowly. by doing so you are putting him behind the other two. he is a phenomenon but no-- "lets take it slow."

"we just spent 20 million dollars on a washed up player so lets make him part of our "big 3." by telling rose "it's your team because you a re the lead guard" you are actually hindering kp6's growth.

i am speaking about what we have seen while you are speaking about what we have yet to see.

Excellent Post. KP is clearly ready to take the next step without having to force it.

KP is already a primary scorer for this team but he doesn't come into the season with a history of being the #1 option which you guys are completely missing. Rose has been an MVP and leader of his team. Melo has won a scoring title and been the #1 option on his teams. KP as talented as he is, has yet to play an entire season as the primary scoring option, PERIOD!!!

Now if KP shows in camp that he's ready to take on that kind of role it will be evident to Hornacek and he can adjust things as necessary. However, there's no reason to push Rose aside as if he is just some scrub we brought in to only pass the ball. Let's not get carried away with the Rose criticisms. What we needed most was an uptempo and penetrating PG. This is something that Rose does very well to this very day. Rose will pass the ball to his fellow starters. It's simply not true that he won't pass the ball to them.

rose is a ****ty passer. if your passes don't make others better then your passes are empty calories and ****ty. and he is a ****ty defender, one of the absolute worst in the league.

being a ****ty passer and a ****ty defender has a demoralizing effect on teammates.

the only thing rose *may* be sufficient at is pushing the ball in transition.

outside of pushing the ball in transition, rose should be working on making good entry passes to melo, kp6, and noah (and hernangomez if he is as advertised) to initiate the half court sets. then be a cutter. subordinate his ego to his betters. play for others instead of himself. his usage should be well below the stagnation-inducing 32% he has been indulged with. his usage should be well below 25%. the modified triangle will be primarily an inside out offense, making rose's contributions less and minimizing his negatives. we're already in the hole with him as a defender as it is.

kp6 has already shown what he can do, and going into camp he need "show/prove" nothing. the plan should be from the first second to create an offense around melo and kp6.

you know who needs to show worthiness? you know he needs to adapt? rose does.

being a ****ty passer and a ****ty defender has a demoralizing effect on teammates.

I believe Melo fit that category as well.....and he was still regarded as a lead player. On top of that, melos passing and defense has improved as he aged. Is melo the only person in the world that's able to improve?

Rose will have the ball in his hands the most. Rose and melo will be our two man threat. KP will have two pads and two pens to take notes from melo on offense and Noah on defense. While becoming the put back king.....rim protector..... Outside shooter......and a good defender on pick and roles. This is the best way to develop KP. Its like cooking a roast.....the end product is what's important..... Even is your kids smell how good it will taste, the roast is still bloody inside.

The other way is to trade melo, and don't add rose......while we watch KP lose confidence and lose games during his entire rookie contract....getting double teammed and playing like **** for 82 games doesn't help his development. KP will be one of the best players in the NBA thanks to phils strategy to improve the players around him....and allow him to grow, instead of stunting his growth by having weak players around him.

Melo and Rose will take all the pressure off of KP during this important training and development 2nd year.. Just ask Dirk.....its not a race.......its a marathon.

i disagree with just about everything you have said. it's merely a variation on nixluva's theme. so i will summarize: kp6 is not some aau/ncaa conveyor belt neophyte. he has been groomed all his life for now, right now-- and his desire is not bravado but strong-mindedness. moreover, this remains a triangle-based team with an inside out offense. just because rose is a knick for one, count'em one season does not dictate we yank the knicks and kp6 off their and his natural trajectories, respectively. please remember that we have noah, whose passing prowess will make rose's halfcourt playmaking an afterthought. melo has proven to be a willing passer and playmaker for 25 awesome games last year. that's two frontcourt players who can do the playmaking. all rose has to do is push the ball to create transition offense where possible, and when not possible-- which will be the majority of the time-- make good entry passes into the elbow/post and then proceed to move without the ball, just like a typical triangle guard. your esteem for his drive and kick abilities is misguided. the less he handles the ball the better.

finally, rose is a low-character guy on a one-year contract and not a proven leader. your and nixluva's scenario is a recipe for underachievement if not outright disaster. no, rose is a one-year audition whose sole purpose is to defer and help build the future, which is kp6.

edit: almost forgot-- kp6 should be groomed to become a post and elbow passer and playmaker too. he has great court vision.

You talk like someone that has never seen a single game Rose has played!!! You think the Knicks should just waste Rose's strengths as a penetrator to play him like he's Jose??? What kind of dumbass plan is that?

KP's game isn't designed to carry the action on offense like that. You let him play off the action Rose creates. Sure KP will get some post ups and a nice mix of PnR and Catch and Shoot looks. If you really think Rose and Melo aren't going to carry a lot of the action you're F'n lost. Why even bring in Rose then? That's not the plan. Rose, Melo and KP will share the load and play off each other. There will not be a diminishing of Rose's roll as you're suggesting.

ask yourself: if rose was on a longer contract would you be talking like this? be honest.

after answering, consider that rose has been cited in this very thread as having poor ballhandling and passing habits, namely that on his drives he invariably leaves his feet to pass the ball. watch the video again at 2:45-3:45, listening closely to what the narrator says.

rose needs to dial it back more than the narrator states, in my opinion. too many ill-advised shots, too much leaving his feet to pass, too much overdribbling and overhandling. he just can't be given the reins to the offense in the degree you insist he should and will.

You're reading too much into what Coach Nick pointed out in the video. Rose was the best player on a 62 win team. He is not some scrub that you need to hide. He's not CP3 either but he's capable of handling a lead role for this team.

