WaltLongmire wrote:Lin does not want to come back to the Knicks (unless we offer him some kind of max contract, of course)...this is a reporter inspired story, and Lin is probably looking to amp up his value in the way he responded.

Let his people make a pronouncement about wanting to be here...the kind of thing Thibs did- until then this talk is a waste of time.

And lets not rewrite history...Anthony and JR took hits for commenting on how the contract was a bit ridiculous, something neither should have done at the time-they should have kept their mouths shut. Hahn has talked about the fact that Lin was not loved on that team, but you still keep quiet.

Lin, on the other hand, was someone I wanted back at the time, but in my mind he was complicit in pushing Houston to come up with that contract that made it impossible for us to resign him. The guy had a great situation in NY, even if there was friction between he and Melo.

Choosing to stay out of the playoffs was an indication that he was out for himself more than helping his team, and that alone makes me dislike him. Same thing happened with the Jets and John Abraham, who was in a similar situation for the playoffs, and as soon as he did it I wanted him off the team.

Any "interest" Lin has in coming to the Knicks is about building up a market for himself. He outplayed his contract in Charlotte, and deserves a raise, but even though Linsanity was a great moment in the recent history of the team, I don't think I would want the guy back, for anything more than a small contract-much less than he would want, I expect.

crzymdups wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Lin does not want to come back to the Knicks (unless we offer him some kind of max contract, of course)...this is a reporter inspired story, and Lin is probably looking to amp up his value in the way he responded.

Let his people make a pronouncement about wanting to be here...the kind of thing Thibs did- until then this talk is a waste of time.

And lets not rewrite history...Anthony and JR took hits for commenting on how the contract was a bit ridiculous, something neither should have done at the time-they should have kept their mouths shut. Hahn has talked about the fact that Lin was not loved on that team, but you still keep quiet.

Lin, on the other hand, was someone I wanted back at the time, but in my mind he was complicit in pushing Houston to come up with that contract that made it impossible for us to resign him. The guy had a great situation in NY, even if there was friction between he and Melo.

Choosing to stay out of the playoffs was an indication that he was out for himself more than helping his team, and that alone makes me dislike him.

+1
This is so nicely and consistently ignored by the rabid LinLovers who want to cream endlessly over the two week "moment", like it was on par with the first time they got a hand job by the hot girl at recess.

So do you guys hate Derrick Rose already? He did the same thing in Chicago.

Personally I think a guy's long term health is more important and I like DRose and JLin and understand their decisions.

Maybe because I've been on teams and coached all my life- who knows- But guys like Willis or Kirk Gibson, or the Japanese gymnast in 1976 who had to perform on the rings with a destroyed leg to get a TEAM Gold medal, and knowing the kind of pain he would experience he did it and his team beat the Russians for the Gold.

You at least go on the court and try to play, IMO, and then see what you can do. You can still be cautious but show your toughness.

A majority of the money he's made in his NBA career came from what he did during a short period of time with the Knicks and the opportunity the team gave him.

It disturbs me that our relationship with Lin ended as it did.

Knickoftime wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks really wanted him back they could have offered him a deal up front, instead of telling him to go find a deal. You think Lin would've turned down 3yr/$18M? Knicks never offered him a deal!

Actually no.

Due to the intricacies of restricted free agency, they could not have done that. They didn't have the cap space and he wasn't a full Bird free agent.

CBA rules allowed them to match much more than they had to offer outright. They wanted him to go out there and sign an offer sheet that league rules would allow them to match on purpose.

But he went and go the so-called "poison pill" deal, rather than just a standard one.

Stop inserting facts into the LinLove fest. We all see what a mistake it was not to have Lin here. Remember what great memories he created during the playoffs? Oh wait...

They're not facts.

Here are some facts -

Q.
Why didn’t the Knicks simply outbid the Rockets, or lock up Lin sooner?

A.
They couldn’t. The Knicks were not permitted to give Lin an extension during the season. They had to wait for him to become a restricted free agent on July 1. Even then, they were constrained by the N.B.A.’s arcane cap rules. The most they could offer was $28.75 million over five years, or — to compare apples to apples — $16.13 million over three years. Only a rival team with cap room could give Lin the balloon payment. Again, for Lin to maximize his value, he had to play the market. Also, no contracts could be signed from July 1-10, so the Knicks had to wait while Lin tested the market.

Q.
Does this mean Lin wanted to leave?

A.
No, Lin never gave any indication that he wanted to leave New York. It is common for restricted free agents to solicit offers from other teams to drive up their price, even if they prefer to stay. In fact, this was the only way for Lin to maximize his value. It was a smart business move.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/questions-abound-with-lin-in-the-balance/?_r=0

Knicks could have offered him 3yr $16M or 5yr $28M on July 1. They did not. They told him to go solicit offers. He did. Dolan got pissed about the poison pill and didn't sign it.

