martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.

In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.

cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.

No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.

Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.

	                                                Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                   Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB% FT/FGA   eFG%	TOV%  DRB%  FT/FGA
1   Warriors* 15-16  27.4  65 17  10.76 -0.38 10.38	114.5	103.8	99.3	.250 .362 .593	.563	13.5 23.5 .191	   .479	12.6  76.0  .208	
2   Thunder*         25.8  59 23  7.28  -0.19  7.09	113.1	105.6	96.7	.292 .275 .565	.524	14.0 31.1 .228	   .484	11.7  76.0  .205	
3   Cavaliers*	     28.1  57 25  6.00  -0.55  5.45	110.9	104.5	93.3	.259 .352 .558	.524	12.7 25.1 .194	   .496	12.6  78.5  .205
4   Spurs*	     30.3  67 15  10.63 -0.36 10.28	110.3	99.0	93.8	.246 .223 .564	.526	12.4 23.0 .197	   .477	14.1  79.1  .182	
5   Raptors*	     26.3  53 29  4.50  -0.42  4.08	110.0	105.2	92.9	.328 .287 .552	.504	12.3 24.6 .255	   .498	12.7  77.7  .201
League Average	     26.8  41 41  0.00   0.00  0.00	106.4	106.4	95.8	.276 .285 .541	.502	13.2 23.8 .209	   .502	13.2  76.2  .209
		                                        Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                    Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB%  FT/FGA   eFG% TOV% DRB%  FT/FGA
6   Lakers*   10-11  30.2  58 24  6.11  -0.10  6.01	111.0	104.3	90.7	.293 .220 .545	.502	12.3 29.2  .228	   .477	12.8  72.3  .181
11  Lakers*   09-10  28.4  54 28  4.72   0.06  4.78	108.8	103.7	92.8	.289 .227 .538	.496	12.4 27.6  .221	   .484	13.2  74.4  .195
3   Lakers*   08-09  27.4  61 21  7.66  -0.55  7.11	112.8	104.7	94.3	.299 .217 .555	.513	12.3 29.4  .230	   .490	14.2  73.0  .213
3   Lakers*   07-08  26.7  59 23  7.26   0.09  7.34	113.0	105.5	95.6	.333 .257 .570	.525	12.9 26.3  .256	   .485	12.9  73.4  .214

Interesting stuff

Phil is looking for a way to play that is realistic for this team to achieve and be ready to compete in the regular season and post season. It's clear why he wants Jerian and is taking a look at Wroten. You have to have the penetrating big guards that can drive and kick in this system. Not to mention being able to defend the guards in this league and make the court smaller with their size and length. With quicker and longer guards he can defend and funnel opposition guards into our bigs and take away the 3, PnR and stuff at the rim.

Also having big attacking guards will force other team's guards to have to work on D and commit more fouls trying to stop our guards from getting into the paint. The more guard talent Phil can add this summer the better. I like Bazemore because of his size and 2 way game. Baze even passes the ball. Allen Crabbe, Fournier and Beal are other guys I can see Phil targeting due to youth and upside.

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.

In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.

cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.

No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.

Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.

