CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is great. He will be an excellent addition. Looking forward to seeing him

he will be?

he has a chance (a small chance) to be ok.

How do you know what Willy can be? What is "OK" in your book? You do this kind of vague and meaningless negative crap all the time. How about some substance to your posts? Go ahead and break Willy's game down for us.

Yep.

Is there a high percentage of second round picks making it in the nba? I guess you also have to cross reference that with the data on foreign second round picks too, idk.

Response was to what was bolded. However, you would need to quantify what making it is for a guy picked in that spot (34?). If making it is being a rotation player versus being a starter or even being more than that. But again, I was agreeing with the bolded part of what Nix said.

Is that really being negative or just practical?

I think he could grow into a rotation player.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is great. He will be an excellent addition. Looking forward to seeing him

he will be?

he has a chance (a small chance) to be ok.

How do you know what Willy can be? What is "OK" in your book? You do this kind of vague and meaningless negative crap all the time. How about some substance to your posts? Go ahead and break Willy's game down for us.

Is he just voicing his opinion based on the history of the NBA and EURO 2nd rnd players. I don't think any of us could honestly say what this kid will be like. He could either be good, bad, or ok, obviously we all hope for the best, but reality is reality

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is great. He will be an excellent addition. Looking forward to seeing him

he will be?

he has a chance (a small chance) to be ok.

How do you know what Willy can be? What is "OK" in your book? You do this kind of vague and meaningless negative crap all the time. How about some substance to your posts? Go ahead and break Willy's game down for us.

no ... sorry ... making up crap is your job.

I have no idea what willy will or could be but 2 rounders who come to play in the NBA are rarely good and rarely make it. You never take these things into consideration hence the 9 million tony wroten posts.

He may be ok or he may be lou admunson or he may be a star but chances are that he won't be good.

Negative crap? Straight non fantasy land truth.

Please! Do us a favor and try to actually assess the INDIVIDUAL and not this crap about what the odds are on 2nd rd picks. This is such BS and a cop out when you have nothing else to add to the conversation. With all the UDFA's that have made it to the NBA it shows you can't just assume anything about where a player is drafted or not drafted at all. We don't care about the odds being against it. This is only about Willy and his actual talent and not the entire group of 2nd rd talent collectively. Your odds don't mean Shyte. All that matters is what Willy's actual ability is. So either you know something about his talent or you can STFU.

I think his comment was fair. Just wasn't necessary.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:one of the more touted players in EU. Read about the 4 attempts by his current team to extend him. Or just throw poop because he's a 2nd round Euro and that's enough info for you to work with. Seems like the only "facts" some can work with are the ones that come from Marc Berman

most knick fans are excited about willy actually

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:one of the more touted players in EU. Read about the 4 attempts by his current team to extend him. Or just throw poop because he's a 2nd round Euro and that's enough info for you to work with. Seems like the only "facts" some can work with are the ones that come from Marc Berman

most knick fans are excited about willy actually

I agree. Just some grumpy guys with no info to add who seem to revel in pessimism and negativity. Guy is a touted prospect. Nobody is saying he's another KP, but a smart multi skilled bigman? Good shot at a rotation player? I think its safe to project him as a rotation guy (career wise, not rookie). Question is will be an end of rotation bench guy or a starter/core player type? Maybe he's like Kyle OQuinn. Maybe he's like Marc Gasol. Time will tell. The intel however is very positive (if you actually choose to look at it)

This. I am tired of it. I'm all for differing opinions; add some meat into your opinion and we all enjoy the back and forth.

Willy was traded for 2 future round picks. Some have said if he was drafted this year he would go in the 20's, someone else's opinion.

Every pick from #1 on down can fail and fail spectacularly, we all know that.

If all you add is pessimism all the time, it turns into trolling and we all got better things to do.

We've all been Knicks fans for a loooooong time. We are all aware of the possible negatives. None of the pessimism is ground breaking stuff. The fans usually on the positive side tend to be the ones that don't care about being right or wrong. Only looking for reasons Y a player COULD work out or why a situation COULD work out in a positive manner. The ones that have more of a negative view tend to be fans that care more about being right or wrong. And if you choose the negative route odds are you will be more right then wrong since odds are always in the favor of the negative result.

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Good news for Willy and the Knicks. I can't wait to see him and KP back together again.

you think our current coaching staff can develop this kid, that's the biggest issue I have here?

Naw, you got other issues that loom large here!

Lets look at this for a second, Rolo game evolved, and KP did pretty good. You should be ok with the job our staff did with bigs last year.
But I doubt you'll want to be ok. YOu have an agenda and have worked very hard to promote your distain for all things Kurt Rambis.

