home33 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Knicks are not abandoning the Future. Phil has clearly stated that his approach is to have a Present and Future component. This trade has set the Knicks up for having a legit PRESENT and at the same time he's still gonna have a lot of young players in development along with KP. Phil is trying to make a run over the next few years that Melo has left and it will still be before KP reaches his prime.

That's a mighty fine tightrope you except him to walk.

home33 wrote:

nixluva wrote:It is actually what the Spurs have been doing for years. You have to keep bringing in youth and developing them behind your vets. So on the Knicks you have KP obviously, but there are going to be other young players brought in as well. Willy is coming in just to name one such young player, but there are more. Clearly that's what the SL and DL teams are about.

No the Spurs have been methodical and patient, while grooming their own players. They draft better than anyone in the league the past 15 years. They don't overpay their own FA'S, they get guys with high character to buy into the system, and they don't make panic moves.

They're doing the complete opposite of whatever you just said. Look at how they're able to perpetuate a great bench all these years. RC Buford is the best GM in basketball. The owner hires great personnel and allows them to flourish. Pop is the best coach in the NBA. Duncan hasn't even been much of a factor the last 5 years. They just keep sticking to the script. Draft well utilizing multiple scouts, trade high (see George Hill trade), maintain cap flexibility, resign guys to friendly deals, manage their stars' minutes. They are the pinnacle for steady as she goes. Their turnover rate is high for role players, yet they still manage to contend. It ain't luck.

WTF are you talking about??? The Spurs have added VETS to play along with their other long term vets and draft pick Kawhi. They were fortunate in that they have had Duncan all these years and they drafted extremely well. The current Knicks regime has literally just started this program and it's not Phil's fault that he didn't have draft picks. The man has been adding draft picks tho. It will take time to develop these young players but in the meantime having Vets to help win right now is a smart move by the Knicks. The Knicks are very much trying to do things the way the Spurs have. Of course you can look at the Spurs and see their early work but the Knicks are just getting going under Phil and he did not have all his picks so of course it seems like they aren't doing things in the same way but they are.

Spurs
NO.	NAME	          POS	AGE
21	Tim Duncan	  C	40
24	Andre Miller	  PG	40
20	Manu Ginobili	  SG	38
15	Matt Bonner	  C	36
30	David West	  PF	35
33	Boris Diaw	  C	34
9	Tony Parker	  PG	34
23	Kevin Martin	  SG	33
12	LaMarcus Aldridge PF	30
14	Danny Green	  SG	29
40	Boban Marjanovic  C	27
8	Patty Mills	  PG	27
17	Jonathon Simmons  SG	26
2	Kawhi Leonard	  SF	24
1	Kyle Anderson	  SF	22
--	Dejounte Murray	  G	19

nixluva wrote:WTF are you talking about??? The Spurs have added VETS to play along with their other long term vets and draft pick Kawhi. They were fortunate in that they have had Duncan all these years and they drafted extremely well. The current Knicks regime has literally just started this program and it's not Phil's fault that he didn't have draft picks. The man has been adding draft picks tho. It will take time to develop these young players but in the meantime having Vets to help win right now is a smart move by the Knicks. The Knicks are very much trying to do things the way the Spurs have. Of course you can look at the Spurs and see their early work but the Knicks are just getting going under Phil and he did not have all his picks so of course it seems like they aren't doing things in the same way but they are.

SEE ANDREW? See what I'm talking about. You have a pre-existing problem of douchebaggery. So what do you think it is I said to deserve THAT first line?

So NixLuva - watch your goddamn mouth. It's more like WTF are YOU talking about. LOL at comparing the Spurs 17 years of contention to the Knicks. Gtfo. No one said ANYTHING about Phil Jackson. I said the KNICKS. But since you f'd up your own point, see below for notes:

Spurs
NO.	NAME	          POS	AGE
21	Tim Duncan	  C	40 - DRAFTED
24	Andre Miller	  PG	40
20	Manu Ginobili	  SG	38 - DRAFTED
15	Matt Bonner	  C	36
30	David West	  PF	35 - SIGNED ULTRA CHEAP
33	Boris Diaw	  C	34 - SIGNED TO FRIENDLY DEAL]
9	Tony Parker	  PG	34 - DRAFTED
23	Kevin Martin	  SG	33
12	LaMarcus Aldridge PF	30 - SIGNED TO MARKET-PRICE DEAL
14	Danny Green	  SG	29 - YANKED FROM D-LEAGUE
40	Boban Marjanovic  C	27 - YANKED FROM SERBIA
8	Patty Mills	  PG	27 - YANKED FROM CHINA
17	Jonathon Simmons  SG	26 - 
2	Kawhi Leonard	  SF	24 - DRAFTED
1	Kyle Anderson	  SF	22 - DRAFTED
--	Dejounte Murray	  G	19