	                                                Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                   Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB% FT/FGA   eFG%	TOV%  DRB%  FT/FGA
1   Warriors* 15-16  27.4  65 17  10.76 -0.38 10.38	114.5	103.8	99.3	.250 .362 .593	.563	13.5 23.5 .191	   .479	12.6  76.0  .208	
2   Thunder*         25.8  59 23  7.28  -0.19  7.09	113.1	105.6	96.7	.292 .275 .565	.524	14.0 31.1 .228	   .484	11.7  76.0  .205	
3   Cavaliers*	     28.1  57 25  6.00  -0.55  5.45	110.9	104.5	93.3	.259 .352 .558	.524	12.7 25.1 .194	   .496	12.6  78.5  .205
4   Spurs*	     30.3  67 15  10.63 -0.36 10.28	110.3	99.0	93.8	.246 .223 .564	.526	12.4 23.0 .197	   .477	14.1  79.1  .182	
5   Raptors*	     26.3  53 29  4.50  -0.42  4.08	110.0	105.2	92.9	.328 .287 .552	.504	12.3 24.6 .255	   .498	12.7  77.7  .201
League Average	     26.8  41 41  0.00   0.00  0.00	106.4	106.4	95.8	.276 .285 .541	.502	13.2 23.8 .209	   .502	13.2  76.2  .209
		                                        Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                    Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB%  FT/FGA   eFG% TOV% DRB%  FT/FGA
6   Lakers*   10-11  30.2  58 24  6.11  -0.10  6.01	111.0	104.3	90.7	.293 .220 .545	.502	12.3 29.2  .228	   .477	12.8  72.3  .181
11  Lakers*   09-10  28.4  54 28  4.72   0.06  4.78	108.8	103.7	92.8	.289 .227 .538	.496	12.4 27.6  .221	   .484	13.2  74.4  .195
3   Lakers*   08-09  27.4  61 21  7.66  -0.55  7.11	112.8	104.7	94.3	.299 .217 .555	.513	12.3 29.4  .230	   .490	14.2  73.0  .213
3   Lakers*   07-08  26.7  59 23  7.26   0.09  7.34	113.0	105.5	95.6	.333 .257 .570	.525	12.9 26.3  .256	   .485	12.9  73.4  .214

Interesting stuff

Thanks. I found it very interesting and it looks clear to me that it's not a slam dunk that the "modern offenses" are so much superior. The Warriors are superior and I think that warps the view people have. Sure they're a great team and have a great style of play, but how realistic is it that you can collect the specific talent they have?

Phil is looking for a way to play that is realistic for this team to achieve and be ready to compete in the regular season and post season. It's clear why he wants Jerian and is taking a look at Wroten. You have to have the penetrating big guards that can drive and kick in this system. Not to mention being able to defend the guards in this league and make the court smaller with their size and length. With quicker and longer guards he can defend and funnel opposition guards into our bigs and take away the 3, PnR and stuff at the rim.

Also having big attacking guards will force other team's guards to have to work on D and commit more fouls trying to stop our guards from getting into the paint. The more guard talent Phil can add this summer the better. I like Bazemore because of his size and 2 way game. Baze even passes the ball. Allen Crabbe, Fournier and Beal are other guys I can see Phil targeting due to youth and upside.

If you could, please also post the URL to your data, it's always helpful.

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.

In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.

cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.

No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.

Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.

	                                                Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                   Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB% FT/FGA   eFG%	TOV%  DRB%  FT/FGA
1   Warriors* 15-16  27.4  65 17  10.76 -0.38 10.38	114.5	103.8	99.3	.250 .362 .593	.563	13.5 23.5 .191	   .479	12.6  76.0  .208	
2   Thunder*         25.8  59 23  7.28  -0.19  7.09	113.1	105.6	96.7	.292 .275 .565	.524	14.0 31.1 .228	   .484	11.7  76.0  .205	
3   Cavaliers*	     28.1  57 25  6.00  -0.55  5.45	110.9	104.5	93.3	.259 .352 .558	.524	12.7 25.1 .194	   .496	12.6  78.5  .205
4   Spurs*	     30.3  67 15  10.63 -0.36 10.28	110.3	99.0	93.8	.246 .223 .564	.526	12.4 23.0 .197	   .477	14.1  79.1  .182	
5   Raptors*	     26.3  53 29  4.50  -0.42  4.08	110.0	105.2	92.9	.328 .287 .552	.504	12.3 24.6 .255	   .498	12.7  77.7  .201
League Average	     26.8  41 41  0.00   0.00  0.00	106.4	106.4	95.8	.276 .285 .541	.502	13.2 23.8 .209	   .502	13.2  76.2  .209
		                                        Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                    Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB%  FT/FGA   eFG% TOV% DRB%  FT/FGA
6   Lakers*   10-11  30.2  58 24  6.11  -0.10  6.01	111.0	104.3	90.7	.293 .220 .545	.502	12.3 29.2  .228	   .477	12.8  72.3  .181
11  Lakers*   09-10  28.4  54 28  4.72   0.06  4.78	108.8	103.7	92.8	.289 .227 .538	.496	12.4 27.6  .221	   .484	13.2  74.4  .195
3   Lakers*   08-09  27.4  61 21  7.66  -0.55  7.11	112.8	104.7	94.3	.299 .217 .555	.513	12.3 29.4  .230	   .490	14.2  73.0  .213
3   Lakers*   07-08  26.7  59 23  7.26   0.09  7.34	113.0	105.5	95.6	.333 .257 .570	.525	12.9 26.3  .256	   .485	12.9  73.4  .214

