EnySpree wrote:You guys would rather go out of your way to masterbate with sandpaper even when there's plenty of lotion on your nightstand

+100000000000

They'd rather play circlejerk in Candyland while eating old, reheated horseshit, like JlinsideMe, "The Rape/Trade", "PP is for Me"...etc, etc...

fishmike wrote:the hardest thing to get is talent... elite talent is even harder. Grant Hill spent 6 years battling injuries and couldn't get on the court. 6 years! Then, after all that he had 4 seasons where we he pretty much played 80 games.

Its one thing to put all your coins into a broken machine, but this is not the case. This is a case of the Knicks trading a complimentary part for a player with a much higher upside. They did not mortgage the future in any way shape or form.

Also Rose will be a complimentary piece, or hopefully piece of a "big 4" with Melo/KP/Rose and a high level FA this year.

Thing is, the Suns weren't paying Hill the max.

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:You guys would rather go out of your way to masterbate with sandpaper even when there's plenty of lotion on your nightstand

They can't kill my vibe!!! This is a very exciting summer so far. There are a lot of possibilities for building the rest of this team. It's going to be fun to see what other players we end up getting and what players come to camp next season.

Absolutely. I love the Rose trade. This is the very definition of low risk high reward.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont believe we will know until next summer. The Knicks future hinges IMO on what Phil does with Rose.

Signing Derrick Rose for Max years, Max dollars next summer would be no different than any other quick fix previous Knick GMs have foisted on fans over the past decade. The player that used to be Derrick Rose has been a shell of his former self for the last 4 years. Derrick has been one of the worst in the league, if not the worst at his position. Right now he is Derrick Rose in name only (no Shakespeare please)

Rose might have shown some signs of life here and there, but not enough to be anything but very wary of a long term deal. If this were one knee surgery, one bad season, talking a chance on Rose would be worth the gamble. I dont care how old he is, Im sure Rose's knees are a lot older.

What I dont know, and no one here knows, is how well Rose has to play to get that big contract he has been telling the media that he cant wait to sign. Will journeyman numbers be enough? Slightly better? Something closer to the old Derrick Rose? No one really knows, and anyone who says they do is lying. How good is enough for Phil to give someone who has shown they can't stay on the court the Max? We wont know that until next summer, until then the jury is out.

so no matter what happens Phil gets an F if Rose plays his way into a big extension?

Would you give him the Max? What is your criteria for a contract extension? I didnt want to give Melo max years either for the same reasons, age, injuries, cap hit. With Rose the risk is even greater.

We basically gave up Grant for a one year look at Rose and his bird rights as well as full medical knowledge privy to his situation.
Ropez as a freebie. We gave up no future assets. we got back a serviceable Two, (Holiday and second round pick)
So basically your afraid we end up with another Amare situation. THat is logical, but not one medical situation with one mans body is the same on anothers.
Also, who is to say his market price will be that high and another team will go max on him? We might decide on Westbrook? If KP has a monster year, the whole thing changes.

lopez had very good trade value. Don't just dismiss that.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:the hardest thing to get is talent... elite talent is even harder. Grant Hill spent 6 years battling injuries and couldn't get on the court. 6 years! Then, after all that he had 4 seasons where we he pretty much played 80 games.

Its one thing to put all your coins into a broken machine, but this is not the case. This is a case of the Knicks trading a complimentary part for a player with a much higher upside. They did not mortgage the future in any way shape or form.

Also Rose will be a complimentary piece, or hopefully piece of a "big 4" with Melo/KP/Rose and a high level FA this year.

Thing is, the Suns weren't paying Hill the max.

and for every grant hill story there are 20 Brandon Roy's.

Phil made one bad trade. He has also not had draft picks in 2/3 years because of the stupidity of the past GM's. Don't discount how difficult it is to sit down free agents and pitch the stability of this organization. We have been top 5 bad for close to 12 years now and Dolan has little to no respect around the league.

The deals for DWill and Affalo were smart, let's give him a little more time before we pass any judgement.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:the hardest thing to get is talent... elite talent is even harder. Grant Hill spent 6 years battling injuries and couldn't get on the court. 6 years! Then, after all that he had 4 seasons where we he pretty much played 80 games.

