crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If Phil had been allowed to hire Rambis and install his Triangle culture as he wanted, I think Rambis would have been named the coach by now.

Instead we have this mysterious vacation. The vacation came AFTER the Triangle Seminar

I don't think Rambis will be the coach, one way or the other. I think he'll certainly be on the coaching STAFF, though not as head coach. I think the team may run the Triangle offense, with Kurt serving as Tex Winter 2.

But I think the vacation and Phil mulling the coaching move will mean a different head coach once the silence is broken.

I think maybe Blatt, maybe Vogel, maybe Phil himself.

Time will tell.

Rambis didn't knock it out of the park as the head coach and so that made Phil have to pause and look at other options. The only thing stopping Phil from hiring Rambis is Phil. It's Phil's decision to make and I think as he always does, Phil is taking his time to really weigh the plus and minus of Rambis verses Vogel, Blatt etc.

and the cons out weigh the pros.

you want(we all want to believe) that since phil inherited 2 very good talented rosters and won 11 rings, that he has the ability to build a championship team. Phil knows what mind set, and what kind of team needed, but that's far from having the ability to put a team together from scratch, then find the right coach that's going to be 99% on the same page.

How does it look to overlook rambis and hire fisher who had zero experience, fire fisher 16 months later, let rambis finish the season in dreadful fashion, boot him out of the exit meetings, interview more qualified candidates, wait a month and then hire rambis anyway.

you know how retarded that looks, to the media, fans, and free agents.

I forgot about Rambis being kept out of the exit interviews with Phil and Mills.

Good catch.

That to me is another signal that whether Phil wants Rambis back or not - Mills (and his boss) are far more skeptical.

Really? I took at as Rambis was not super impressive and that Phil wanted players to talk candidly about Rambis. They probably don't do that if Rambis is sitting next to Phil asking them questions and telling them what to work on in the offseason. I am really surprised that you don't think the coaching hire is Phil's call.

Phil stipulated in his deal that Dolan not interfere and he be given final say in basketball matters. If Dolan was back involved Phil would walk.

Dolan already stepped in before about the medical staff. Are you sure that Jimmer Fredette was a Phil move and not a Mills one? We really don't know.

I think Phil very publicly taking a vacation at one of the most crucial junctures of the off-season may actually be his way of protesting.

I do not think all is rosy in Knicksland, as you seem to.

I disagree. I think you are trying to hard to find something that would indicate the Knicks are back to the same old stuff. In regards to Fredette, my thought was that it was to get him paid for being a W-Knick. He wasn't an assigned player like Thanasis, Atkins etc. so he didn't get the extra 75 grand to play in the d l.

He was brought up immediately after the Knicks whiffed at the trade deadline. Almost a fan service move. Does that seem like something Phil would do?

It was also right after he had the huge game in the d league all star game where he won mvp. Who did Phil whiff on? Teague?

If my memory is correct, he whiffed on every single move he tried to make and the Knicks did not make a trade, despite the fact they were desperately looking to upgrade the PG position.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If Phil had been allowed to hire Rambis and install his Triangle culture as he wanted, I think Rambis would have been named the coach by now.

Instead we have this mysterious vacation. The vacation came AFTER the Triangle Seminar

I don't think Rambis will be the coach, one way or the other. I think he'll certainly be on the coaching STAFF, though not as head coach. I think the team may run the Triangle offense, with Kurt serving as Tex Winter 2.

But I think the vacation and Phil mulling the coaching move will mean a different head coach once the silence is broken.

I think maybe Blatt, maybe Vogel, maybe Phil himself.

Time will tell.

Rambis didn't knock it out of the park as the head coach and so that made Phil have to pause and look at other options. The only thing stopping Phil from hiring Rambis is Phil. It's Phil's decision to make and I think as he always does, Phil is taking his time to really weigh the plus and minus of Rambis verses Vogel, Blatt etc.

and the cons out weigh the pros.

you want(we all want to believe) that since phil inherited 2 very good talented rosters and won 11 rings, that he has the ability to build a championship team. Phil knows what mind set, and what kind of team needed, but that's far from having the ability to put a team together from scratch, then find the right coach that's going to be 99% on the same page.

How does it look to overlook rambis and hire fisher who had zero experience, fire fisher 16 months later, let rambis finish the season in dreadful fashion, boot him out of the exit meetings, interview more qualified candidates, wait a month and then hire rambis anyway.

you know how retarded that looks, to the media, fans, and free agents.

