nixluva wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:
100% correct... but he is ALWAYS hurt. He has never been able to stay healthy in his career. Now with smaller lineup and KP playing some 5 potentially he should be able to keep his minutes reasonable, but whats the contract? I mean he's a great player.. even all banged up he embarrassed Lopez last year.

If we could balance this by signing a younger I would open for sure... he would be a great addition. Even as a teacher for Willy, KP, KOQ.. etc

All I can say is fingers crossed he's healthy if we sign him. He never is. Great player though... tough call

FYI, through their first 8 seasons in the league:

Robin Lopez averaged 68.4 games per season
Joakim Noah averaged 67.9 games per season

Were people concerned about Lopez's injury history prior to last season? Obviously Lopez is trending in the right direction playing 82 games three out of the last four season, but lets not pretend Lopez was always an iron man before the Knicks acquired him. Noah's shoulder injury last year is just one of those things that happens and shouldn't be chronic. His knee situation from the previous season concerns for me more.

Sure Noah is an injury risk, but if we can get him reasonable money, and we play him similar minutes to how we used Lopez last year, I think I take that risk.

It seems that apart from Noah's Shoulder surgery there doesn't seem to be anything major with his Knee. No surgery tho the Tendinitis was an issue it doesn't seem like there's anything more serious than that.

DATE	        INJURY
01/15/2016	Left shoulder separation
12/21/2015	Left shoulder sprain
11/09/2015	Sore left knee
04/13/2015	Left knee tendinitis

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

nixluva wrote:Durant may be a long shot but I think adding Noah is a very high degree of probability. His game would fit well in the Knicks new style and roster. His ability to run the floor and pass would be great and his passion on D would be very important.

Joakim Noah’s Knicks momentum keeps building
By Marc Berman June 27, 2016 | 10:16am

The positive feelings between Joakim Noah and the Knicks are mutual.

According to an NBA source, the Knicks have “a very high interest” in signing Noah to play center in a frontcourt that would feature Carmelo Anthony and Kristaps Porzingis. Another NBA source said Noah is eager for at least a sitdown with the Knicks.

The Knicks traded last season’s starting center, Robin Lopez, in the deal that brought back Derrick Rose.

As The Post reported, Noah, a New York City product, was in town over the weekend and went clubbing with Rose on Thursday night. Rose confirmed at his press conference Friday he was already in the process of recruiting Noah.

A report the Wizards were planning to offer Noah the max was shot down, but they should have interest. The Chicago Sun-Times reported Sunday money isn’t the No. 1 priority for Noah. The newspaper cited three factors: a chance to win, a chance to start and finish games and joining a club that would get behind his Noah’s Arc Foundation. The report stated it would be “naive” to think Noah would just go for the highest offer.

That’s good news for the Knicks. They have approximately $30 million in cap space — factoring in three cap holds for their own choice free agents — and still need to spend on a starting shooting guard.

The Knicks also could face opposition from Minnesota, where former Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau runs the show. The Bulls are not believed to be in the picture, though they have requested a meeting with Noah.

“Oh, I want him. He knows that. I think his family knows that. I think everybody knows that,” Rose said at his press conference.

“Even last night, I was talking to him about it. He’s in a position where he got injured twice last year, it was his contract year and he has to figure out what he wants to do. I can’t get mad with the decision he makes soon. He knows I would want to play with him.”

The Knicks don’t have a meeting set up with Kevin Durant, who will be with Carmelo Anthony at a press conference Monday to announce the US Olympic Team. Durant has spent the past several days in New York, where his Roc Nation agency is based.

The Vertical reported six teams — Warriors, Heat, Celtics, Clippers, Spurs and Thunder — will meet with Durant on July 1. Durant won’t even meet with the Wizards, his hometown team. On Sunday, the Oklahoman listed the top eight contenders for Durant and the Knicks were missing from the list.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/27/joakim-noahs-knicks-momentum-keeps-building/

Nix, is this your heart saying this or your stats? We are certainly compounding injury risk. Noah's offensive numbers appear to be in decline. His passing is upper tier and that hasnt really changed. But can he be more than a 20 min guy? This becomes just a function of cost.

How much would you pay Noah? I like your quants... if Lopez was $13mm last year, what is Noah this year?

Noah IMO is the kind of guy you add like Rasheed. His presence in the locker room, practice floor and in the ear of the team during games is very valuable. He is PERFECT to help mentor Willy and KP. I put a HIGH value on that.

didn't we have that in lopez? And, right now, lopez is a much better player than noah (who btw, was my favorite player in the NBA in his prime).

did you actually watch Noah vs. Lopez last year? The bold is simply not true. Any more than when you say Jose is a better player than Rose.

so you base your comparison on a 1 or 2 heads up matchups?

