mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

context is good... like when guys are saying the team isn't going to be good or offer their opinion its important to remember the same guy things Jose Calderon is going to produce more wins for your team than Derrick Rose.

Everyone has their opinion.

45?

So if the Knicks got worse at PG and C, a very slight improvement at SG how do you have them going from a .390 team to a .548 team?

Lance Thomas is healthy that's why!

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

I think he is referring to his entire tenure in Chicago because he asked about teams. He also asked about guys on the team when he was healthy. I think that would be 08-10 teams and then to a lesser extent last year.

Sorry I got to this late, but yes I was talking about early rose before the injuries derailed his career. I wouldn't count last year because he was still plagued by his eye injury/surgery recovery last year. I also would not call old Gasol an excellent offensive player either. Butler is pretty good, but in my original post I was really more talking about his prime years where Carlos Boozer was for some time considered his number #2 option (which is sad).

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

Don't sleep on Justin Holliday

Gasol was definitely a better offensive player than KP, Butler is excellent, Mirotic is good, Gibson is good. Noah was pretty bad but he is damn good now that he is motivated to be a knicks :-)

I'm not talking about Rose's time playing with Pau Gasol, I should have made that more clear in my post. I'm talking about his years before the 2012 playoff acl tear. Also Gasol had a very good all-around performance last season, but I'm very confident KP will surpass Gasol's 16.5 points per game this upcoming season.

yellowboy90 wrote:I think people are still overlooking Rose problems on defense. That is what could make him a worse player than Jose if he repeats the offensive production he has been over the last few years. Rose might have gotten better offensively a bit last year as the year went on but he also declined significantly defensively in the second half of the year. He was like James Harden without the offense but even worse defensively.

I am hoping just hoping Rose can be somewhere between 54 win Felton and last years Reggie Jackson offensively. Those two pgs at least contributed on defense though. IF Thibs and Noah couldn't keep Rose accountable who will?

The D is a concern but I think a lot of that is who was behind Rose. Noah wasn't there much of the year as he came off the bench and then only played 29 games.

Here in NY KP, Noah and Lee will help a LOT. It does make a difference who you play with and how connected the team is on D. Then we have Lance, Holliday and maybe NDour off the bench who can defend as well. I think the support behind Rose should be strong.

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think people are still overlooking Rose problems on defense. That is what could make him a worse player than Jose if he repeats the offensive production he has been over the last few years. Rose might have gotten better offensively a bit last year as the year went on but he also declined significantly defensively in the second half of the year. He was like James Harden without the offense but even worse defensively.

I am hoping just hoping Rose can be somewhere between 54 win Felton and last years Reggie Jackson offensively. Those two pgs at least contributed on defense though. IF Thibs and Noah couldn't keep Rose accountable who will?

The D is a concern but I think a lot of that is who was behind Rose. Noah wasn't there much of the year as he came off the bench and then only played 29 games.

Here in NY KP, Noah and Lee will help a LOT. It does make a difference who you play with and how connected the team is on D. Then we have Lance, Holliday and maybe NDour off the bench who can defend as well. I think the support behind Rose should be strong.

Gasol, Gibson, and Butler should be enough help. The who he played with excuse doesn't really work on D especially when his defense has been poor his whole career. The dude had good young defenders around him and still came up short.

He will need to take responsibility and put in the effort on defense and let his teammates handle the offensive load. If he can take 12-14 good shots with some slightly below average to average defense the Knicks would probably be in great shape. He needs to help contribute to Lee becoming a high volume 3 pt shooter this year

Malcolm wrote:Just show me what indications there are that Rose has ever had any
of the personality characteristics that make for a good Triangle player.

It's not just ONE characteristic -- Jordan, Odom, Kerr, Pippen, Rodman,
O'Neal, and Artest didn't have the same personality.

But they all had SOMETHING that made it possible for them to attune
themselves to what the Triangle is all about.

What is that for Rose (?) I don't see it . . .

nixluva wrote:I think there's really no point in stressing the Triangle from the way that it was always run. JH is going to be adding his own flavor to the offense and it will not be the same. All that matters is that the principles are the same. The focus of the offense will be different. Rose's game will be more in tune with Hornacek's Early Offensive approach. Rather than the Tex Winter 3 Pass approach. JH gets right into it before the defense is ready. That's why Rose makes so much sense. JH has already said that Melo has to get in shape to run. That goes for everyone. JH joked about 7 Seconds Or Less saying he'd call his 8 Seconds Or Less. The point is the same.

Well heck, why would I object to them scoring in 8 seconds or less (?)

But what if . . . they don't score in 8 seconds or less (?)

That's likely to happen once in a while, you know.

So what's the evidence that Rose will be any good in the Triangle in
the other 16 seconds (?)

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think there's really no point in stressing the Triangle from the way that it was always run. JH is going to be adding his own flavor to the offense and it will not be the same. All that matters is that the principles are the same. The focus of the offense will be different. Rose's game will be more in tune with Hornacek's Early Offensive approach. Rather than the Tex Winter 3 Pass approach. JH gets right into it before the defense is ready. That's why Rose makes so much sense. JH has already said that Melo has to get in shape to run. That goes for everyone. JH joked about 7 Seconds Or Less saying he'd call his 8 Seconds Or Less. The point is the same.

They plan to score in 8 seconds or less (?)

Well heck, why would I object to them scoring in 8 seconds or less (?)

But what if . . . they don't score in 8 seconds or less (?)

That's likely to happen once in a while, you know.

So what's the evidence that Rose will be any good in the Triangle in
the other 16 seconds (?)

Skip to the 3:42 mark and the 5:20 Mark and you will see Rose giving the ball up and cutting in the Triangle simply to create space. How the Bulls ran the Triangle was much more about the Pinch Post passer and Cutters. As i've said many times what you choose to feature out of the Triangle is totally up to the coach.