In the great words of Jim Valvano "Never give up"!!!!!

you have an agenda too, no?

No.

My position is I get the reasoning for keeping Rambis or going with a more charismatic guy. My agenda is to maintain accuracy.
For example, Rambis has been on the bench with Fisher and as associate head coach had a lot to do with KP from day one.
Its not like he came in and messed him up. KP had the flu and kind of hit the wall after the allstar break. Its not accurate to pin this on Rambis as if he is Charles Manson now on the bench coaching or taking a shower with Jerry Sandusky.
Grant came on strong the last 10 games. That's in part because he was told what to concentrate on and not conflicted with what the "Fish guys vs PHil guys" were preaching.

In short, I on the fence as I and argue the reasoning that if Phil is more involved and rambis is ok with him over his shoulder, it makes sense to retain him for now. Bringing in an outsider has appealing aspects but they don't have a history with phil, nor has phil been in this role as "President heavily involed with team coaching" might present a uncomfortable situation for the a Blatt/Vogel type. These guys are their "Own Men" and Phil might recognize it might not be fair to ask this of them.

This is me thinking it thru, not being manipulated by the media. My agenda is neutral. My agenda is to have a coach that is in synch with his roster and management. For now. That's not to say Rambis will, or should be the man for the next 5 years.

newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:one of the more touted players in EU. Read about the 4 attempts by his current team to extend him. Or just throw poop because he's a 2nd round Euro and that's enough info for you to work with. Seems like the only "facts" some can work with are the ones that come from Marc Berman

most knick fans are excited about willy actually

I agree. Just some grumpy guys with no info to add who seem to revel in pessimism and negativity. Guy is a touted prospect. Nobody is saying he's another KP, but a smart multi skilled bigman? Good shot at a rotation player? I think its safe to project him as a rotation guy (career wise, not rookie). Question is will be an end of rotation bench guy or a starter/core player type? Maybe he's like Kyle OQuinn. Maybe he's like Marc Gasol. Time will tell. The intel however is very positive (if you actually choose to look at it)

This. I am tired of it. I'm all for differing opinions; add some meat into your opinion and we all enjoy the back and forth.

Willy was traded for 2 future round picks. Some have said if he was drafted this year he would go in the 20's, someone else's opinion.

Every pick from #1 on down can fail and fail spectacularly, we all know that.

If all you add is pessimism all the time, it turns into trolling and we all got better things to do.

We've all been Knicks fans for a loooooong time. We are all aware of the possible negatives. None of the pessimism is ground breaking stuff. The fans usually on the positive side tend to be the ones that don't care about being right or wrong. Only looking for reasons Y a player COULD work out or why a situation COULD work out in a positive manner. The ones that have more of a negative view tend to be fans that care more about being right or wrong. And if you choose the negative route odds are you will be more right then wrong since odds are always in the favor of the negative result.

I have a positive view of Hernangomez and KP and Grant and Wroten and I'm excited to see if they can improve and can sign players this summer. I like Rolo and Melo and DWill and even kinda like Afflalo sometimes.

That said, can't I still be pissed off about the coaching search and the way it is being handled? The only other time I've been very outspokenly negative was about the way the Jeremy Lin situation was handled. I was roasted then for my "constant negativity" and for suggesting that Melo didn't want him back when I couldn't possibly know - then ESPN reported a few months later that Melo wanted no part of Lin and that was part of why Lin wasn't brought back. I'm getting the same **** now when it is obvious there's a power struggle between Melo and Phil over who the head coach will be - and frankly that's ****ing interesting to talk about. I left the board for over a year before when the Lin **** went down, I'm on the verge of leaving again.

Being able to talk about the team means being able to praise the stuff you like and bitch about the stuff that pisses you off. It doesn't matter in the end, none of it matters, it's ****ing sports and entertainment. But you're allowed to get pissed off about sports and entertainment, no? I respect a lot of guys here, but really some of you "positive" fans are just as stubborn and repetitive and say the same **** with no evidence as some of the so called "negative" ones. The way you dudes gang up on anyone who expresses a view that all is not well and something may be going on behind the scenes to cause it... it just kinda sucks. For the first time I registered at a different site to talk about the Knicks and I've been going there more often. I like a lot of posters here, but really some of the way y'all protect Phil and act like we can't criticize anything he's done... I mean... I dunno, whatever. The way you respond to the supposed "negativity" here is in fact negative in itself and creates a sort of toxic loop. It's not cool. I'll miss some of you dudes, but I won't miss the concern trolling of any negative thought I have about how Phil is doing his job.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:one of the more touted players in EU. Read about the 4 attempts by his current team to extend him. Or just throw poop because he's a 2nd round Euro and that's enough info for you to work with. Seems like the only "facts" some can work with are the ones that come from Marc Berman