If you're gonna' talk s*t, at least make a cogent point.

home33 wrote:

nixluva wrote:WTF are you talking about??? The Spurs have added VETS to play along with their other long term vets and draft pick Kawhi. They were fortunate in that they have had Duncan all these years and they drafted extremely well. The current Knicks regime has literally just started this program and it's not Phil's fault that he didn't have draft picks. The man has been adding draft picks tho. It will take time to develop these young players but in the meantime having Vets to help win right now is a smart move by the Knicks. The Knicks are very much trying to do things the way the Spurs have. Of course you can look at the Spurs and see their early work but the Knicks are just getting going under Phil and he did not have all his picks so of course it seems like they aren't doing things in the same way but they are.

SEE ANDREW? See what I'm talking about. You have a pre-existing problem of douchebaggery. So what do you think it is I said to deserve THAT first line?

So NixLuva - watch your goddamn mouth. It's more like WTF are YOU talking about. LOL at comparing the Spurs 17 years of contention to the Knicks. Gtfo. No one said ANYTHING about Phil Jackson. I said the KNICKS. But since you f'd up your own point, see below for notes:

Spurs
NO.	NAME	          POS	AGE
21	Tim Duncan	  C	40 - DRAFTED
24	Andre Miller	  PG	40
20	Manu Ginobili	  SG	38 - DRAFTED
15	Matt Bonner	  C	36
30	David West	  PF	35 - SIGNED ULTRA CHEAP
33	Boris Diaw	  C	34 - SIGNED TO FRIENDLY DEAL]
9	Tony Parker	  PG	34 - DRAFTED
23	Kevin Martin	  SG	33
12	LaMarcus Aldridge PF	30 - SIGNED TO MARKET-PRICE DEAL
14	Danny Green	  SG	29 - YANKED FROM D-LEAGUE
40	Boban Marjanovic  C	27 - YANKED FROM SERBIA
8	Patty Mills	  PG	27 - YANKED FROM CHINA
17	Jonathon Simmons  SG	26 - 
2	Kawhi Leonard	  SF	24 - DRAFTED
1	Kyle Anderson	  SF	22 - DRAFTED
--	Dejounte Murray	  G	19

If you're gonna' talk s*t, at least make a cogent point.

No idea what you're arguing about and don't care, but couple of things caught my eye.

12 LaMarcus Aldridge PF 30 - SIGNED TO MARKET-PRICE DEAL

Not sure there is any point to calling a max deal a market-price deal.

Not like they had an option to sign him to a worse deal, and they didn't sign him to a better one.

Seems like a superflous designation.

2 Kawhi Leonard SF 24 - DRAFTED

Ummm, no.

Well, yeah, okay, I suppose they got the Pacers to draft him. Okay, I'll give that one.

home33 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

home33 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:My thing is when do we start actually winning for today? Everything is next year and 3 years from now.... the Knicks have an opportunity to win in 2016. Get down or lay down

buddy - you win from within. impatient fans are why dolan "starphucked" the team into the 6th circle of hell. sounds like you're "laying down" for mediocrity and treadmilling. I'm getting down for home-grown brew, something to be proud about. Not this circle-jerk Super-Friends 4-year plan fiasco the league has turned into.

my "thing" is I'd like contention for a decade, not 2 years. As a fan, I have integrity. I don't wanna freaking poach players, I don't wanna collude, I don't wanna see guys flopping on MY court.

Knicks need to completely rebuild. But they won't. Look at the Wolves...no one's laughing now.

What is your former user name?

Apparently lurking = excuse for paranoia.

CrushMoreThanAlot was my original. I think the question is - since you copied my username...who are you?

Crush2? CrushJr? Does that make me your daddy? YOU'RE PEDRO MARTINEZ. Knew it.

Detectiving over here y'all.

Oh good we have another clown.

CrushAlot wrote:

home33 wrote:

nixluva wrote:It is actually what the Spurs have been doing for years. You have to keep bringing in youth and developing them behind your vets. So on the Knicks you have KP obviously, but there are going to be other young players brought in as well. Willy is coming in just to name one such young player, but there are more. Clearly that's what the SL and DL teams are about.