Jose last year was a much better player than Rose (and Jose stinks). And its not like Rose can make it up with defense because he is a bad defender.

Lopez had a decent season. Very inconsistent but overall good. Noah was already breaking down and put like 20/10 on Lopez in about 15 minutes of play. The point was Lopez had no answer because he is an inferior player.

So you are basing this off of 1 game?

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:
100% correct... but he is ALWAYS hurt. He has never been able to stay healthy in his career. Now with smaller lineup and KP playing some 5 potentially he should be able to keep his minutes reasonable, but whats the contract? I mean he's a great player.. even all banged up he embarrassed Lopez last year.

If we could balance this by signing a younger I would open for sure... he would be a great addition. Even as a teacher for Willy, KP, KOQ.. etc

All I can say is fingers crossed he's healthy if we sign him. He never is. Great player though... tough call

FYI, through their first 8 seasons in the league:

Robin Lopez averaged 68.4 games per season
Joakim Noah averaged 67.9 games per season

Were people concerned about Lopez's injury history prior to last season? Obviously Lopez is trending in the right direction playing 82 games three out of the last four season, but lets not pretend Lopez was always an iron man before the Knicks acquired him. Noah's shoulder injury last year is just one of those things that happens and shouldn't be chronic. His knee situation from the previous season concerns for me more.

Sure Noah is an injury risk, but if we can get him reasonable money, and we play him similar minutes to how we used Lopez last year, I think I take that risk.

It seems that apart from Noah's Shoulder surgery there doesn't seem to be anything major with his Knee. No surgery tho the Tendinitis was an issue it doesn't seem like there's anything more serious than that.

DATE	        INJURY
01/15/2016	Left shoulder separation
12/21/2015	Left shoulder sprain
11/09/2015	Sore left knee
04/13/2015	Left knee tendinitis

Noah gets hurt a lot... plain and simple. It should factor into his cost. In terms of talent and impact vs. Rolo its not even close.

I remember he had a lot of issues with his foot at one point... plantar fasciitis? That's the more worrying one for big men.

But I would sign Noah in a heartbeat. Dude is a New Yorker and wants to be here. He won Defensive Player of the Year in 2014. He's one of the best passing big men in the league. One of the best defenders. One of the best team leaders. A lot of intangible stuff. Not to mention he's DRose's best friend and probably makes DRose a better player here.

I sign him in a heartbeat. If we can get him for $15M a year, honestly, that's a steal for us. That's $2M more per season than Rolo for a guy who impacts the game 10x more than Rolo.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/_MarcusD_/status/747463590592946176

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just for a frame of reference of why the Knicks are after Noah.

They say he's 100% healthy right now and I think with reasonable minutes and some days off the Knicks could keep Noah healthy for the playoffs. The shoulder injury has allowed Noah to rest his legs since last January. That may have allowed him to regenerate a bit more than if he had played an entire season.

Yep. I really question how much basketball people have watched over the past few years if they think Rolo is better than Noah.

Of course it is a health risk. But there is plenty of upside. There's a reason the Wolves and Wizards and even Bulls all desperately want Noah.

last few years? Noah was in the mvp running a few years ago.

How were his advanced stats then? Did they compare to Rolo's or were the press just using the eye test?

not sure what you are arguing and why ... rolo never sniffed the player that Noah was in his prime. Very few have.

So you think a separated shoulder has robbed him of his ability to play the game?

he just looks like his has lost a lot and is a shell of what he was.

Like I've said - there was some sort of cultural behind the scenes war with the Bulls that led to Thibs firing, the Bulls front office making that weird announcement, Hoiberg seemed in over his head, DRose and Butler clashed, Gasol and Noah clashed... I don't think you can look at last season as definitive for either Noah or Rose. Something weird went down in Chicago.

Noah was at ws/48 .130 in 2014-5... I think that's more the player you'd get than what you saw last season. And that was better than Rolo's season with the Knicks last year. And it was on par with what Dwight did last year.

It's a risk, but there are worse risks IMHO. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just for a frame of reference of why the Knicks are after Noah.

They say he's 100% healthy right now and I think with reasonable minutes and some days off the Knicks could keep Noah healthy for the playoffs. The shoulder injury has allowed Noah to rest his legs since last January. That may have allowed him to regenerate a bit more than if he had played an entire season.

Yep. I really question how much basketball people have watched over the past few years if they think Rolo is better than Noah.

Of course it is a health risk. But there is plenty of upside. There's a reason the Wolves and Wizards and even Bulls all desperately want Noah.

last few years? Noah was in the mvp running a few years ago.

How were his advanced stats then? Did they compare to Rolo's or were the press just using the eye test?

not sure what you are arguing and why ... rolo never sniffed the player that Noah was in his prime. Very few have.

So you think a separated shoulder has robbed him of his ability to play the game?

he just looks like his has lost a lot and is a shell of what he was.