And please tell me how we'll ever know if Phil can build a championship team if he isn't given the chance to do it?? He's had ONE year of making additions to this team so either you think a championship team can be built in one year or you just don't want to give him the chance.

He's had two years of making additions to the team. The first year he traded Felton and Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert.

I love the rose colored lens for Phil.

Typical teams that tear things down to draft high and build from there reach .500 in years 3-5. How long do you think it takes to get there?

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If Phil had been allowed to hire Rambis and install his Triangle culture as he wanted, I think Rambis would have been named the coach by now.

Instead we have this mysterious vacation. The vacation came AFTER the Triangle Seminar

I don't think Rambis will be the coach, one way or the other. I think he'll certainly be on the coaching STAFF, though not as head coach. I think the team may run the Triangle offense, with Kurt serving as Tex Winter 2.

But I think the vacation and Phil mulling the coaching move will mean a different head coach once the silence is broken.

I think maybe Blatt, maybe Vogel, maybe Phil himself.

Time will tell.

Rambis didn't knock it out of the park as the head coach and so that made Phil have to pause and look at other options. The only thing stopping Phil from hiring Rambis is Phil. It's Phil's decision to make and I think as he always does, Phil is taking his time to really weigh the plus and minus of Rambis verses Vogel, Blatt etc.

and the cons out weigh the pros.

you want(we all want to believe) that since phil inherited 2 very good talented rosters and won 11 rings, that he has the ability to build a championship team. Phil knows what mind set, and what kind of team needed, but that's far from having the ability to put a team together from scratch, then find the right coach that's going to be 99% on the same page.

How does it look to overlook rambis and hire fisher who had zero experience, fire fisher 16 months later, let rambis finish the season in dreadful fashion, boot him out of the exit meetings, interview more qualified candidates, wait a month and then hire rambis anyway.

you know how retarded that looks, to the media, fans, and free agents.

And please tell me how we'll ever know if Phil can build a championship team if he isn't given the chance to do it?? He's had ONE year of making additions to this team so either you think a championship team can be built in one year or you just don't want to give him the chance.

He's had two years of making additions to the team. The first year he traded Felton and Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert.

I love the rose colored lens for Phil.

Typical teams that tear things down to draft high and build from there reach .500 in years 3-5. How long do you think it takes to get there?

The problem with Phil is that he didn't think he was tearing it down. He traded for Calderon and Dalembert, thinking he could make the playoffs. If he thought he was tearing it down, he could've traded Tyson for a first round pick.

This idea that Phil was tearing it down isn't legit until he waived the white flag and gave away Shumpert and JR Smith, who will be making their second straight appearance in the Finals as major rotation players, for absolutely nothing.

Maybe the reason the cupboard is so bare is that he gave away 4 of the Knicks top 6 rotation players for zero return.

And the Knicks weren't starting from zero even then - they had Carmelo Anthony, an all-star starter and top 20 player in the league at worst.

This idea that Phil is working magic on a complete rebuild is complete horse****. The Knicks won 54 games, had a season full of injuries and too much Bargnani and then Phil blew it up because he wanted to prove the validity of the Triangle.

I am not sure why you guys treat him like he's an angel. He's got an ego like any other human and he's made plenty of mistakes. He's not infallible. As evidenced by Fisher, as evidenced by Rambis, as evidenced by Afflalo.

crzymdups wrote:The problem with Phil is that he didn't think he was tearing it down. He traded for Calderon and Dalembert, thinking he could make the playoffs. If he thought he was tearing it down, he could've traded Tyson for a first round pick.

nixluva wrote:Look the Fisher thing was not as simple as it looks. There was a lot going on that necessitated a change. I'm not gonna get all bent out of shape over it. GM's/Prez make mistakes all the time but we tend to be harder on our own GM's/Prez than we are with other team's. Knicks made a LOT of progress and could've made more with better health. The holes in the roster are easily identifiable and it's not such a daunting challenge to figure out how to make the team better. We all know it's guards and Phil will have opportunity to improve that area. This is not a doom and gloom situation.

The coaching issue is taking a while and we know he's really torn about which direction he wants to go. He knows it's important. So I don't mind that he's not rushing into it.

I agree that the past . . . is past.