Interesting stuff

Thanks. I found it very interesting and it looks clear to me that it's not a slam dunk that the "modern offenses" are so much superior. The Warriors are superior and I think that warps the view people have. Sure they're a great team and have a great style of play, but how realistic is it that you can collect the specific talent they have?

Phil is looking for a way to play that is realistic for this team to achieve and be ready to compete in the regular season and post season. It's clear why he wants Jerian and is taking a look at Wroten. You have to have the penetrating big guards that can drive and kick in this system. Not to mention being able to defend the guards in this league and make the court smaller with their size and length. With quicker and longer guards he can defend and funnel opposition guards into our bigs and take away the 3, PnR and stuff at the rim.

Also having big attacking guards will force other team's guards to have to work on D and commit more fouls trying to stop our guards from getting into the paint. The more guard talent Phil can add this summer the better. I like Bazemore because of his size and 2 way game. Baze even passes the ball. Allen Crabbe, Fournier and Beal are other guys I can see Phil targeting due to youth and upside.

If you could, please also post the URL to your data, it's always helpful.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.

In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.

cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.

No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.

Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.

	                                                Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                   Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB% FT/FGA   eFG%	TOV%  DRB%  FT/FGA
1   Warriors* 15-16  27.4  65 17  10.76 -0.38 10.38	114.5	103.8	99.3	.250 .362 .593	.563	13.5 23.5 .191	   .479	12.6  76.0  .208	
2   Thunder*         25.8  59 23  7.28  -0.19  7.09	113.1	105.6	96.7	.292 .275 .565	.524	14.0 31.1 .228	   .484	11.7  76.0  .205	
3   Cavaliers*	     28.1  57 25  6.00  -0.55  5.45	110.9	104.5	93.3	.259 .352 .558	.524	12.7 25.1 .194	   .496	12.6  78.5  .205
4   Spurs*	     30.3  67 15  10.63 -0.36 10.28	110.3	99.0	93.8	.246 .223 .564	.526	12.4 23.0 .197	   .477	14.1  79.1  .182	
5   Raptors*	     26.3  53 29  4.50  -0.42  4.08	110.0	105.2	92.9	.328 .287 .552	.504	12.3 24.6 .255	   .498	12.7  77.7  .201
League Average	     26.8  41 41  0.00   0.00  0.00	106.4	106.4	95.8	.276 .285 .541	.502	13.2 23.8 .209	   .502	13.2  76.2  .209
		                                        Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                    Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB%  FT/FGA   eFG% TOV% DRB%  FT/FGA
6   Lakers*   10-11  30.2  58 24  6.11  -0.10  6.01	111.0	104.3	90.7	.293 .220 .545	.502	12.3 29.2  .228	   .477	12.8  72.3  .181
11  Lakers*   09-10  28.4  54 28  4.72   0.06  4.78	108.8	103.7	92.8	.289 .227 .538	.496	12.4 27.6  .221	   .484	13.2  74.4  .195
3   Lakers*   08-09  27.4  61 21  7.66  -0.55  7.11	112.8	104.7	94.3	.299 .217 .555	.513	12.3 29.4  .230	   .490	14.2  73.0  .213
3   Lakers*   07-08  26.7  59 23  7.26   0.09  7.34	113.0	105.5	95.6	.333 .257 .570	.525	12.9 26.3  .256	   .485	12.9  73.4  .214

You compared 5 teams to 1 team. One of your main issues is that you don't really have enough data since the triangle was only used with 3 great teams (its all about the talent right?). Therefore, your data is obscenely tainted before you start.

And, what are you measuring on in your table? ORtg or the shooting efficiency stats like TS and EFG? If you are using ORtg, does it count offensive rebounds as separate possessions?

Do you think that this statistical conclusion based on your data that you presented would hold up as an actual mathematical argument to show the triangle's efficiency against other offensive styles?