most knick fans are excited about willy actually

I agree. Just some grumpy guys with no info to add who seem to revel in pessimism and negativity. Guy is a touted prospect. Nobody is saying he's another KP, but a smart multi skilled bigman? Good shot at a rotation player? I think its safe to project him as a rotation guy (career wise, not rookie). Question is will be an end of rotation bench guy or a starter/core player type? Maybe he's like Kyle OQuinn. Maybe he's like Marc Gasol. Time will tell. The intel however is very positive (if you actually choose to look at it)

This. I am tired of it. I'm all for differing opinions; add some meat into your opinion and we all enjoy the back and forth.

Willy was traded for 2 future round picks. Some have said if he was drafted this year he would go in the 20's, someone else's opinion.

Every pick from #1 on down can fail and fail spectacularly, we all know that.

If all you add is pessimism all the time, it turns into trolling and we all got better things to do.

We've all been Knicks fans for a loooooong time. We are all aware of the possible negatives. None of the pessimism is ground breaking stuff. The fans usually on the positive side tend to be the ones that don't care about being right or wrong. Only looking for reasons Y a player COULD work out or why a situation COULD work out in a positive manner. The ones that have more of a negative view tend to be fans that care more about being right or wrong. And if you choose the negative route odds are you will be more right then wrong since odds are always in the favor of the negative result.

I have a positive view of Hernangomez and KP and Grant and Wroten and I'm excited to see if they can improve and can sign players this summer. I like Rolo and Melo and DWill and even kinda like Afflalo sometimes.

That said, can't I still be pissed off about the coaching search and the way it is being handled? The only other time I've been very outspokenly negative was about the way the Jeremy Lin situation was handled. I was roasted then for my "constant negativity" and for suggesting that Melo didn't want him back when I couldn't possibly know - then ESPN reported a few months later that Melo wanted no part of Lin and that was part of why Lin wasn't brought back. I'm getting the same **** now when it is obvious there's a power struggle between Melo and Phil over who the head coach will be - and frankly that's ****ing interesting to talk about. I left the board for over a year before when the Lin **** went down, I'm on the verge of leaving again.

Being able to talk about the team means being able to praise the stuff you like and bitch about the stuff that pisses you off. It doesn't matter in the end, none of it matters, it's ****ing sports and entertainment. But you're allowed to get pissed off about sports and entertainment, no? I respect a lot of guys here, but really some of you "positive" fans are just as stubborn and repetitive and say the same **** with no evidence as some of the so called "negative" ones. The way you dudes gang up on anyone who expresses a view that all is not well and something may be going on behind the scenes to cause it... it just kinda sucks. For the first time I registered at a different site to talk about the Knicks and I've been going there more often. I like a lot of posters here, but really some of the way y'all protect Phil and act like we can't criticize anything he's done... I mean... I dunno, whatever. The way you respond to the supposed "negativity" here is in fact negative in itself and creates a sort of toxic loop. It's not cool. I'll miss some of you dudes, but I won't miss the concern trolling of any negative thought I have about how Phil is doing his job.

I like Phil's job with the roster. Good picks, adding young players, no bad contracts, draft focused, pushed back on Melo and had him playing like we all dreamed... good things. Knicks have won 17 and 37 games, and the head coach has been fired. That's not good. Firing your handpicked coach after 1.5 season is bad. That's a big mistake. Criticize away.

However there were negative thread after threads about what a terrible job Phil is doing regarding the coaching search and those threads were based on tabloid out of context snippets. The kind of snippets we read last year about Melo's outrage, sabotaging the team, undermining Phil.. you all remember. Meanwhile in the real world DadMelo already had KP under his wing and was putting together Knick player workouts privately.

You are one of good people here that posts based on information, but even you have to admit you were essentially tilting over something that hasn't happened. When Phil hires Rambis than yea man... have at it. But the doom and gloom based on a tabloid snippet is just that.

We have guys here that literally make stuff up. "Phil lowballed Kerr" got tons of play, when indeed Kerr was actually offered more guaranteed money than Fisher. At least you were pissed because you have legit reasons you don't like Rambis, as opposed to making up jive because your pissy and that's your MO. You are one of the best posters here and I applaud you for those reasons. I have noticed you have also backed off a bit with the Rambis stuff and when people say "everyone know Phil's only choice is Rambis" you have taken a more appropriately neutral stance of simply "lets wait and see what happens."