Like I've said - there was some sort of cultural behind the scenes war with the Bulls that led to Thibs firing, the Bulls front office making that weird announcement, Hoiberg seemed in over his head, DRose and Butler clashed, Gasol and Noah clashed... I don't think you can look at last season as definitive for either Noah or Rose. Something weird went down in Chicago.

Noah was at ws/48 .130 in 2014-5... I think that's more the player you'd get than what you saw last season. And that was better than Rolo's season with the Knicks last year. And it was on par with what Dwight did last year.

It's a risk, but there are worse risks IMHO. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

something was definitely wrong in chicago and I think that we now have that main problem.

we can take risks but how many? We can try to do what the Nets did and also fall on our face. Rose is short term right now so this disaster scenario has not played out here yet. I hope it stays that way.

I can understand paying for risk but way over paying and praying is just silly.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just for a frame of reference of why the Knicks are after Noah.

They say he's 100% healthy right now and I think with reasonable minutes and some days off the Knicks could keep Noah healthy for the playoffs. The shoulder injury has allowed Noah to rest his legs since last January. That may have allowed him to regenerate a bit more than if he had played an entire season.

Yep. I really question how much basketball people have watched over the past few years if they think Rolo is better than Noah.

Of course it is a health risk. But there is plenty of upside. There's a reason the Wolves and Wizards and even Bulls all desperately want Noah.

last few years? Noah was in the mvp running a few years ago.

How were his advanced stats then? Did they compare to Rolo's or were the press just using the eye test?

not sure what you are arguing and why ... rolo never sniffed the player that Noah was in his prime. Very few have.

So you think a separated shoulder has robbed him of his ability to play the game?

he just looks like his has lost a lot and is a shell of what he was.

Like I've said - there was some sort of cultural behind the scenes war with the Bulls that led to Thibs firing, the Bulls front office making that weird announcement, Hoiberg seemed in over his head, DRose and Butler clashed, Gasol and Noah clashed... I don't think you can look at last season as definitive for either Noah or Rose. Something weird went down in Chicago.

Noah was at ws/48 .130 in 2014-5... I think that's more the player you'd get than what you saw last season. And that was better than Rolo's season with the Knicks last year. And it was on par with what Dwight did last year.

It's a risk, but there are worse risks IMHO. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

something was definitely wrong in chicago and I think that we now have that main problem.

we can take risks but how many? We can try to do what the Nets did and also fall on our face. Rose is short term right now so this disaster scenario has not played out here yet. I hope it stays that way.

I can understand paying for risk but way over paying and praying is just silly.

what does this have to do with the Nets? Im sorry... what draft picks did we include for Rose? Which picks will we be including for Noah?

that I don't want to throw big money at big risks. We have not done it yet (aside for melo which I got).

Despite not liking the Rose trade I do like the philosophy. Knicks we aggressive in upgrading the talent and unlike in the past that risk didn't include future picks or a boatload of young talent. If this fails or REALLY fails our hedge is we still have a draft pick. We are still adding young guys. We are still looking at the team and not a starphuck.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just for a frame of reference of why the Knicks are after Noah.

They say he's 100% healthy right now and I think with reasonable minutes and some days off the Knicks could keep Noah healthy for the playoffs. The shoulder injury has allowed Noah to rest his legs since last January. That may have allowed him to regenerate a bit more than if he had played an entire season.

Yep. I really question how much basketball people have watched over the past few years if they think Rolo is better than Noah.

Of course it is a health risk. But there is plenty of upside. There's a reason the Wolves and Wizards and even Bulls all desperately want Noah.

last few years? Noah was in the mvp running a few years ago.

How were his advanced stats then? Did they compare to Rolo's or were the press just using the eye test?

not sure what you are arguing and why ... rolo never sniffed the player that Noah was in his prime. Very few have.

So you think a separated shoulder has robbed him of his ability to play the game?

he just looks like his has lost a lot and is a shell of what he was.

Like I've said - there was some sort of cultural behind the scenes war with the Bulls that led to Thibs firing, the Bulls front office making that weird announcement, Hoiberg seemed in over his head, DRose and Butler clashed, Gasol and Noah clashed... I don't think you can look at last season as definitive for either Noah or Rose. Something weird went down in Chicago.

Noah was at ws/48 .130 in 2014-5... I think that's more the player you'd get than what you saw last season. And that was better than Rolo's season with the Knicks last year. And it was on par with what Dwight did last year.

It's a risk, but there are worse risks IMHO. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

something was definitely wrong in chicago and I think that we now have that main problem.

we can take risks but how many? We can try to do what the Nets did and also fall on our face. Rose is short term right now so this disaster scenario has not played out here yet. I hope it stays that way.