Its one thing to put all your coins into a broken machine, but this is not the case. This is a case of the Knicks trading a complimentary part for a player with a much higher upside. They did not mortgage the future in any way shape or form.

Also Rose will be a complimentary piece, or hopefully piece of a "big 4" with Melo/KP/Rose and a high level FA this year.

Thing is, the Suns weren't paying Hill the max.

and for every grant hill story there are 20 Brandon Roy's.

We aren't locked into Rose long term so it's really just a case of Rose proving he can still do it. The Knicks need him to pick up his efficiency at the rim and from 3. I'm pretty darned sure that's what they'll be working with him on the rest of this summer. Shooting is a skill that Rose can improve on with work. We're not looking for him to suddenly become Steph Curry. Just make decent improvement. If he can get his 3pt% up to about 34% that would be good. He doesn't have to be great just solid. Hornacek is an Analytics guy and will work with Rose to understand where he's most efficient. Hornacek is also a shooting coach and perhaps he's able to help his players in that regard as well.

so this will be the first time that he will work with a shooting coach? No one else cared that he can't shoot?

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:the hardest thing to get is talent... elite talent is even harder. Grant Hill spent 6 years battling injuries and couldn't get on the court. 6 years! Then, after all that he had 4 seasons where we he pretty much played 80 games.

Its one thing to put all your coins into a broken machine, but this is not the case. This is a case of the Knicks trading a complimentary part for a player with a much higher upside. They did not mortgage the future in any way shape or form.

Also Rose will be a complimentary piece, or hopefully piece of a "big 4" with Melo/KP/Rose and a high level FA this year.

Thing is, the Suns weren't paying Hill the max.

The money is meaningless at this point. Why people keep going back to this is beyond me. Rose won't stop the Knicks from adding whatever talent they need this summer. They still have over $30 mil of cap to work with. That should be enough to add a couple of solid FA's that fill our needs a SG and C.

Not talking about this summer. Im talking about what happens if Rose signs a max deal and his production ends up being close to what we have seen the last 4 years, namely him being one of the worst if not the worst PG in the league.

Whatever the max will be, 25-30 million a year in cap room for 5 years would be flushed down the toilet. We couldnt make the playoffs year after year in part because Curry's contract was dead cap space. That cap room could not be used to upgrade the roster.

don't think that will happen.

I am worried if Rose has a decent year and we max him based on weak fools gold.

GustavBahler wrote:

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:the hardest thing to get is talent... elite talent is even harder. Grant Hill spent 6 years battling injuries and couldn't get on the court. 6 years! Then, after all that he had 4 seasons where we he pretty much played 80 games.

Its one thing to put all your coins into a broken machine, but this is not the case. This is a case of the Knicks trading a complimentary part for a player with a much higher upside. They did not mortgage the future in any way shape or form.

Also Rose will be a complimentary piece, or hopefully piece of a "big 4" with Melo/KP/Rose and a high level FA this year.

Thing is, the Suns weren't paying Hill the max.

The money is meaningless at this point. Why people keep going back to this is beyond me. Rose won't stop the Knicks from adding whatever talent they need this summer. They still have over $30 mil of cap to work with. That should be enough to add a couple of solid FA's that fill our needs a SG and C.

Not talking about this summer. Im talking about what happens if Rose signs a max deal and his production ends up being close to what we have seen the last 4 years, namely him being one of the worst if not the worst PG in the league.

Whatever the max will be, 25-30 million a year in cap room for 5 years would be flushed down the toilet. We couldnt make the playoffs year after year in part because Curry's contract was dead cap space. That cap room could not be used to upgrade the roster.

don't think that will happen.

I am worried if Rose has a decent year and we max him based on weak fools gold.

Not sure where we disagree. Thats exactly what Im concerned about.

ok. I thought that was where you stood but you mentioned that if his production was near his 4 year numbers ... that would give him no chance at a big contract as was not the scenario I was worried about.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:the hardest thing to get is talent... elite talent is even harder. Grant Hill spent 6 years battling injuries and couldn't get on the court. 6 years! Then, after all that he had 4 seasons where we he pretty much played 80 games.

