ChuckBuck wrote:

Moonangie wrote:We can't tank. We need to see where we actually stand so Phil can determine the best course forward. If Melo gets hurt, THEN we will tank by default.

But if Melo is relatively healthy and the Knicks win as many games as possible, we end up winning maybe 35-40 games, slide into the 8th seed and BLOW our only shot at getting a suitable running mate for KP for the next 10 years...

The 2017 NBA Draft is supposed to be PHUCKING STACKED. An all time rated recruiting class from Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc...

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

You want your wing for the next decade you got it. You want your elite 2 guard you got it. You want your modern day franchise point guard, you got it.

We don't tank this year, our franchise is doomed. We need to be top 5 to get our stud, can't do that by just floating around .500 being mediocre.

I don't believe this team will only win 35-40 games. IMO with better health and coaching they were already capable of that many wins this year. With talent upgrades, internal growth and better coaching from I would expect better than 40 wins. It should not be hard to do if Phil can upgrade the guard n wing spots.

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Moonangie wrote:We can't tank. We need to see where we actually stand so Phil can determine the best course forward. If Melo gets hurt, THEN we will tank by default.

But if Melo is relatively healthy and the Knicks win as many games as possible, we end up winning maybe 35-40 games, slide into the 8th seed and BLOW our only shot at getting a suitable running mate for KP for the next 10 years...

The 2017 NBA Draft is supposed to be PHUCKING STACKED. An all time rated recruiting class from Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc...

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

You want your wing for the next decade you got it. You want your elite 2 guard you got it. You want your modern day franchise point guard, you got it.

We don't tank this year, our franchise is doomed. We need to be top 5 to get our stud, can't do that by just floating around .500 being mediocre.

I don't believe this team will only win 35-40 games. IMO with better health and coaching they were already capable of that many wins this year. With talent upgrades, internal growth and better coaching from I would expect better than 40 wins. It should not be hard to do if Phil can upgrade the guard n wing spots.

nixluva, I appreciate your eternal optimism as a Knicks fan, but sometimes you have to deal with reality and not hypotheticals. This current team won 32 games. If everyone plays to their highest potential, a titanic turnaround would be considered +10 in the win column. To allow for injuries, learning Horny's system, incorporating new players, team chemistry, and the inevitable losing streak, you'd have to realistically say 35-40 games is the outlook if we add one of these sub par free agents, sign some roster filler, and either DWill and/or AA come back. That's being generous.

Jumps to 45-50 wins or more from 32 wins just don't happen with a roster as disjointed as ours.

newyorker4ever wrote:

callmened wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

callmened wrote:i concur - the goal shouldnt be to tank. despite being devoid a good talent, these guys work too hard. my only point was dont go overspending on starPhucks just to get an older PG. save money and build thru the draft

What exactly do you consider an older point guard or what's too old for you to sign to a 4 year contract?? The way i see it a point guard like M.Conley or R.Rondo or any point guard will be able to play at the same level at 30 that they can play at at 34. Everyone says if a player is 30 then they're getting old which is hilarious cause yes they're getting old just like anyone but they can still play basketball at a top level at 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 and even 35 so i don't give a damn about any player that's GETTING old, i just don't want the ones that are already old which is after 34/35.

ok. i prefer my PGs younger than 30.

i wouldve LOVED to have rondo and conley 6 yrs ago. more importantly i want a PG who is on the same timeline as KP.

thats what i prefer.but im not set on that. if we get conley this yr and more free agents want to come thats GREAT! i just doubt that will happen. Specifically i doubt conley will sign with the knicks and 2ndly even if he did, i doubt the knicks win 45-50 games (no supporting cast) and lastly, even if they did, im not sure free agents would look at the knicks as a destination to be

overall, i dont trust free agents. at least not right now. why? because the knicks arent good! to me, until proven otherwise, a solid equivalent is the sacremento kings. they have talent (boogie, gay) but iffy role players and more importantly iffy management/owner. (obviously these arent PERFECT equivalents 1. NYC is the best city in the world 2. phil makes the staff here more competent)

I would think that everyone would prefer for us to get a legit point guard that's 23/24 years old but there isn't any legit point guards in free agency at that age or even close. Still doesn't have anything to do with the fact that a point guard can still play at a top level at the age of 32 or 34 and there's a couple free agent PG's that are only 30 sitting out there now for us to get and if we signed one of them to a 3/4 year contract they'd be great for us for the whole contract.

You don't get your point guard this year, you get it next year.

Either here:

http://hoopshype.com/2016/05/14/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/

or here:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

ChuckBuck wrote:

Moonangie wrote:We can't tank. We need to see where we actually stand so Phil can determine the best course forward. If Melo gets hurt, THEN we will tank by default.

But if Melo is relatively healthy and the Knicks win as many games as possible, we end up winning maybe 35-40 games, slide into the 8th seed and BLOW our only shot at getting a suitable running mate for KP for the next 10 years...

The 2017 NBA Draft is supposed to be PHUCKING STACKED. An all time rated recruiting class from Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc...

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

You want your wing for the next decade you got it. You want your elite 2 guard you got it. You want your modern day franchise point guard, you got it.

We don't tank this year, our franchise is doomed. We need to be top 5 to get our stud, can't do that by just floating around .500 being mediocre.

Ummmmmmmmmm if the 2017 draft is gonna be PHUCKING STACKED as you say then wouldn't that mean we'll be able to get a great players at 15 or 18 or does PHUCKING STACKED mean that only the lottery picks will have a chance to be great?? To me when someone says a draft is PHUCKING STACKED i take that as at least the first half of the 1st round will be great players.....just sayin.