I can understand paying for risk but way over paying and praying is just silly.

what does this have to do with the Nets? Im sorry... what draft picks did we include for Rose? Which picks will we be including for Noah?

that I don't want to throw big money at big risks. We have not done it yet (aside for melo which I got).

Me either. But once the first tier of options goes the next wave of possibilities all carry risk. It would be nice to just sign Durant or Horford and call it a day, but I don't believe we have that luxury so we have to look at risks. Overpaying an RFA or another guy whom you lure with money has risk. Paying a guy who may not be available (injuries) has risk also. Doing nothing carries its own risk.

Despite not liking the Rose trade I do like the philosophy. Knicks we aggressive in upgrading the talent and unlike in the past that risk didn't include future picks or a boatload of young talent. If this fails or REALLY fails our hedge is we still have a draft pick. We are still adding young guys. We are still looking at the team and not a starphuck.

Phil can't keep losing trades ... I know what he did / trying to do and in my opinion, they gave up way too much value for the (low) potential of upside.

I don't care who you trade away as long as you get appropriate value in return.

I guess I can just not be a pig and be happy that we did not give up a first.

With regard to Noah he had shoulder surgery, which of course isn't good but it wasn't his knees!!! People can be concerned about him missing games but in terms of helping this team Noah could end up being a good fit if we can get him to play about 75 games and be healthy for the playoffs i'd take that. Having quality depth behind Noah should also help to keep minutes down. I really hope that the Knicks will have quite a few big leads which would allow for more rest. Think of how Curry barely played in 4th qtrs. Having more games where the Knicks are up big and into the bench has to be a hoped for goal.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think he'd be a great fit here and fans would love his hustle.

Also, someone, I think maybe Walt said something to the effect that Noah might help tether DRose and make him feel more comfortable... I think that could be very true. There are plenty of on court reasons to sign Noah, but that may be a big off court one.

Also, Rose and Melo are quiet guys, not vocal leaders. They're more lead by example guys. Noah is an on the court coach. He will scream out defensive assignments and he is very vocal. The team needs an on court veteran LEADER. Noah is one of the best.

100% correct... but he is ALWAYS hurt. He has never been able to stay healthy in his career. Now with smaller lineup and KP playing some 5 potentially he should be able to keep his minutes reasonable, but whats the contract? I mean he's a great player.. even all banged up he embarrassed Lopez last year.

If we could balance this by signing a younger I would open for sure... he would be a great addition. Even as a teacher for Willy, KP, KOQ.. etc

All I can say is fingers crossed he's healthy if we sign him. He never is. Great player though... tough call

How is he "ALWAYS" hurt? For his career, he's played in 572 games out of 738. That's 78% of games played.

That number increases to 83% if you remove last season (543 games played out of 656), his worst season in terms of health.

Is he going to be the league's iron man? No. Are his injury issues from last season an indicator of future health issues, perhaps.

But I wouldn't say he's always hurt.

Better start warming up to him now... Sure sounds like he's gonna be the guy.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think he'd be a great fit here and fans would love his hustle.

Also, someone, I think maybe Walt said something to the effect that Noah might help tether DRose and make him feel more comfortable... I think that could be very true. There are plenty of on court reasons to sign Noah, but that may be a big off court one.

Also, Rose and Melo are quiet guys, not vocal leaders. They're more lead by example guys. Noah is an on the court coach. He will scream out defensive assignments and he is very vocal. The team needs an on court veteran LEADER. Noah is one of the best.

100% correct... but he is ALWAYS hurt. He has never been able to stay healthy in his career. Now with smaller lineup and KP playing some 5 potentially he should be able to keep his minutes reasonable, but whats the contract? I mean he's a great player.. even all banged up he embarrassed Lopez last year.

If we could balance this by signing a younger I would open for sure... he would be a great addition. Even as a teacher for Willy, KP, KOQ.. etc

All I can say is fingers crossed he's healthy if we sign him. He never is. Great player though... tough call

How is he "ALWAYS" hurt? For his career, he's played in 572 games out of 738. That's 78% of games played.

That number increases to 83% if you remove last season (543 games played out of 656), his worst season in terms of health.

Is he going to be the league's iron man? No. Are his injury issues from last season an indicator of future health issues, perhaps.

But I wouldn't say he's always hurt.

He's averaged 64 games a season. That is missing more than a month and half a year on average, almost 20 games a year. That's a lot. 78% doesn't seem so bad, but its pretty bad. IT would be like signing him but he can play until Christmas... dude is hurt a lot and misses a lot of games. Im a fan but its part of the picture with Noah.

Better start warming up to him now... Sure sounds like he's gonna be the guy.

Not for nothing, but Robin Lopez averages 68.

he played all 82 3 out of the last 4 years. recent history is more indicative than what he did at the start of his career. He's been quite durable.