nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:37 wins and out of the playoffs.

What makes you think this team won't have a winning record and make the playoffs? Heck they would've won more than 37 if Melo, LT and KP had stayed healthy, IMO. Possibly even more with a very good coach and no coaching change. This current roster is far better and most surely Hornacek has a better plan for the team. Playing uptempo, with more spacing and an emphasis on more efficient scoring should really help these players. I just don't see only 5 more wins from last years team. I'm curious what has you thinking 5 more wins.

Afflao to Lee is only a slight upgrade. Lopez to Noah is probably a wash at best and if Noah plays this year like he did last year prior to getting hurt it's actually a downgrade. Derrick Rose is terrible at basketball. Whatever improvements we see from Porzingis will be mitigated by the fact that he'll be 3rd on the team in touches behind a declining Melo and a terrible Rose. Hell, depending on how much Jennings plays Porzingis might be 4th in touches.

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:37 wins and out of the playoffs.

What makes you think this team won't have a winning record and make the playoffs? Heck they would've won more than 37 if Melo, LT and KP had stayed healthy, IMO. Possibly even more with a very good coach and no coaching change. This current roster is far better and most surely Hornacek has a better plan for the team. Playing uptempo, with more spacing and an emphasis on more efficient scoring should really help these players. I just don't see only 5 more wins from last years team. I'm curious what has you thinking 5 more wins.

Afflao to Lee is only a slight upgrade. Lopez to Noah is probably a wash at best and if Noah plays this year like he did last year prior to getting hurt it's actually a downgrade. Derrick Rose is terrible at basketball. Whatever improvements we see from Porzingis will be mitigated by the fact that he'll be 3rd on the team in touches behind a declining Melo and a terrible Rose. Hell, depending on how much Jennings plays Porzingis might be 4th in touches.

Lopez in a vacuum is a better player right now. What Noah brings is the right mental approach to the game for this team. He will lead the way not only in action but in being a vocal leader as well. The one area where I think Noah is hands down gonna make a huge improvement is in ball movement!!! Lopez was horrible for ball movement and playing at a high speed. With guys like AA and Noah combined with Melo you really have too many guys that hold on to the ball and slow the offense down. I really like Lopez but I can see how Noah can be a better fit for how Hornacek wants to play. More uptempo with quick hitting plays. Noah can play that way much better than Lopez.

I think Rose will have a very good impact on this team. Again for the way Hornacek wants to play, Rose is a very good fit. Pushing the pace and looking for early offense is a strength of Rose. There's just a totally different demeanor this team will have with Rose pushing the team. Much more aggressive and fear inspiring with him coming down at speed and knifing thru the defense. That is going to help everyone on the team.

KP is not going to be marginalized. He's simply too good and too important for that to happen. He's gonna log good minutes and they'll give him time on the floor where he can be a primary option. Most likely with Jennings when they sit Melo and Rose. Hornacek has talked about mixing his starters with the bench so that he always has one of his top players on the floor. We won't see anymore platoon style subs where we have nothing but scrubs on the floor.

I can understand having doubts about this team but from what I see this is a team that should have a boatload of ability. It will be very hard for teams to stop all of the Knicks weapons. Hornacek is gonna have this team playing very aggressively, which is gonna put tons of pressure on teams at all times. Uptempo, Spread Offense, PnR, Off Ball Movement... I don't see how this team can end up with only 37 wins playing like that, with this kind of talent.

I think we are clearly below Boston Toronto Cleveland Indiana at the minimum. So the goal would be slot 5-8 and any upside from there would be great. But there is NO doubt about the possibility of the downside of the team which cannot be excused by injury.

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:37 wins and out of the playoffs.

What makes you think this team won't have a winning record and make the playoffs? Heck they would've won more than 37 if Melo, LT and KP had stayed healthy, IMO. Possibly even more with a very good coach and no coaching change. This current roster is far better and most surely Hornacek has a better plan for the team. Playing uptempo, with more spacing and an emphasis on more efficient scoring should really help these players. I just don't see only 5 more wins from last years team. I'm curious what has you thinking 5 more wins.

I will agree that Rose is not a very good at making his teammates better. He plays reckless and often had his teammates standing around while he's contorting his body towards the basket. Still... even if you think Rose is terrible at basketball, he's still 4 times better than Jose Calderon. Rose can get to the rim at any time. He now can hit the 3 with some respectability.

You can say Rolo and Noah is a wash... Rolo is more of a post up/pick and roll big that can dominate one night and totally blend in the next. Noah is an opportunistic type of player. He can impact the game no matter where he is with his pass and drive ability.

Lee is a face up player. Affalo is a post up player. That's basically it. For how we want to play, Lee is going to be easy more effective for us. This upgrade alone gets more touches to other players namely Kristaps.

In this new style of play Kristaps and Melo are going to feast. You can't and shouldn't double team our guys. It will be a pick your poison because if we can get Melo and KP to pass the ball, Noah and Lee will be ready to move that ball likely back to one of them.