Lets take Cleveland who plays pretty modern ball ... how do you compare that team against the 3 triangle teams? Where would it rank talent wise?

All top teams have talent. It's not easy to build a Title Contending team. Phil has chosen to base this Knicks team off what he knows it takes to run his chosen system. It just makes things clearer for him in terms of the type of players he's looking for. By any measure his last Lakers team is a valid model to shoot for. They had a nice run and he has it fresh in mind what elements he's looking for. We have different players than he had then but they don't have to match perfectly. As long as the skill sets are close enough.

EnySpree wrote:

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.

the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.

That's my point entirely. The spurs had 3 pt shooters around their stars. Tony Parker stirred the drink for a decade. Even now that his scoring is down. Things are still funneled through him. His activity opens everything for everyone else. The Knicks front court is can compete with the Spurs right now.... Grant and Wroten can stir our drink.... Grant can be our Tony Parker while Wroten Is the Manu Gionobili. If you are crying about a shooter, Eric Gordon would be fantastic starting with Grant. Wroten being a super six man

bonkers

our front line cannot compete with SA's, are you phucking drunk? and grant will never ever ever EVER be close to Tony Parker and Fukking Wroten? Who the phuck is wronten? and this garbage man is going to be our Manu?

You need to take a couple of tylenol and go back and sleep it off.

You can make jokes if you want to wallow in your own filth. Instead I'll paint a picture of possibilities....

LaMarcus Aldridge is what we want KP to become. KP is already the better defender.
Melo and Leonard are basically a wash offensively...Melo isn't the stopper Leonard is but he's upgraded himself to being a decent NBA defender.
Rolo 2016 is very close to Duncan 2016.
Grants skill set is very similar to Parker. Parker has had a great career and Grant is just starting his. The potential is there.
Wroten is a wild undisciplined ball handler that can't be stopped from getting to the rim. Pops put Manu on the bench. Wroten might find himself there too. He's already proven he can score in this league whether you wanna believe your eyes or not

Bye Felicia

This is true

Now try comparing the IQ's..and you'll be off by a lot

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.

In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.

cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.

No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.

Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.

	                                                Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                   Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB% FT/FGA   eFG%	TOV%  DRB%  FT/FGA
1   Warriors* 15-16  27.4  65 17  10.76 -0.38 10.38	114.5	103.8	99.3	.250 .362 .593	.563	13.5 23.5 .191	   .479	12.6  76.0  .208	
2   Thunder*         25.8  59 23  7.28  -0.19  7.09	113.1	105.6	96.7	.292 .275 .565	.524	14.0 31.1 .228	   .484	11.7  76.0  .205	
3   Cavaliers*	     28.1  57 25  6.00  -0.55  5.45	110.9	104.5	93.3	.259 .352 .558	.524	12.7 25.1 .194	   .496	12.6  78.5  .205
4   Spurs*	     30.3  67 15  10.63 -0.36 10.28	110.3	99.0	93.8	.246 .223 .564	.526	12.4 23.0 .197	   .477	14.1  79.1  .182	
5   Raptors*	     26.3  53 29  4.50  -0.42  4.08	110.0	105.2	92.9	.328 .287 .552	.504	12.3 24.6 .255	   .498	12.7  77.7  .201
League Average	     26.8  41 41  0.00   0.00  0.00	106.4	106.4	95.8	.276 .285 .541	.502	13.2 23.8 .209	   .502	13.2  76.2  .209
		                                        Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                    Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB%  FT/FGA   eFG% TOV% DRB%  FT/FGA
6   Lakers*   10-11  30.2  58 24  6.11  -0.10  6.01	111.0	104.3	90.7	.293 .220 .545	.502	12.3 29.2  .228	   .477	12.8  72.3  .181
11  Lakers*   09-10  28.4  54 28  4.72   0.06  4.78	108.8	103.7	92.8	.289 .227 .538	.496	12.4 27.6  .221	   .484	13.2  74.4  .195
3   Lakers*   08-09  27.4  61 21  7.66  -0.55  7.11	112.8	104.7	94.3	.299 .217 .555	.513	12.3 29.4  .230	   .490	14.2  73.0  .213
3   Lakers*   07-08  26.7  59 23  7.26   0.09  7.34	113.0	105.5	95.6	.333 .257 .570	.525	12.9 26.3  .256	   .485	12.9  73.4  .214

You compared 5 teams to 1 team. One of your main issues is that you don't really have enough data since the triangle was only used with 3 great teams (its all about the talent right?). Therefore, your data is obscenely tainted before you start.

