crzymdups wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Might not be a bad idea to wait to see if this actually occurs...

Just sayin'.

True. But if Washington is even considering offering this deal to Noah

I'm merely suggesting we don't actually know for sure that they are.

Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer

There are people in the Knicks organization who'd like to pursue Joakim Noah in free agency. And the interest seems to be mutual. People familiar with the situation say the Knicks are one team that Noah will be interested in in free agency. It will be key to find a contract that works for both sides, obviously. But Derrick Rose and Noah are close; Noah also has a good relationship with Carmelo Anthony. The Bulls center also grew up in New York and attended high school in Brooklyn. Also, for those interested in such things, Rose and Noah have been spotted in NYC together in the last 24 hours

CrushAlot wrote:

Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer

There are people in the Knicks organization who'd like to pursue Joakim Noah in free agency. And the interest seems to be mutual. People familiar with the situation say the Knicks are one team that Noah will be interested in in free agency. It will be key to find a contract that works for both sides, obviously. But Derrick Rose and Noah are close; Noah also has a good relationship with Carmelo Anthony. The Bulls center also grew up in New York and attended high school in Brooklyn. Also, for those interested in such things, Rose and Noah have been spotted in NYC together in the last 24 hours

http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0538067890398566802-4

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/_WilC/status/746413920500363264

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?

The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.

Lots of teams have cap room to burn through, this offer for Noah pretty much proves that. They could have waited a season for Rose to be an FA. They would have seen how Rose was faring on some other team's dime. Meanwhile our starting frontcourt would have been set with plenty of cap room to go after FAs. As I said have no problem with the idea of Rolo being traded, but not for damaged goods, not for an expiring contract.

If Rose returns to even an above average point guard, he never would be available to us. The trade is a risk, but it's a calculated one and I can live with it. Even if Rose is just out to get a max offer this year, we should benefit.

Because Rose wants the max, right. Trading the best center we have had in a long time with a very reasonable contract, in the hopes of maybe paying a PG who hasnt been a star in this league in 4 years the max, seems like an act of desperation.

Well, there is the matter of the production you'd receive in 2016-17, which you don't seem to consider.

No one denies it's a risk.

What is or isn't "desperation" is so utterly subjective and personal what's the point even trying to agree on such a thing?

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?

The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.

Lots of teams have cap room to burn through, this offer for Noah pretty much proves that. They could have waited a season for Rose to be an FA. They would have seen how Rose was faring on some other team's dime. Meanwhile our starting frontcourt would have been set with plenty of cap room to go after FAs. As I said have no problem with the idea of Rolo being traded, but not for damaged goods, not for an expiring contract.

If Rose returns to even an above average point guard, he never would be available to us. The trade is a risk, but it's a calculated one and I can live with it. Even if Rose is just out to get a max offer this year, we should benefit.

Because Rose wants the max, right. Trading the best center we have had in a long time with a very reasonable contract, in the hopes of maybe paying a PG who hasnt been a star in this league in 4 years the max, seems like an act of desperation.

I've already outlined the basketball reasons I didn't think Rolo was a great fit for Melo and KP. What use is it if he's a bargain and he doesn't fit the team? Hornacek has said he wants to play faster. Maybe Rolo didn't fit his vision for the team. I'm fine with the move. I think some of you guys are overrating Rolo.

I believe the statistics show that KP played better with Rolo than without him. I don't believe it was as much about what Rolo did or didn't do as much as it was about Phil willing to do whatever it takes to sign Rose. If we can sign a big who can fill the void, great. Still dont like risking it all on Rose's gimpy knees, and if we give him the max thats exactly what Phil will be doing.

Sullinger on another note is very skilled and a wide body and young but his weight is a problem.

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?

The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.

Lots of teams have cap room to burn through, this offer for Noah pretty much proves that. They could have waited a season for Rose to be an FA. They would have seen how Rose was faring on some other team's dime. Meanwhile our starting frontcourt would have been set with plenty of cap room to go after FAs. As I said have no problem with the idea of Rolo being traded, but not for damaged goods, not for an expiring contract.

If Rose returns to even an above average point guard, he never would be available to us. The trade is a risk, but it's a calculated one and I can live with it. Even if Rose is just out to get a max offer this year, we should benefit.

Because Rose wants the max, right. Trading the best center we have had in a long time with a very reasonable contract, in the hopes of maybe paying a PG who hasnt been a star in this league in 4 years the max, seems like an act of desperation.

I've already outlined the basketball reasons I didn't think Rolo was a great fit for Melo and KP. What use is it if he's a bargain and he doesn't fit the team? Hornacek has said he wants to play faster. Maybe Rolo didn't fit his vision for the team. I'm fine with the move. I think some of you guys are overrating Rolo.

I believe the statistics show that KP played better with Rolo than without him. I don't believe it was as much about what Rolo did or didn't do as much as it was about Phil willing to do whatever it takes to sign Rose. If we can sign a big who can fill the void, great. Still dont like risking it all on Rose's gimpy knees, and if we give him the max thats exactly what Phil will be doing.

Whether we sign Rose or not is a bunch of steps ahead of the game.

And how KP played with Rolo... sure... but also to consider how playing with a potentially very good to great PG will elevate KP's game. The only guy on the market who could do that was Conley and the Knicks supposedly got word he wasn't coming here. The other options were Jennings and Rondo. So the question is - does Rondo and Rolo work better for KP and Melo than DRose and Noah? If DRose and Noah have anything left in the tank, I think the answer is obvious. And I don't think you can go by last year - both were coming off injuries and there was weird juju in the air in Chicago after Thibs was fired. There was a power struggle for the soul of the team. Butler apparently won... yet he was in trade rumors last night. Noah was benched, even when healthy. He came in when others were injured and had some great games and expressed his frustration all year.

I'm very much into the wait and see how things go camp. Maybe it's a huge mistake... maybe not. But this isn't like when the Nets traded for KG and Pierce and mortgaged their future by sending three first round picks. This is a trade in which we gave up an average center on a cheap-ish deal, a young PG who may well be good or may well be a career backup, and dead cap weight Calderon. For that we get a 28yr old PG who with something to prove, who when healthy is one of the elite scorers in the league from his position. We also may get an elite defensive pressence, elite winner, elite passing center - maybe Noah enters a sort of Vlade Divac era of his game?

It could be a huge win. If it's not - hey, we can reset in 2017 with a high draft pick and more cap room. If it works - all the sudden the Knicks are a prime time destination in 2017 when one of the best free agent classes of all time hits.

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer

There are people in the Knicks organization who'd like to pursue Joakim Noah in free agency. And the interest seems to be mutual. People familiar with the situation say the Knicks are one team that Noah will be interested in in free agency. It will be key to find a contract that works for both sides, obviously. But Derrick Rose and Noah are close; Noah also has a good relationship with Carmelo Anthony. The Bulls center also grew up in New York and attended high school in Brooklyn. Also, for those interested in such things, Rose and Noah have been spotted in NYC together in the last 24 hours

http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0538067890398566802-4

I think it will be pretty obvious NY is his first choice. If he is offered the max by washington, he may hold off and see if Phil will come close to the max, and may accept a slight discount. I originally thought we would be able to get him for a contract similar to Lopez, now its looking like even 20 mil a year might not be enough. Just crazy stuff.

We'll see. There are going to be so many bat ****e insane rumors the next week before FA... time to roll with the waves and see where we land on July 2nd or 3rd or so. We'll know a lot more by July 4th monday.

But Al and KP are perfect for each other.