The bench is filled with active players with international experience. It's not all about Jennings.

I'd say 10 games should be a given.... but the potential to really gel can take them to a 15, possibly 20 game improvement.

If the injury bug overwhelms us, we got a high draft pick in a stacked draft.

EnySpree wrote:I just want to speak on the "Rose is terrible at basketball" comment by Vcoug....

I will agree that Rose is not a very good at making his teammates better. He plays reckless and often had his teammates standing around while he's contorting his body towards the basket. Still... even if you think Rose is terrible at basketball, he's still 4 times better than Jose Calderon. Rose can get to the rim at any time. He now can hit the 3 with some respectability.

You can say Rolo and Noah is a wash... Rolo is more of a post up/pick and roll big that can dominate one night and totally blend in the next. Noah is an opportunistic type of player. He can impact the game no matter where he is with his pass and drive ability.

Lee is a face up player. Affalo is a post up player. That's basically it. For how we want to play, Lee is going to be easy more effective for us. This upgrade alone gets more touches to other players namely Kristaps.

In this new style of play Kristaps and Melo are going to feast. You can't and shouldn't double team our guys. It will be a pick your poison because if we can get Melo and KP to pass the ball, Noah and Lee will be ready to move that ball likely back to one of them.

The bench is filled with active players with international experience. It's not all about Jennings.

I'd say 10 games should be a given.... but the potential to really gel can take them to a 15, possibly 20 game improvement.

If the injury bug overwhelms us, we got a high draft pick in a stacked draft.

Who cares if Rose can get to the rim if he can't finish at the rim? According to NBA.com he shot 48% within 5 feet of the basket and league average last year was 58%. And for all the talk about breaking down defenses to get other better shots Rose has never been a CP3/Kidd/Stockton type. He's a shoot-first PG who had his career-worst AST% last season. And he shot 29% from 3 last year, don't know how that's respectable.

Noah, if healthy, is probably a better defender and rebounder than Lopez was but he couldn't hit a layup last season. He shot 41% within 5 feet of the basket, 39% on layups, and 25% on tip-ins. And this is prior to the shoulder injury which ended his season.

Afflalo had a slightly higher USG% than Lee last year but they had an almost identical AST%. I don't see how this signing creates more touches for Porzingis. Lee's basically a league average player who can't stick with any one team; if this were the NFL we'd be calling him a JAG (Just A Guy). And the people calling this a great signing were the same ones arguing with me that the Afflalo signing last Summer was awesome also.

You can't and shouldn't double team most of our team because there's no reason to. Rose, Noah, and Jennings can't shoot or finish at the rim and Lee is a JAG.

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I just want to speak on the "Rose is terrible at basketball" comment by Vcoug....

I will agree that Rose is not a very good at making his teammates better. He plays reckless and often had his teammates standing around while he's contorting his body towards the basket. Still... even if you think Rose is terrible at basketball, he's still 4 times better than Jose Calderon. Rose can get to the rim at any time. He now can hit the 3 with some respectability.

You can say Rolo and Noah is a wash... Rolo is more of a post up/pick and roll big that can dominate one night and totally blend in the next. Noah is an opportunistic type of player. He can impact the game no matter where he is with his pass and drive ability.

Lee is a face up player. Affalo is a post up player. That's basically it. For how we want to play, Lee is going to be easy more effective for us. This upgrade alone gets more touches to other players namely Kristaps.

In this new style of play Kristaps and Melo are going to feast. You can't and shouldn't double team our guys. It will be a pick your poison because if we can get Melo and KP to pass the ball, Noah and Lee will be ready to move that ball likely back to one of them.

The bench is filled with active players with international experience. It's not all about Jennings.

I'd say 10 games should be a given.... but the potential to really gel can take them to a 15, possibly 20 game improvement.

If the injury bug overwhelms us, we got a high draft pick in a stacked draft.

Who cares if Rose can get to the rim if he can't finish at the rim? According to NBA.com he shot 48% within 5 feet of the basket and league average last year was 58%. And for all the talk about breaking down defenses to get other better shots Rose has never been a CP3/Kidd/Stockton type. He's a shoot-first PG who had his career-worst AST% last season. And he shot 29% from 3 last year, don't know how that's respectable.

Noah, if healthy, is probably a better defender and rebounder than Lopez was but he couldn't hit a layup last season. He shot 41% within 5 feet of the basket, 39% on layups, and 25% on tip-ins. And this is prior to the shoulder injury which ended his season.

Afflalo had a slightly higher USG% than Lee last year but they had an almost identical AST%. I don't see how this signing creates more touches for Porzingis. Lee's basically a league average player who can't stick with any one team; if this were the NFL we'd be calling him a JAG (Just A Guy). And the people calling this a great signing were the same ones arguing with me that the Afflalo signing last Summer was awesome also.

You can't and shouldn't double team most of our team because there's no reason to. Rose, Noah, and Jennings can't shoot or finish at the rim and Lee is a JAG.

