CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The funniest thing about this argument is if the Knicks do end up losing.... everyone will be calling for Phil to get fired and calling him an idiot and inexperienced.... yet you guys want the Knicks to build "organically"... how does one do that without losing at a ridiculous rate?

We have all our picks going forward and alot of young players in the organization.... what more do you want? We are building from within and signing guys to play now.... what is there to complain about? This is the best situation we've been in for 15 years

who are the alot of young players in the organization? KP and ?.

Cleanthony Early - released, but invited to summer league. There is clearly not a commitment on our part to keep him, and I applaud the move. I don't see him playing for an NBA team.

Galloway?

Justin Holiday?

KOQ
Seraphin? Is he even back?

Who is this youth I'm missing?

Rose is younger than Lopez. Calderon is 35? Holiday is 27 and Jerian Grant will be 24 at the start of the season. The Knicks gave up the youngest and the oldest player in the trade. Also, looking at youth the Knicks have O'Quinn, Willy, Baker, Labeyrie and Plumlee that you left off of your list. They added a second round pick in the deal. I liked Grant but I am not sure that he is anything special.

How can you qualify "young guys" on the Knicks that don't even have contracts? Willy, Baker, Labeyrie and Plumlee are guys that we don't even know could hack it in the league!

franco12 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The funniest thing about this argument is if the Knicks do end up losing.... everyone will be calling for Phil to get fired and calling him an idiot and inexperienced.... yet you guys want the Knicks to build "organically"... how does one do that without losing at a ridiculous rate?

We have all our picks going forward and alot of young players in the organization.... what more do you want? We are building from within and signing guys to play now.... what is there to complain about? This is the best situation we've been in for 15 years

who are the alot of young players in the organization? KP and ?.

Cleanthony Early - released, but invited to summer league. There is clearly not a commitment on our part to keep him, and I applaud the move. I don't see him playing for an NBA team.

Galloway?

Justin Holiday?

KOQ
Seraphin? Is he even back?

Who is this youth I'm missing?

Rose is younger than Lopez. Calderon is 35? Holiday is 27 and Jerian Grant will be 24 at the start of the season. The Knicks gave up the youngest and the oldest player in the trade. Also, looking at youth the Knicks have O'Quinn, Willy, Baker, Labeyrie and Plumlee that you left off of your list. They added a second round pick in the deal. I liked Grant but I am not sure that he is anything special.

My I forgot about all those young players because, I guess they were what, all second rounders or undrafted?

I like KOQ and hope Willy will contribute and turn into something.

But the others?

Plumlee so good he went undrafted.

Same with Baker.

Rose is younger than Lopez and Calderon, and he played exactly 73 minutes more than Calderon in 6 less games. And Lopez played 122 more minutes and played every game.

+1

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

No you can't.

The Knicks will certainly be expected to improve upon 2015-16 by a decent margin. No less than postseason will be the minimum expectation.

wargames wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

No you can't.

The Knicks will certainly be expected to improve upon 2015-16 by a decent margin. No less than postseason will be the minimum expectation.

Saying Phil is on par with his predecessors is giving his predecessors wayyyyyyyy to much credit. Even if this explodes in his face the Knicks have their pick this year, and Rose (who is the most injury prone) becomes an expiring in a very PG heavy FA and Draft. This is a big risk, but there is a level of foresight to this current lineup we haven't seen from the Knicks...... Ever.

wargames wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

No you can't.

The Knicks will certainly be expected to improve upon 2015-16 by a decent margin. No less than postseason will be the minimum expectation.

Saying Phil is on par with his predecessors is giving his predecessors wayyyyyyyy to much credit. Even if this explodes in his face the Knicks have their pick this year, and Rose (who is the most injury prone) becomes an expiring in a very PG heavy FA and Draft.

This is a big risk, but there is a level of foresight to this current lineup we haven't seen from the Knicks...... Ever.

Also he got guys who if healthy makes this team a lot better. The Lakers had more money and came away with nothing..... The 76'ers can't give their money away. The East got a lot tougher overall and I think the Knicks got tougher to match it.

+1 wargames this is totally on point. Not every Phil move has turned out as hoped but his thinking, vision and plan B contingencies have been intelligently conceived, broad minded and planned out. At this point he has put the Knicks in a position to become dramatically more competitive or, if struck by injury or failure of whatever sort, to sharply improve/alter the team next year through free agency, the draft and reasonably priced, movable assets.

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

This was Phil's team before these moves. Why are you talking as if you're a fan of some other team looking to assign blame??? You don't sound like someone who is interested in looking for how the team CAN be successful as much as how they can fail.