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Moonangie wrote:We can't tank. We need to see where we actually stand so Phil can determine the best course forward. If Melo gets hurt, THEN we will tank by default.

But if Melo is relatively healthy and the Knicks win as many games as possible, we end up winning maybe 35-40 games, slide into the 8th seed and BLOW our only shot at getting a suitable running mate for KP for the next 10 years...

The 2017 NBA Draft is supposed to be PHUCKING STACKED. An all time rated recruiting class from Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc...

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

You want your wing for the next decade you got it. You want your elite 2 guard you got it. You want your modern day franchise point guard, you got it.

We don't tank this year, our franchise is doomed. We need to be top 5 to get our stud, can't do that by just floating around .500 being mediocre.

Ummmmmmmmmm if the 2017 draft is gonna be PHUCKING STACKED as you say then wouldn't that mean we'll be able to get a great players at 15 or 18 or does PHUCKING STACKED mean that only the lottery picks will have a chance to be great?? To me when someone says a draft is PHUCKING STACKED i take that as at least the first half of the 1st round will be great players.....just sayin.

Don't phucking half step. No half measures, if you want the Knicks to be great, suck all the way.

Love KP, but remember that meaningless 2 game win streak Fisher dealt us in 2015....they cost us Karl Anthony-Towns.

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Moonangie wrote:We can't tank. We need to see where we actually stand so Phil can determine the best course forward. If Melo gets hurt, THEN we will tank by default.

But if Melo is relatively healthy and the Knicks win as many games as possible, we end up winning maybe 35-40 games, slide into the 8th seed and BLOW our only shot at getting a suitable running mate for KP for the next 10 years...

The 2017 NBA Draft is supposed to be PHUCKING STACKED. An all time rated recruiting class from Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc...

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

You want your wing for the next decade you got it. You want your elite 2 guard you got it. You want your modern day franchise point guard, you got it.

We don't tank this year, our franchise is doomed. We need to be top 5 to get our stud, can't do that by just floating around .500 being mediocre.

I don't believe this team will only win 35-40 games. IMO with better health and coaching they were already capable of that many wins this year. With talent upgrades, internal growth and better coaching from I would expect better than 40 wins. It should not be hard to do if Phil can upgrade the guard n wing spots.

nixluva, I appreciate your eternal optimism as a Knicks fan, but sometimes you have to deal with reality and not hypotheticals. This current team won 32 games. If everyone plays to their highest potential, a titanic turnaround would be considered +10 in the win column. To allow for injuries, learning Horny's system, incorporating new players, team chemistry, and the inevitable losing streak, you'd have to realistically say 35-40 games is the outlook if we add one of these sub par free agents, sign some roster filler, and either DWill and/or AA come back. That's being generous.

Jumps to 45-50 wins or more from 32 wins just don't happen with a roster as disjointed as ours.

This team jumped from 17 to 32 wins and could easily have done better IMO. Perhaps if all the somewhat negative things you mentioned took place then yeah only a 3-8 win increase would make sense. I for one don't believe this team maximized its potential this season. It's IMO harder to put a lot of new players together, including Rookies and get them to excel in the Triangle. I suspect the style JH employs will be easier for the players to grasp than the Triangle as it was deployed this season.

The HUGE issue at Guard was also a limiting factor this season that I don't believe will be the same problem next year. We already will start off with more speed and athletic ability on both ends before we include the Draft or FA.

Melo, KP and RoLo should start the year MUCH better than last year. Melo with better conditioning. RoLo being adapted to playing more in the post but freed up to run more PnR which is his specialty. KP being a bit more mature and developed. All of them should benefit from better guard play and the changes to the Triangle JH wants to make.

ChuckBuck wrote:Say we max out 28 year old never been all star Mike Conley, coming off an achilles tendon, and add some supporting pieces that fit Phil/Horny's vision. Say a relatively healthy 32 year old Melo plays 60-70 games of inspired ball, RoLo averages close to a double double, and KP takes another step forward.

Where do you see this Knicks squad ceiling in this 5 year window with the Cavs, Raps, and Celtics still in the way? Do you see them actually contending for an Eastern Conference Title with that lineup? Mind you, we won't be able to land any of the vastly superior free agents in 2017, because we blew the nearly $30m a year on Conley. Other teams will have vast amounts of cash next year, while we can't max a real free agent and have to settle to overpay middle of the road role players next off season and sign a bunch of mid-level and vet minimum contracts.

If the Knicks are going to pay $30m a year to a point guard, shouldn't it be Curry or Westbrook? or CP3 or Lowry? Or 22 year old Dennis Schroeder? Or sign Giannis and make him our Point Forward?

If you're gonna max out a player for $150m+ it better be a real stud and lead to sustainable winning basketball!

Or you can TANK HARD, get your point in the draft, sign Gordon Hayward or hope CJ Mccollum shakes free somehow. So many possibilities next year. Don't need to blow it this year.

Can't really expect this team to TANK HARD!!! You are presenting a scenario that may not happen. We don't know what the Knicks will do in FA. They don't have to max out Conley but if they do there will be other ways to add talent to this roster on the cheap. Also they won't have to complete the roster this summer. Conley would be young enough to be in or near his prime over the next 4 years. All the while the team would still be developing youth and adding role players.

The Knicks aren't gonna be tanking to build from this point forward.

I agree if this was the plan, maybe they don't sign Horny. Just saying it makes sense. Who knows, maybe the fix is in for us to just miss the playoffs and win the lottery anyway.