And, what are you measuring on in your table? ORtg or the shooting efficiency stats like TS and EFG? If you are using ORtg, does it count offensive rebounds as separate possessions?

Do you think that this statistical conclusion based on your data that you presented would hold up as an actual mathematical argument to show the triangle's efficiency against other offensive styles?

Lets take Cleveland who plays pretty modern ball ... how do you compare that team against the 3 triangle teams? Where would it rank talent wise?

I'm not sure what you're really asking here. If you want to go deeper into the weeds on this be my guest. You can look at the performance of these teams and draw a pretty general conclusion that Phil's teams would be competitive today running what they ran. The point is that there is more than one way to play efficient ball. Phil's teams were never #1 in offensive efficiency. They were clearly good enough to get to the Finals tho.

All top teams have talent. It's not easy to build a Title Contending team. Phil has chosen to base this Knicks team off what he knows it takes to run his chosen system. It just makes things clearer for him in terms of the type of players he's looking for. By any measure his last Lakers team is a valid model to shoot for. They had a nice run and he has it fresh in mind what elements he's looking for. We have different players than he had then but they don't have to match perfectly. As long as the skill sets are close enough.

I respectfully asked you some valid questions and you just ran away and refused to address any of them.

I respect you enough to think that you were able understand what I asked.

meloshouldgo wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.

the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.

That's my point entirely. The spurs had 3 pt shooters around their stars. Tony Parker stirred the drink for a decade. Even now that his scoring is down. Things are still funneled through him. His activity opens everything for everyone else. The Knicks front court is can compete with the Spurs right now.... Grant and Wroten can stir our drink.... Grant can be our Tony Parker while Wroten Is the Manu Gionobili. If you are crying about a shooter, Eric Gordon would be fantastic starting with Grant. Wroten being a super six man

bonkers

our front line cannot compete with SA's, are you phucking drunk? and grant will never ever ever EVER be close to Tony Parker and Fukking Wroten? Who the phuck is wronten? and this garbage man is going to be our Manu?

You need to take a couple of tylenol and go back and sleep it off.

You can make jokes if you want to wallow in your own filth. Instead I'll paint a picture of possibilities....

LaMarcus Aldridge is what we want KP to become. KP is already the better defender.
Melo and Leonard are basically a wash offensively...Melo isn't the stopper Leonard is but he's upgraded himself to being a decent NBA defender.
Rolo 2016 is very close to Duncan 2016.
Grants skill set is very similar to Parker. Parker has had a great career and Grant is just starting his. The potential is there.
Wroten is a wild undisciplined ball handler that can't be stopped from getting to the rim. Pops put Manu on the bench. Wroten might find himself there too. He's already proven he can score in this league whether you wanna believe your eyes or not

Bye Felicia

KP will be a better player than Aldridge
Leonard is right now is a better player than Melo (He is an efficient scorer and an elite defender, Melo is not and not)
Rolo can't even scratch the surface of Duncan's experience, leadership and championship caliber
Are you seriously comparing Grant to Tony Parker? Parker maybe old but he can still take over and dominate a playoff game against top tier defenses. His experience, court vision and understanding of the game is something Jerian Grant can only aspire to.
I won't even bother to address the Wroten/Manu G comparison

The important thing is to understand how those players fit and play as team, their IQ level and their championship pedigree. This is a pretty shallow comparison.

2 of our players just finished their rookie seasons! It's not that our players can match the exact same level of play right now but rather that they have the base skills to eventually give this team the needed ingredients to succeed in their given roles.

I agree that our players have to develop their skills and BBall IQ. The Knicks are still building this thing up. Most of this current roster has only been here 1 to 1.5 seasons!!! People seem to forget that when judging this team. We're gonna need more time than that to see what this team is gonna become.