And THAT is factorial.

That's all fair enough and I'm glad for the additional details.

The point was Lin going out and seeking the deal the Knicks could only match and not offer him outright was a mutually agreed upon strategy.

That Lin would have accepted what the Knicks were limited to offering him had they not instructed him to go field offers is purely conjecture.

He was a marketing, ratings goldmine at the time. I think he felt justified to maximize his value and by all reports the Knicks agreed with him.

Again, the point is I don't see a scenario in which the Knicks screwed up. To say he would have accepted 3/$16m without fielding offers sheets is a dubious conclusion.

The smart play for the Knicks was to offer it to him before going to the market. We will never know if he would have accepted it or not.

The Knicks knew.

The player was on their roster. They had conversations with his agent. They didn't come up with the strategy on their own.

If fans want to cling to the idea that the Knicks and Lin were opposing forces trying to guess one another's next move and Lin wouldn't have jumped at what would have been a minimum offer without testing the market, enjoy that version of events.

The poison pill was Morey's creation. Nobody has done it before. If knicks offered him the full MLE which is around 5M per year then it would have been 3/16M or 5/28M. That would be the known/accepted top contract for Lin at the time since other teams can only offer 5M per year for the 1st 2 years. Knicks wanted to see if somebody would actually give him the full MLE before offering him anything.

It was not Morey's creation. The term and general premise goes back to the Gilbert Arenas rule of 2005. Larry Coon was well aware of the rule's potential application and covered it in his FAQ well before Morey applied it.

The point remains Lin and the Knicks agreed his value exceeded what they were limited to offer him, which was a reasonable agreement. And they were prepared to match his first offer from Houston, which also contained a backloaded contract. Knicks wanted to resign him and were willing and prepared to pay him more than what they could offer.

Morey increased the back end, Lin signed the offer sheet and the luxury tax implications became too much.

Frankly, I don't blame Morey (he wanted a player), I don't blame Lin (he wanted what the market would pay him) and I don't blame the Knicks (the CBA placed them in a tough spot and Morey in an advantageous one).

Linsanity was awesome. Some of the most fun I've had as a Knicks/NBA fan. But it just wasn't destined to work out long term.

this right here is by far the best post in this thread. very well said knickoftime, i think everyone can agree with this.

blkexec wrote:Dolan has already blocked this guy from coming back. No chance! Lin needs NY more than NY needs Lin, and Dolan knows this! No chance. Dolan's ego is too heavy and pockets too deep.

Lin doesn't need New York, he's gonna get anywhere from $12-$15 million from whoever signs him.

jrodmc wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Lin does not want to come back to the Knicks (unless we offer him some kind of max contract, of course)...this is a reporter inspired story, and Lin is probably looking to amp up his value in the way he responded.

Let his people make a pronouncement about wanting to be here...the kind of thing Thibs did- until then this talk is a waste of time.

And lets not rewrite history...Anthony and JR took hits for commenting on how the contract was a bit ridiculous, something neither should have done at the time-they should have kept their mouths shut. Hahn has talked about the fact that Lin was not loved on that team, but you still keep quiet.

Lin, on the other hand, was someone I wanted back at the time, but in my mind he was complicit in pushing Houston to come up with that contract that made it impossible for us to resign him. The guy had a great situation in NY, even if there was friction between he and Melo.

Choosing to stay out of the playoffs was an indication that he was out for himself more than helping his team, and that alone makes me dislike him.

+1
This is so nicely and consistently ignored by the rabid LinLovers who want to cream endlessly over the two week "moment", like it was on par with the first time they got a hand job by the hot girl at recess.

CrushAlot wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Lin does not want to come back to the Knicks (unless we offer him some kind of max contract, of course)...this is a reporter inspired story, and Lin is probably looking to amp up his value in the way he responded.

Let his people make a pronouncement about wanting to be here...the kind of thing Thibs did- until then this talk is a waste of time.

And lets not rewrite history...Anthony and JR took hits for commenting on how the contract was a bit ridiculous, something neither should have done at the time-they should have kept their mouths shut. Hahn has talked about the fact that Lin was not loved on that team, but you still keep quiet.

Lin, on the other hand, was someone I wanted back at the time, but in my mind he was complicit in pushing Houston to come up with that contract that made it impossible for us to resign him. The guy had a great situation in NY, even if there was friction between he and Melo.

Choosing to stay out of the playoffs was an indication that he was out for himself more than helping his team, and that alone makes me dislike him.

+1
This is so nicely and consistently ignored by the rabid LinLovers who want to cream endlessly over the two week "moment", like it was on par with the first time they got a hand job by the hot girl at recess.