In 49 games without the mask, however, Rose averaged 17.3 points on 44.9 percent shooting from the field.

In 21 games played after the All-Star Break, he averaged 17.4 points on a slash line of .468/.375/.784.

IMO with the extra time Rose has had in order to prepare his body and work on his skills, this is a very good situation for the Knicks. Rose has a very good opportunity to play a better brand of ball next season.

I'm still trying to understand why it is that people think the Knicks aren't that talented. Exactly how are teams going to be able to focus on stopping Rose, Melo and KP without leaving Lee or Noah open at some point? That's going to be the trick. As soon as you space the floor and put Rose in a 2 man game the advantage is all Knicks at that point. The defense will be put in a tough situation and most certainly will have to help off of Melo, KP or Lee. I'm not seeing a team that is going to be easy to defend at any point. Especially with Hornacek's aggressive style and approach to the game.

nixluva wrote:At the start of last season Rose was not at his best and struggling with the Mask after the Orbital Surgery. What is clear is that he did progress after time and removal of the Mask.

In 49 games without the mask, however, Rose averaged 17.3 points on 44.9 percent shooting from the field.

In 21 games played after the All-Star Break, he averaged 17.4 points on a slash line of .468/.375/.784.

http://dailyknicks.com/2016/07/17/knicks-derrick-roses-trainer-isnt-worried-about-his-health/

IMO with the extra time Rose has had in order to prepare his body and work on his skills, this is a very good situation for the Knicks. Rose has a very good opportunity to play a better brand of ball next season.

I'm still trying to understand why it is that people think the Knicks aren't that talented. Exactly how are teams going to be able to focus on stopping Rose, Melo and KP without leaving Lee or Noah open at some point? That's going to be the trick. As soon as you space the floor and put Rose in a 2 man game the advantage is all Knicks at that point. The defense will be put in a tough situation and most certainly will have to help off of Melo, KP or Lee. I'm not seeing a team that is going to be easy to defend at any point. Especially with Hornacek's aggressive style and approach to the game.

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I just want to speak on the "Rose is terrible at basketball" comment by Vcoug....

I will agree that Rose is not a very good at making his teammates better. He plays reckless and often had his teammates standing around while he's contorting his body towards the basket. Still... even if you think Rose is terrible at basketball, he's still 4 times better than Jose Calderon. Rose can get to the rim at any time. He now can hit the 3 with some respectability.

You can say Rolo and Noah is a wash... Rolo is more of a post up/pick and roll big that can dominate one night and totally blend in the next. Noah is an opportunistic type of player. He can impact the game no matter where he is with his pass and drive ability.

Lee is a face up player. Affalo is a post up player. That's basically it. For how we want to play, Lee is going to be easy more effective for us. This upgrade alone gets more touches to other players namely Kristaps.

In this new style of play Kristaps and Melo are going to feast. You can't and shouldn't double team our guys. It will be a pick your poison because if we can get Melo and KP to pass the ball, Noah and Lee will be ready to move that ball likely back to one of them.

The bench is filled with active players with international experience. It's not all about Jennings.

I'd say 10 games should be a given.... but the potential to really gel can take them to a 15, possibly 20 game improvement.

If the injury bug overwhelms us, we got a high draft pick in a stacked draft.

Who cares if Rose can get to the rim if he can't finish at the rim? According to NBA.com he shot 48% within 5 feet of the basket and league average last year was 58%. And for all the talk about breaking down defenses to get other better shots Rose has never been a CP3/Kidd/Stockton type. He's a shoot-first PG who had his career-worst AST% last season. And he shot 29% from 3 last year, don't know how that's respectable.

Noah, if healthy, is probably a better defender and rebounder than Lopez was but he couldn't hit a layup last season. He shot 41% within 5 feet of the basket, 39% on layups, and 25% on tip-ins. And this is prior to the shoulder injury which ended his season.

Afflalo had a slightly higher USG% than Lee last year but they had an almost identical AST%. I don't see how this signing creates more touches for Porzingis. Lee's basically a league average player who can't stick with any one team; if this were the NFL we'd be calling him a JAG (Just A Guy). And the people calling this a great signing were the same ones arguing with me that the Afflalo signing last Summer was awesome also.

You can't and shouldn't double team most of our team because there's no reason to. Rose, Noah, and Jennings can't shoot or finish at the rim and Lee is a JAG.

Interesting. We cited slightly different stats. From 0 to 3 feet, he was at 51% (and I'm guessing higher in the 2nd half of the season). He probably was bad from 4 to 5 feet, which brought down the figure you cited to 48%. He's going to have to be healthy and focus on shots from within 3 feet next year.

Yeah, I used NBA.com and I'm guessing you used basketball-reference. I actually prefer b-ref because you can get a little more granular but you can get the league average stuff on NBA.com which is why I used it.

The other major problem with Rose is that he's afraid of contact now. He's really never been great at finishing at the rim, even in his best years he was only around league average. But now, his FTr has cratered. He used to be around .300 for the first few years of his career and last year he was at .171