No the Spurs have been methodical and patient, while grooming their own players. They draft better than anyone in the league the past 15 years. They don't overpay their own FA'S, they get guys with high character to buy into the system, and they don't make panic moves.

They're doing the complete opposite of whatever you just said. Look at how they're able to perpetuate a great bench all these years. RC Buford is the best GM in basketball. The owner hires great personnel and allows them to flourish. Pop is the best coach in the NBA. Duncan hasn't even been much of a factor the last 5 years. They just keep sticking to the script. Draft well utilizing multiple scouts, trade high (see George Hill trade), maintain cap flexibility, resign guys to friendly deals, manage their stars' minutes. They are the pinnacle for steady as she goes. Their turnover rate is high for role players, yet they still manage to contend. It ain't luck.

Didn't Nix say the Spurs keep bringing in youth and developing them behind their vets? Are you saying they are not doing that?

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

home33 wrote:

nixluva wrote:It is actually what the Spurs have been doing for years. You have to keep bringing in youth and developing them behind your vets. So on the Knicks you have KP obviously, but there are going to be other young players brought in as well. Willy is coming in just to name one such young player, but there are more. Clearly that's what the SL and DL teams are about.

No the Spurs have been methodical and patient, while grooming their own players. They draft better than anyone in the league the past 15 years. They don't overpay their own FA'S, they get guys with high character to buy into the system, and they don't make panic moves.

They're doing the complete opposite of whatever you just said. Look at how they're able to perpetuate a great bench all these years. RC Buford is the best GM in basketball. The owner hires great personnel and allows them to flourish. Pop is the best coach in the NBA. Duncan hasn't even been much of a factor the last 5 years. They just keep sticking to the script. Draft well utilizing multiple scouts, trade high (see George Hill trade), maintain cap flexibility, resign guys to friendly deals, manage their stars' minutes. They are the pinnacle for steady as she goes. Their turnover rate is high for role players, yet they still manage to contend. It ain't luck.

Didn't Nix say the Spurs keep bringing in youth and developing them behind their vets? Are you saying they are not doing that?

Dude is confusing me as well. Spurs most definitely have brought in VETS too. I mean LaMarcus, West, Diaw in particular. It's reported that they are after Durant. How are they not doing what the Knicks are trying to do?

they can bring in vets and kids on smart contract but their core for 20 years were draftees.

The knicks have one player in KP that looks like he will be very good but he is not a star. When and if he becomes one then they will have one.

Is that all phil's fault? of course not but he is not doing anything to really fix it or change the strategic direction to a more patient and smarter one. The issue with this is our desperate and type A fans who need it today no matter the cost. We don't need to go all in on every poker hand.

Look at how desperate you are and how your optimism gets shattered year after year. 35 pages of Tony Wroten say it all. And, I get your pain btw ...

No. This team will not win unless 5 miracles happen. We need to trade melo and tank tank tank. Or of course sign Durant.

Who knows ... maybe phil has been trying to trade melo but the NTC and his value may be a problem.

we can't win by putting all our chips in every year and praying for a miracle.

And, you/we can't keep changing opinions and direction on a dime as if yesterdays opinions meant nothing. You were crazy over grant ... what happened to that? I know ... I guess this is what Horny wanted ... doesn't fly.

Knickoftime wrote:

mreinman wrote:Is that all phil's fault? of course not but he is not doing anything to really fix it or change the strategic direction to a more patient and smarter one.

And what does that look like exactly?

Lopez and Grant were the key to what?

grant was a kid we drafted and lopez was at least a trade chip to get another shot at another kid.

Knickoftime wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

mreinman wrote:Is that all phil's fault? of course not but he is not doing anything to really fix it or change the strategic direction to a more patient and smarter one.

And what does that look like exactly?

Lopez and Grant were the key to what?

grant was a kid we drafted and lopez was at least a trade chip to get another shot at another kid.

Well, you and I both know the odds of kids turning into useful pros.

If the Knicks were no longer enamored with Grant, are you suggested smart organizations just sit on them anyway, due solely to age?

Well, you and I both know the odds of kids turning into useful pros.

thats why you need many draft picks.

If the Knicks were no longer enamored with Grant, are you suggested smart organizations just sit on them anyway, due solely to age?

of course not. smart organizations may have see these deficiencies before drafting him (NOT EASY), they could have tried to use him to his strengths like PnR, they could have included him in a package for another young asset or pick.

was drafting KP (by default) the only move that phil made that did not require a reboot? You can't see how this is shaky at best?