Its one thing to put all your coins into a broken machine, but this is not the case. This is a case of the Knicks trading a complimentary part for a player with a much higher upside. They did not mortgage the future in any way shape or form.

Also Rose will be a complimentary piece, or hopefully piece of a "big 4" with Melo/KP/Rose and a high level FA this year.

Thing is, the Suns weren't paying Hill the max.

and for every grant hill story there are 20 Brandon Roy's.

We aren't locked into Rose long term so it's really just a case of Rose proving he can still do it. The Knicks need him to pick up his efficiency at the rim and from 3. I'm pretty darned sure that's what they'll be working with him on the rest of this summer. Shooting is a skill that Rose can improve on with work. We're not looking for him to suddenly become Steph Curry. Just make decent improvement. If he can get his 3pt% up to about 34% that would be good. He doesn't have to be great just solid. Hornacek is an Analytics guy and will work with Rose to understand where he's most efficient. Hornacek is also a shooting coach and perhaps he's able to help his players in that regard as well.

so this will be the first time that he will work with a shooting coach? No one else cared that he can't shoot?

I don't understand you and your negative take at all. You should be jumping for Joy over Hornacek but your jaded and negative take doesn't allow you to even recognize a victory when you have it. Hornacek is a fully modern coach. We know he's going to use every tool available to try and help our team become more efficient.

Who knows what and who Rose worked with in the past? I do know who we have as our head Coach now and what he focuses on. Perhaps you simply don't respect that but Hornacek clearly is what you claim to believe in. He applies Analytics and maybe he'll be more successful working with Rose than some others have been.

Hornacek told Arizona Sports 98.7 FM that ball movement will improve once his players commit to placing the pass above the shot on their collective list of priorities.

“When we do drive or make a quick move, [I'd like] the pass comes out there quicker for somebody else," Hornacek said. "I think we take one or two more extra dribbles and then we try to pass out. We could move it quicker."

The Suns are not quite as reluctant sharing the ball as their assist numbers make it appear. Phoenix ranks 18th in the league in passes per game, according to SportVU tracking. Again, there is plenty of room for improvement, but it also shows the assist numbers are a little more about shot-making and a little less about an aversion to sharing.

“We’re in the middle of the pack," Hornacek said. "We have the analytics and SportsVU cameras that show the amount of passes…we’re not great at it and that’s what we want to strive for, is to move the ball.”

Analytics have also helped Hornacek good option for two-man games, knowledge that is essential in his guard-centric, pick-and-roll offense. He admitted that the information analytics provide can sometimes overwhelm with possibilities and information, but that they've been revealing both for him and his players.

“There’s a lot of good stuff in there and it’s stuff we can use with the players," Hornacek said. "For example, they think they’re great one-on-one players, but if you show them that they’re shooting 37 percent, then they say, ‘oh, well okay. Maybe I’m not.’”

http://www.nba.com/suns/blog/arizona-sports-hornacek-talks-passing-analytics

I like Hornacek but I don't think that he is a magician.

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:the hardest thing to get is talent... elite talent is even harder. Grant Hill spent 6 years battling injuries and couldn't get on the court. 6 years! Then, after all that he had 4 seasons where we he pretty much played 80 games.

Its one thing to put all your coins into a broken machine, but this is not the case. This is a case of the Knicks trading a complimentary part for a player with a much higher upside. They did not mortgage the future in any way shape or form.

Also Rose will be a complimentary piece, or hopefully piece of a "big 4" with Melo/KP/Rose and a high level FA this year.

Thing is, the Suns weren't paying Hill the max.

The money is meaningless at this point. Why people keep going back to this is beyond me. Rose won't stop the Knicks from adding whatever talent they need this summer. They still have over $30 mil of cap to work with. That should be enough to add a couple of solid FA's that fill our needs a SG and C.

Not talking about this summer. Im talking about what happens if Rose signs a max deal and his production ends up being close to what we have seen the last 4 years, namely him being one of the worst if not the worst PG in the league.

Whatever the max will be, 25-30 million a year in cap room for 5 years would be flushed down the toilet. We couldnt make the playoffs year after year in part because Curry's contract was dead cap space. That cap room could not be used to upgrade the roster.

don't think that will happen.

I am worried if Rose has a decent year and we max him based on weak fools gold.