He also chose to not play on the usa select team because of his free agency and fired his agent to go with a bigger name to negotiate his deal. It was about business and looking out for himself. Nothing wrong with that but it isn't any different from other guys/agents trying to get the most money in their contract aside from firing the agent and not playing in the playoffs.

If anything not playing for Team USA should drive home the fact that he wasn't healthy.

But the Lin truthers know he was healthy and made Houston offer him a poison pill. Just like they know we'll get a Durant meeting, despite Woj's so-called sources.

The important thing is that the Knicks have never done anything wrong and every superstar wants to sign here!

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Lin does not want to come back to the Knicks (unless we offer him some kind of max contract, of course)...this is a reporter inspired story, and Lin is probably looking to amp up his value in the way he responded.

Let his people make a pronouncement about wanting to be here...the kind of thing Thibs did- until then this talk is a waste of time.

And lets not rewrite history...Anthony and JR took hits for commenting on how the contract was a bit ridiculous, something neither should have done at the time-they should have kept their mouths shut. Hahn has talked about the fact that Lin was not loved on that team, but you still keep quiet.

Lin, on the other hand, was someone I wanted back at the time, but in my mind he was complicit in pushing Houston to come up with that contract that made it impossible for us to resign him. The guy had a great situation in NY, even if there was friction between he and Melo.

Choosing to stay out of the playoffs was an indication that he was out for himself more than helping his team, and that alone makes me dislike him.

+1
This is so nicely and consistently ignored by the rabid LinLovers who want to cream endlessly over the two week "moment", like it was on par with the first time they got a hand job by the hot girl at recess.

He also chose to not play on the usa select team because of his free agency and fired his agent to go with a bigger name to negotiate his deal. It was about business and looking out for himself. Nothing wrong with that but it isn't any different from other guys/agents trying to get the most money in their contract aside from firing the agent and not playing in the playoffs.

If anything not playing for Team USA should drive home the fact that he wasn't healthy.

But the Lin truthers know he was healthy and made Houston offer him a poison pill. Just like they know we'll get a Durant meeting, despite Woj's so-called sources.

The important thing is that the Knicks have never done anything wrong and every superstar wants to sign here!

“Unfortunately, I am not going to be able to participate in the 2012 USA Men’s Select Team this summer,” Lin said in a statement. “It was such an incredible honor to be selected, but I have withdrawn my name from the team because of my status as a free agent. I hope to have the opportunity to participate with USA Basketball at some point in the future.”

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:As others have said it is not happening as its highly unlikely Dolan will not admit he f'd up.

F'd up how?

By NOT paying $35m for Lin's production in the last year of his deal?

Dolan ain't very good at this job, but I don't blame him for that one.

Assigning all the luxury tax to Lin is such BS. How much did Bargnani cost them then? How about Chris Smith's contract?

crzymdups wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:As others have said it is not happening as its highly unlikely Dolan will not admit he f'd up.

F'd up how?

By NOT paying $35m for Lin's production in the last year of his deal?

Dolan ain't very good at this job, but I don't blame him for that one.

Assigning all the luxury tax to Lin is such BS. How much did Bargnani cost them then? How about Chris Smith's contract?

No, it isn't.

That was the choice in front of the Knicks at the time. Lin isn't to blame for the bad cap management before or after, but that isn't the point.

The $15m figure in the final year would have triggered a significant luxury tax hit. That it wasn't Lin's sole making is beside the point. Of course it wasn't. The first $70m or whatever is was was equally part of the problem.

But that doesn't change the choice they had to make.

I wouldn't have paid Lin $15m at all, much less the extra $16-17m it would have trigged either.

Read what I'm saying to you, not some version you want to argue against.

Dolan sucks.

That decision didn't.

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:As others have said it is not happening as its highly unlikely Dolan will not admit he f'd up.

F'd up how?

By NOT paying $35m for Lin's production in the last year of his deal?

Dolan ain't very good at this job, but I don't blame him for that one.

Assigning all the luxury tax to Lin is such BS. How much did Bargnani cost them then? How about Chris Smith's contract?

No, it isn't.

That was the choice in front of the Knicks at the time. Lin isn't to blame for the bad cap management before or after, but that isn't the point.

The $15m figure in the final year would have triggered a significant luxury tax hit. That it wasn't Lin's sole making is beside the point. Of course it wasn't. The first $70m or whatever is was was equally part of the problem.

But that doesn't change the choice they had to make.

I wouldn't have paid Lin $15m at all, much less the extra $16-17m it would have trigged either.

Read what I'm saying to you, not some version you want to argue against.

Dolan sucks.

That decision didn't.

Bargnani made $14M during the 2014-5 season in which people were worried about Lin's $15M balloon payment and the supposed luxury tax it would incure. So what's the difference there again? The difference is Lin is a somewhat valuable basketball player and retaining him wouldn't have cost us a lottery pick.