And I like JH but you just gave him a guy who can't shoot but loves to shoot (when healthy). Add that to carmelo's suspect shot selection. Are we setting him up to fail?

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

home33 wrote:

nixluva wrote:It is actually what the Spurs have been doing for years. You have to keep bringing in youth and developing them behind your vets. So on the Knicks you have KP obviously, but there are going to be other young players brought in as well. Willy is coming in just to name one such young player, but there are more. Clearly that's what the SL and DL teams are about.

No the Spurs have been methodical and patient, while grooming their own players. They draft better than anyone in the league the past 15 years. They don't overpay their own FA'S, they get guys with high character to buy into the system, and they don't make panic moves.

They're doing the complete opposite of whatever you just said. Look at how they're able to perpetuate a great bench all these years. RC Buford is the best GM in basketball. The owner hires great personnel and allows them to flourish. Pop is the best coach in the NBA. Duncan hasn't even been much of a factor the last 5 years. They just keep sticking to the script. Draft well utilizing multiple scouts, trade high (see George Hill trade), maintain cap flexibility, resign guys to friendly deals, manage their stars' minutes. They are the pinnacle for steady as she goes. Their turnover rate is high for role players, yet they still manage to contend. It ain't luck.

Didn't Nix say the Spurs keep bringing in youth and developing them behind their vets? Are you saying they are not doing that?

Dude is confusing me as well. Spurs most definitely have brought in VETS too. I mean LaMarcus, West, Diaw in particular. It's reported that they are after Durant. How are they not doing what the Knicks are trying to do?

they can bring in vets and kids on smart contract but their core for 20 years were draftees.

The knicks have one player in KP that looks like he will be very good but he is not a star. When and if he becomes one then they will have one.

Is that all phil's fault? of course not but he is not doing anything to really fix it or change the strategic direction to a more patient and smarter one. The issue with this is our desperate and type A fans who need it today no matter the cost. We don't need to go all in on every poker hand.

Look at how desperate you are and how your optimism gets shattered year after year. 35 pages of Tony Wroten say it all. And, I get your pain btw ...

No. This team will not win unless 5 miracles happen. We need to trade melo and tank tank tank. Or of course sign Durant.

Who knows ... maybe phil has been trying to trade melo but the NTC and his value may be a problem.

we can't win by putting all our chips in every year and praying for a miracle.

And, you/we can't keep changing opinions and direction on a dime as if yesterdays opinions meant nothing. You were crazy over grant ... what happened to that? I know ... I guess this is what Horny wanted ... doesn't fly.

KP is a budding star I have no idea how a so called Knicks fan could not view KP a ROY runner up as a star. What about him makes it seem like he's not capable of a franchise type talent?

Regarding Phil's approach, I think as usual you're totally LOST in regards to understanding what he's doing. Why in the world should he take a more patient approach? He only had 1 pick and he made it count, but this wasn't a situation where he was going to be able to build solely thru the draft.

I'm not desperate. I'm a happy fan, and I wish I could figure out what the hell you are, besides being a F'n Troll of your own team! What was the reason from bringing up Wroten and the thread on him? What is the point of talking about how I liked Grant? When trades are made plans can change. I liked RoLo too. The Knicks brought in Rose so they have the push guard they wanted and Horny needed for how he wants the team to play. Seems simple enough but too hard for you to comprehend. Deals are made all the time. Phil is doing the right thing by supporting his new Coach. If Horny says he doesn't want Wroten then so be it. They had nothing serious invested in him. I liked him but so what? I'm not in the Knicks front office or coaching staff.

Regarding the teams direction, what matters most to Phil is WINNING. He's not doing anything except trying to put together a winning team. He hasn't sold the teams future, in fact he's added picks since coming to the team. If you weren't being so pissy perhaps you would see more clearly what's going on with the team you supposedly love. This Rose gambit could end up helping to push this team WAY up into the top of the East. It could really help in FA. Thing is you as usual don't want to even consider that good things could result from this move. FA is days away and I suppose you'll be ready to piss on any moves as usual.

no need to get bent out of shape ...

well I guarantee that whoever they sign you will be thrilled.

Its easy to just say stuff when it does not count and tomorrow you can hit reboot and completely change your posting tune. I guess you and reboot phil have a lot in common.

And KP looks like he has a lot of potential and star quality but you may want to wait until it actually happens. No, he is not a star. He may be come one though in your mind it happened already, just like how great our wroten grant backcourt was gonna run teams out of the building.