The over dribbling is not going to be a problem on this team with the talent we have. If you can't see how having Melo, KP and Lee on the floor around him will open things up WAY more than what he saw in Chicago I can't help you. This group is going to create VASTLY greater spacing. If the defense tries to stop Rose's drives it will leave someone lethal open every time. The only somewhat safe help man will be Noah's man. Anyone else will be taking a big risk with a deadly shooter being left open. So Rose penetration is the way to play it.

his mvp season was six years ago. that's one acl tear, a meniscus tear, a second meniscus tear, and a fractured orbital bone ago. he also will be in court unless he decides to settle, following a very sordid scandal that should make fans like you question his character, let alone leadership, of which he has none.

you expect him to rely on athleticism that simply isn't there any longer, that same athleticism that brought about injuries.

the knicks brought rose in for a one-year audition yet you want to convince yourself and others that he is a significant part of a future mix beyond this season, and working from that presumption are trying to make a case for this season, which is fololishness-- i have asked the question twice and i'll ask it a third time: if rose was on a longer contract would you be talking like this? be honest.

Also dk7th, Rose is still PLENTY athletic enough for the position. Just cuz he isn't dunking as much as in the past doesn't mean he's not athletic anymore. Rose is gonna be doing what JH ALWAYS has his guards do. The same things Dragic, Bledsoe, Isaiah or Knight did. Why would we expect anything different?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't know why you think anyone is suggesting Rose will have to "carry" the Knicks. My point in saying the Knicks big 3 is Rose, Melo and KP infers that they all carry part of the load so no single player is overburdened!

Also dk7th, Rose is still PLENTY athletic enough for the position. Just cuz he isn't dunking as much as in the past doesn't mean he's not athletic anymore. Rose is gonna be doing what JH ALWAYS has his guards do. The same things Dragic, Bledsoe, Isaiah or Knight did. Why would we expect anything different?

Now you are kinda backtracking a bit. Yesterday you were saying melo and rose will carry most of the load

Melo and rose will control the offense.....KP will feed off of the lack of attention or mis matches down low. Everybody is saying the same things......not sure why everybody is disagreeing.

I'm the biggest KP fan in here... . said it before the draft that he has superstar potential. He killed it in his first year.. He will do the same and more in his second year. This is a triangle/horny offensive system. But that's not going to stop rose or jennings from pushing the rock. Looking for KP on lobs or melo in the corner......Rose will control the fast pace action all season. Melo will take the most shots. Both players will dominate transition and half court sets. KP is not durrant. He will have to depend on triangle half court sets and rose passing him the ball on fast breaks. What's so hard for everybody to understand.....or agree on. I love the fan enthusiasm before the season begins. But everybody is really saying the same things....

Also Rose dominated the bulls offense because he was stuck between understanding how to play like a normal guard and not rely on dunks and layups, while staying injury free.... Plus he never played with a player like melo, who he respects and will defer to......and he never played with someone like KP. My guess is rose should average the most assist in his career......proving to be a real PG and not just a scoring guard. But like melo, if he has the rock near the end of the shot clock, he's putting it up over 3 people. KP doesn't have that type of tunnel vision.....he comes from a culture of team ball.. Melo and Rose are gunners......regardless if anybody thinks it should be different, they are still gunners.....and KP is a system player (for now). That will / should change once melo steps down. Gunners usually dominate the offense, espically at the PG spot since they have the ball in their hands the most.

blkexec wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't know why you think anyone is suggesting Rose will have to "carry" the Knicks. My point in saying the Knicks big 3 is Rose, Melo and KP infers that they all carry part of the load so no single player is overburdened!

Also dk7th, Rose is still PLENTY athletic enough for the position. Just cuz he isn't dunking as much as in the past doesn't mean he's not athletic anymore. Rose is gonna be doing what JH ALWAYS has his guards do. The same things Dragic, Bledsoe, Isaiah or Knight did. Why would we expect anything different?

Now you are kinda backtracking a bit. Yesterday you were saying melo and rose will carry most of the load

Melo and rose will control the offense.....KP will feed off of the lack of attention or mis matches down low. Everybody is saying the same things......not sure why everybody is disagreeing.

I'm the biggest KP fan in here... . said it before the draft that he has superstar potential. He killed it in his first year.. He will do the same and more in his second year. This is a triangle/horny offensive system. But that's not going to stop rose or jennings from pushing the rock. Looking for KP on lobs or melo in the corner......Rose will control the fast pace action all season. Melo will take the most shots. Both players will dominate transition and half court sets. KP is not durrant. He will have to depend on triangle half court sets and rose passing him the ball on fast breaks. What's so hard for everybody to understand.....or agree on. I love the fan enthusiasm before the season begins. But everybody is really saying the same things....

Also Rose dominated the bulls offense because he was stuck between understanding how to play like a normal guard and not rely on dunks and layups, while staying injury free.... Plus he never played with a player like melo, who he respects and will defer to......and he never played with someone like KP. My guess is rose should average the most assist in his career......proving to be a real PG and not just a scoring guard. But like melo, if he has the rock near the end of the shot clock, he's putting it up over 3 people. KP doesn't have that type of tunnel vision.....he comes from a culture of team ball.. Melo and Rose are gunners......regardless if anybody thinks it should be different, they are still gunners.....and KP is a system player (for now). That will / should change once melo steps down. Gunners usually dominate the offense, espically at the PG spot since they have the ball in their hands the most.

This pretty much all I've been saying. Plus as you pointed out Rose will get more assists with this group. I don't know how anyone could not understand what it means when I say Rose, Melo and KP are our big 3!!! Does that not indicate they will all have big roles next season? Now how they play together will follow normal and logical paths according to their skills as you said.

We all know Rose is as good as gone after this season.