And that the situation today is pretty okay.

And that Jackson has to just get on with it.

As long as Jackson hasn't actually lost his judgment
(which I'm no longer giving the benefit of the doubt about) . . .

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If Phil had been allowed to hire Rambis and install his Triangle culture as he wanted, I think Rambis would have been named the coach by now.

Instead we have this mysterious vacation. The vacation came AFTER the Triangle Seminar

I don't think Rambis will be the coach, one way or the other. I think he'll certainly be on the coaching STAFF, though not as head coach. I think the team may run the Triangle offense, with Kurt serving as Tex Winter 2.

But I think the vacation and Phil mulling the coaching move will mean a different head coach once the silence is broken.

I think maybe Blatt, maybe Vogel, maybe Phil himself.

Time will tell.

Rambis didn't knock it out of the park as the head coach and so that made Phil have to pause and look at other options. The only thing stopping Phil from hiring Rambis is Phil. It's Phil's decision to make and I think as he always does, Phil is taking his time to really weigh the plus and minus of Rambis verses Vogel, Blatt etc.

and the cons out weigh the pros.

you want(we all want to believe) that since phil inherited 2 very good talented rosters and won 11 rings, that he has the ability to build a championship team. Phil knows what mind set, and what kind of team needed, but that's far from having the ability to put a team together from scratch, then find the right coach that's going to be 99% on the same page.

How does it look to overlook rambis and hire fisher who had zero experience, fire fisher 16 months later, let rambis finish the season in dreadful fashion, boot him out of the exit meetings, interview more qualified candidates, wait a month and then hire rambis anyway.

you know how retarded that looks, to the media, fans, and free agents.

And please tell me how we'll ever know if Phil can build a championship team if he isn't given the chance to do it?? He's had ONE year of making additions to this team so either you think a championship team can be built in one year or you just don't want to give him the chance.

He's had two years of making additions to the team. The first year he traded Felton and Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert.

I love the rose colored lens for Phil.

Typical teams that tear things down to draft high and build from there reach .500 in years 3-5. How long do you think it takes to get there?

The problem with Phil is that he didn't think he was tearing it down. He traded for Calderon and Dalembert, thinking he could make the playoffs. If he thought he was tearing it down, he could've traded Tyson for a first round pick.

This idea that Phil was tearing it down isn't legit until he waived the white flag and gave away Shumpert and JR Smith, who will be making their second straight appearance in the Finals as major rotation players, for absolutely nothing.

Maybe the reason the cupboard is so bare is that he gave away 4 of the Knicks top 6 rotation players for zero return.

And the Knicks weren't starting from zero even then - they had Carmelo Anthony, an all-star starter and top 20 player in the league at worst.

This idea that Phil is working magic on a complete rebuild is complete horse****. The Knicks won 54 games, had a season full of injuries and too much Bargnani and then Phil blew it up because he wanted to prove the validity of the Triangle.

I am not sure why you guys treat him like he's an angel. He's got an ego like any other human and he's made plenty of mistakes. He's not infallible. As evidenced by Fisher, as evidenced by Rambis, as evidenced by Afflalo.

You're spazzing out again. Where did I treat Phil like an angel? And where did I point out that Phil is working magic? And where did I suggest that Phil is infallible? No one has said any of these things.

And you are right on the timeline of things. Phil got rid of Chandler/Felton and took back Jose cause he thought he would be a good PG for his Triangle. Gave the remaining guys a looksy and decided they were trash and decided on rebuild. Kept his 1 asset in Melo, you don't just let that go in FA for nothing; he came with NTC.

And rebuild time. Great draft pick, some good to fair signing but nothing near HR on that front. When you build up you take 1-2 year fliers on dudes like DWill and AA and resign low level guys like Gallo and LT and Lou. LT has been the biggest boon, the other guys are eh. KOQ is bleh. TWroten has potential but a huge uphill. Grant trade was money but dude needs to grow. Rolo is a good to great signing depending on growth

Like that. You are under the impression that folks thing Phil is hitting HRs all the time, your bad.

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The problem with Phil is that he didn't think he was tearing it down. He traded for Calderon and Dalembert, thinking he could make the playoffs. If he thought he was tearing it down, he could've traded Tyson for a first round pick.

This is a reasonable criticism . . .