Every GMs make mistakes. The good ones avoid making the kind that hurt you for years, and so far that is my biggest praise for Phil. Yea... Fisher was a fail, but if Phil fixes that staff this offseason whats the fall out? What did Fisher cost us? Bad contracts? Traded or misused draft picks? No.. those are mistakes Phil has avoided. That is my biggest tout of being patient, is that Phil hasn't make a mistake that isn't fixable in the very short term.

Taking breaks is good. Especially this time of year. Don't be gone too long

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:one of the more touted players in EU. Read about the 4 attempts by his current team to extend him. Or just throw poop because he's a 2nd round Euro and that's enough info for you to work with. Seems like the only "facts" some can work with are the ones that come from Marc Berman

most knick fans are excited about willy actually

I agree. Just some grumpy guys with no info to add who seem to revel in pessimism and negativity. Guy is a touted prospect. Nobody is saying he's another KP, but a smart multi skilled bigman? Good shot at a rotation player? I think its safe to project him as a rotation guy (career wise, not rookie). Question is will be an end of rotation bench guy or a starter/core player type? Maybe he's like Kyle OQuinn. Maybe he's like Marc Gasol. Time will tell. The intel however is very positive (if you actually choose to look at it)

This. I am tired of it. I'm all for differing opinions; add some meat into your opinion and we all enjoy the back and forth.

Willy was traded for 2 future round picks. Some have said if he was drafted this year he would go in the 20's, someone else's opinion.

Every pick from #1 on down can fail and fail spectacularly, we all know that.

If all you add is pessimism all the time, it turns into trolling and we all got better things to do.

We've all been Knicks fans for a loooooong time. We are all aware of the possible negatives. None of the pessimism is ground breaking stuff. The fans usually on the positive side tend to be the ones that don't care about being right or wrong. Only looking for reasons Y a player COULD work out or why a situation COULD work out in a positive manner. The ones that have more of a negative view tend to be fans that care more about being right or wrong. And if you choose the negative route odds are you will be more right then wrong since odds are always in the favor of the negative result.

I have a positive view of Hernangomez and KP and Grant and Wroten and I'm excited to see if they can improve and can sign players this summer. I like Rolo and Melo and DWill and even kinda like Afflalo sometimes.

That said, can't I still be pissed off about the coaching search and the way it is being handled? The only other time I've been very outspokenly negative was about the way the Jeremy Lin situation was handled. I was roasted then for my "constant negativity" and for suggesting that Melo didn't want him back when I couldn't possibly know - then ESPN reported a few months later that Melo wanted no part of Lin and that was part of why Lin wasn't brought back. I'm getting the same **** now when it is obvious there's a power struggle between Melo and Phil over who the head coach will be - and frankly that's ****ing interesting to talk about. I left the board for over a year before when the Lin **** went down, I'm on the verge of leaving again.

Being able to talk about the team means being able to praise the stuff you like and bitch about the stuff that pisses you off. It doesn't matter in the end, none of it matters, it's ****ing sports and entertainment. But you're allowed to get pissed off about sports and entertainment, no? I respect a lot of guys here, but really some of you "positive" fans are just as stubborn and repetitive and say the same **** with no evidence as some of the so called "negative" ones. The way you dudes gang up on anyone who expresses a view that all is not well and something may be going on behind the scenes to cause it... it just kinda sucks. For the first time I registered at a different site to talk about the Knicks and I've been going there more often. I like a lot of posters here, but really some of the way y'all protect Phil and act like we can't criticize anything he's done... I mean... I dunno, whatever. The way you respond to the supposed "negativity" here is in fact negative in itself and creates a sort of toxic loop. It's not cool. I'll miss some of you dudes, but I won't miss the concern trolling of any negative thought I have about how Phil is doing his job.

Dude, I just said something similar, I just don't get it. I got killed for posting negative comments on fisher like I didn't know what I was talking about, and low and behold he gets fired, so obviously I knew something wasn't right.

Now I'm getting killed because I absolute think Rambis is the worse option as a head coach, and apparently I don't know what I'm talking about...LIKE WTF, it ridiculous.

There isn't a person on the planet(other then phil) that would pick rambis over any current available coach,, so why are they acting like what im saying is completely outrageous.

Your exagerating though. You have some valid concerns about wanting someone else over Rambis. Its clear what Phil wants. Which is someone to run the triangle who he can depend on and leave an open line of communication with him. Someone who will allow Phil to be hands on.