Yes there is a risk of injury. That isn't the same as a guarantee that things will go wrong. I'm not reading anything from you about how this could workout with the players in great shape going into next season. How do you think the players will function together and why?

djsunyc, the Knicks are NOT going to have to play their starters 35+ minutes a game! I mean come on man. At least try to be less biased. Phil has done this MANY times before and knows how to handle a team with older vets. Phil and JH will be very much aware of taking care of the players who need to watch their minutes.

I want the Knicks fans to demand a better product. That's the only way we'll get one.
You're right it was his team before this off-season. But each time you turn over the roster, it becomes more your team and less traceable to past GMs.

Welpee wrote:

wargames wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

No you can't.

The Knicks will certainly be expected to improve upon 2015-16 by a decent margin. No less than postseason will be the minimum expectation.

Saying Phil is on par with his predecessors is giving his predecessors wayyyyyyyy to much credit. Even if this explodes in his face the Knicks have their pick this year, and Rose (who is the most injury prone) becomes an expiring in a very PG heavy FA and Draft. This is a big risk, but there is a level of foresight to this current lineup we haven't seen from the Knicks...... Ever.

Yeah, and I don't think Phil has traded any first round picks since he arrived. In fact, he acquired one which is rare around here.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

This was Phil's team before these moves. Why are you talking as if you're a fan of some other team looking to assign blame??? You don't sound like someone who is interested in looking for how the team CAN be successful as much as how they can fail.

Yes there is a risk of injury. That isn't the same as a guarantee that things will go wrong. I'm not reading anything from you about how this could workout with the players in great shape going into next season. How do you think the players will function together and why?

djsunyc, the Knicks are NOT going to have to play their starters 35+ minutes a game! I mean come on man. At least try to be less biased. Phil has done this MANY times before and knows how to handle a team with older vets. Phil and JH will be very much aware of taking care of the players who need to watch their minutes.

while i am biased (and pretend not to be) the bottom line is results. fans constantly rationalize moves their teams make. but ultimately, if the team isnt winning or making the playoffs in a league where more teams make it than dont, then its a failure. so my point is that if the knicks dont make the playoffs, then its a failure like past regimes. doesnt matter how many picks you didnt trade or cap space or whatever. 3 years in and phil has made his huge free agent splash and acquisitions. missing the playoffs again would be indicative of his team building ability. nothing ive said here is biased or "haterade". i think thats a fair argument that many would agree with.

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:nobody knows what the results will be but the knicks still have alot of work to do to "win now".

b/c of rose + noah's injury history (as well as noah's all out play which will get him hurt again), the knicks have to get 2 quality backup pg's and 2 quality backup bigs that can play center.

then they need another scorer off the bench and depth in general. as it stands right now, the knicks have about $4 mil and no MLE b/c of the cap space. they need to fill all those spots with that and minimum deals.

the starting 5 right now will be expected to play 35+ mins each. it's a really long season...and it will be a tough fight this year in the east for slots 2-8. i think the knicks just need to make the playoffs - regardless of how it is. even if they squeak in with 41 wins and the 8th seed. and just hope everyone is healthy once it starts. if they don't make the playoffs then you would have to say the phil jackson era has been on par with his predecessors.

Exactly. And this is completely his team. At this point, you can't keep blaming the situation he inherited. He'll be 40 months into a 5 year contract after this season.

This was Phil's team before these moves. Why are you talking as if you're a fan of some other team looking to assign blame??? You don't sound like someone who is interested in looking for how the team CAN be successful as much as how they can fail.

Yes there is a risk of injury. That isn't the same as a guarantee that things will go wrong. I'm not reading anything from you about how this could workout with the players in great shape going into next season. How do you think the players will function together and why?

djsunyc, the Knicks are NOT going to have to play their starters 35+ minutes a game! I mean come on man. At least try to be less biased. Phil has done this MANY times before and knows how to handle a team with older vets. Phil and JH will be very much aware of taking care of the players who need to watch their minutes.

while i am biased (and pretend not to be) the bottom line is results. fans constantly rationalize moves their teams make. but ultimately, if the team isnt winning or making the playoffs in a league where more teams make it than dont, then its a failure. so my point is that if the knicks dont make the playoffs, then its a failure like past regimes. doesnt matter how many picks you didnt trade or cap space or whatever. 3 years in and phil has made his huge free agent splash and acquisitions. missing the playoffs again would be indicative of his team building ability. nothing ive said here is biased or "haterade". i think thats a fair argument that many would agree with.

They may not now but they will in 6 months if the team is bad.