We all know Phil didn't come in saying this team is trash and i'm gonna back up the truck. He wanted to see which guys made sense to keep going forward. He said he wanted to see who the learners where and that once he saw enough he'd go from there. So then he made the trade that signaled he was flushing plan A and moving on to a rebuild. It's not Rocket Science! Is it really that wrong to to think Phil looked at the roster with JR and Shump and thought in the East this team should be able to make the playoffs??? It wasn't a hard ask. They were horrid and so going to plan B was the right thing to do.

but what happen to being patient?

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If Phil had been allowed to hire Rambis and install his Triangle culture as he wanted, I think Rambis would have been named the coach by now.

Instead we have this mysterious vacation. The vacation came AFTER the Triangle Seminar

I don't think Rambis will be the coach, one way or the other. I think he'll certainly be on the coaching STAFF, though not as head coach. I think the team may run the Triangle offense, with Kurt serving as Tex Winter 2.

But I think the vacation and Phil mulling the coaching move will mean a different head coach once the silence is broken.

I think maybe Blatt, maybe Vogel, maybe Phil himself.

Time will tell.

Rambis didn't knock it out of the park as the head coach and so that made Phil have to pause and look at other options. The only thing stopping Phil from hiring Rambis is Phil. It's Phil's decision to make and I think as he always does, Phil is taking his time to really weigh the plus and minus of Rambis verses Vogel, Blatt etc.

and the cons out weigh the pros.

you want(we all want to believe) that since phil inherited 2 very good talented rosters and won 11 rings, that he has the ability to build a championship team. Phil knows what mind set, and what kind of team needed, but that's far from having the ability to put a team together from scratch, then find the right coach that's going to be 99% on the same page.

How does it look to overlook rambis and hire fisher who had zero experience, fire fisher 16 months later, let rambis finish the season in dreadful fashion, boot him out of the exit meetings, interview more qualified candidates, wait a month and then hire rambis anyway.

you know how retarded that looks, to the media, fans, and free agents.

And please tell me how we'll ever know if Phil can build a championship team if he isn't given the chance to do it?? He's had ONE year of making additions to this team so either you think a championship team can be built in one year or you just don't want to give him the chance.

He's had two years of making additions to the team. The first year he traded Felton and Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert.

I love the rose colored lens for Phil.

Typical teams that tear things down to draft high and build from there reach .500 in years 3-5. How long do you think it takes to get there?

we should have been at 500 this past season

This is largely a .500 team that underachieved due to circumstances beyond coach Rambis or the team's control. This season had many exciting moments and a number of landmark games. Even if no bodies move this summer (unlikely), this team is on the cusp of lurching forward by 10 games assuming some healthy bodies and a restoration of lost inertia. Add a major player upgrade in both the starting unit and on the bench and things get interesting.

knicks1248 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The problem with Phil is that he didn't think he was tearing it down. He traded for Calderon and Dalembert, thinking he could make the playoffs. If he thought he was tearing it down, he could've traded Tyson for a first round pick.

This is a reasonable criticism . . .

We all know Phil didn't come in saying this team is trash and i'm gonna back up the truck. He wanted to see which guys made sense to keep going forward. He said he wanted to see who the learners where and that once he saw enough he'd go from there. So then he made the trade that signaled he was flushing plan A and moving on to a rebuild. It's not Rocket Science! Is it really that wrong to to think Phil looked at the roster with JR and Shump and thought in the East this team should be able to make the playoffs??? It wasn't a hard ask. They were horrid and so going to plan B was the right thing to do.

but what happen to being patient?

Phil didn't come in to be patient. He came in looking to assemble pieces for the long term. If that happened to coincide with starting from a low playoff berth all the better. But everyone flushed had been hanging around for years. And with an inability to adjust their attitudes, what's the point of being patient? - they might play when they want to?

because they wanted to be here, unlike the guys he wanted to retain for cheap (Jason, shved) who blew him off with his low ball offers..

Jason would have been better then KOQ, and shved better than sasha..

Slow down there. Fisher is the guy who didn't want Shved. KOQ looked solid the previous year. I was ecstatic he was signed. And he started strong. After sitting, he fizzled and again it might have been because of Fisher. Sasha was never intended to be a cornerstone player. The slow growth of Grant and Affalo's inconsistency has raised Sasha's profile in a silly way.

I, personally miss Aldrich - the most accessible of the bunch that are gone.