Phil doesn't want a coach to come in and tune Phil out. He isn't willing to risk that with some of these other coaches. If Phil believes that this will be the best way to establish a winning foundation then so be it. Its worth a shot since he has built up the credibility to be given this chance.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:one of the more touted players in EU. Read about the 4 attempts by his current team to extend him. Or just throw poop because he's a 2nd round Euro and that's enough info for you to work with. Seems like the only "facts" some can work with are the ones that come from Marc Berman

most knick fans are excited about willy actually

I agree. Just some grumpy guys with no info to add who seem to revel in pessimism and negativity. Guy is a touted prospect. Nobody is saying he's another KP, but a smart multi skilled bigman? Good shot at a rotation player? I think its safe to project him as a rotation guy (career wise, not rookie). Question is will be an end of rotation bench guy or a starter/core player type? Maybe he's like Kyle OQuinn. Maybe he's like Marc Gasol. Time will tell. The intel however is very positive (if you actually choose to look at it)

This. I am tired of it. I'm all for differing opinions; add some meat into your opinion and we all enjoy the back and forth.

Willy was traded for 2 future round picks. Some have said if he was drafted this year he would go in the 20's, someone else's opinion.

Every pick from #1 on down can fail and fail spectacularly, we all know that.

If all you add is pessimism all the time, it turns into trolling and we all got better things to do.

We've all been Knicks fans for a loooooong time. We are all aware of the possible negatives. None of the pessimism is ground breaking stuff. The fans usually on the positive side tend to be the ones that don't care about being right or wrong. Only looking for reasons Y a player COULD work out or why a situation COULD work out in a positive manner. The ones that have more of a negative view tend to be fans that care more about being right or wrong. And if you choose the negative route odds are you will be more right then wrong since odds are always in the favor of the negative result.

I have a positive view of Hernangomez and KP and Grant and Wroten and I'm excited to see if they can improve and can sign players this summer. I like Rolo and Melo and DWill and even kinda like Afflalo sometimes.

That said, can't I still be pissed off about the coaching search and the way it is being handled? The only other time I've been very outspokenly negative was about the way the Jeremy Lin situation was handled. I was roasted then for my "constant negativity" and for suggesting that Melo didn't want him back when I couldn't possibly know - then ESPN reported a few months later that Melo wanted no part of Lin and that was part of why Lin wasn't brought back. I'm getting the same **** now when it is obvious there's a power struggle between Melo and Phil over who the head coach will be - and frankly that's ****ing interesting to talk about. I left the board for over a year before when the Lin **** went down, I'm on the verge of leaving again.

Being able to talk about the team means being able to praise the stuff you like and bitch about the stuff that pisses you off. It doesn't matter in the end, none of it matters, it's ****ing sports and entertainment. But you're allowed to get pissed off about sports and entertainment, no? I respect a lot of guys here, but really some of you "positive" fans are just as stubborn and repetitive and say the same **** with no evidence as some of the so called "negative" ones. The way you dudes gang up on anyone who expresses a view that all is not well and something may be going on behind the scenes to cause it... it just kinda sucks. For the first time I registered at a different site to talk about the Knicks and I've been going there more often. I like a lot of posters here, but really some of the way y'all protect Phil and act like we can't criticize anything he's done... I mean... I dunno, whatever. The way you respond to the supposed "negativity" here is in fact negative in itself and creates a sort of toxic loop. It's not cool. I'll miss some of you dudes, but I won't miss the concern trolling of any negative thought I have about how Phil is doing his job.

Dude, I just said something similar, I just don't get it. I got killed for posting negative comments on fisher like I didn't know what I was talking about, and low and behold he gets fired, so obviously I knew something wasn't right.

Now I'm getting killed because I absolute think Rambis is the worse option as a head coach, and apparently I don't know what I'm talking about...LIKE WTF, it ridiculous.

There isn't a person on the planet(other then phil) that would pick rambis over any current available coach,, so why are they acting like what im saying is completely outrageous.

Your exagerating though. You have some valid concerns about wanting someone else over Rambis. Its clear what Phil wants. Which is someone to run the triangle who he can depend on and leave an open line of communication with him. Someone who will allow Phil to be hands on.

Phil doesn't want a coach to come in and tune Phil out. He isn't willing to risk that with some of these other coaches. If Phil believes that this will be the best way to establish a winning foundation then so be it. Its worth a shot since he has built up the credibility to be given this chance.

I agree with this, but phils actions screams of his lack of trust in giving rambis the position, or else it would have been done already. He is hesitant to give a guy a position that he's known for over 20 yrs, and worked with for over 10..If that's not red flags, what else is