fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Phil has run the triangle at least 4-5 different ways over his career. He's adjusted to his personal. It's ignorant to suggest otherwise. He's won 11 championships. More than any coach in history. He's beat all of the great coaches out there countless times.

It amazes me how NY Media and some fans can talk crap about people who have accomplished so much. We were DYING for a legit Basketball mind and someone who has won in the NBA. Soon as we get that man after just 2 seasons people are ready to run him out on a rail. Don't even let him finish what he's started. NO, just complain as loud as possible until he quits or Dolan decides to fire him. If that happens, then what? It only sets the franchise back again.

it amazed you (over and over and over again) how fans and the media picked the knicks to win so few games. You should stopped being so amazed and perhaps understand that there is another side to an argument / position (minimally).

you think they were picked to win 35ish games because they run the triangle and teams cant win that system? Or do you think they picked a low win total because of the roster and the talent on it? Or if its a combo of both Im curious how you weight it... say we stink 80% because of the system and 20% because of the players. Something like that?

we stink cause we have sh1tty players mostly and because we have done a week job so far developing and locking up young players. Its a five year process so he has time to right the ship. Lets see how he does. I have mixed confidence in him.

I half agree. Not sure why you are down on the development part. Certainly Phil has shown a commitment to adding young players and developing them. I get that none have been spectacular after KP, but the commitment is there. LG, Grant, Early, Thanasis... I don't expect them all to be rotation players but a couple will. KOQ and DWill are two FAs signed at 24 years old. Certainly time will tell but there is clear commitment to get younger and take long looks at young players. Something most around here have pined for for years.

Galloway is pretty awful, Grant has been awful, Early has been a complete no show, thanasis has basically got zero playing time with the squad to show if he is anything. Koq sucks - like really really sucks. Dwil is a FA. This is not a pretty picture for our youth development.

LT our only bright spot is not locked up ... again not pretty

there's only one way this will be resolved and that's a championship during Phil's 5 year contract. I think even if he does win, guys will still have **** to say about the job he's done.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Phil has run the triangle at least 4-5 different ways over his career. He's adjusted to his personal. It's ignorant to suggest otherwise. He's won 11 championships. More than any coach in history. He's beat all of the great coaches out there countless times.

It amazes me how NY Media and some fans can talk crap about people who have accomplished so much. We were DYING for a legit Basketball mind and someone who has won in the NBA. Soon as we get that man after just 2 seasons people are ready to run him out on a rail. Don't even let him finish what he's started. NO, just complain as loud as possible until he quits or Dolan decides to fire him. If that happens, then what? It only sets the franchise back again.

it amazed you (over and over and over again) how fans and the media picked the knicks to win so few games. You should stopped being so amazed and perhaps understand that there is another side to an argument / position (minimally).

That's right, go right for the Nixluva season prediction angle. Cuz that'll prove your own points. Never mind whether it's really relevant to the points being made or not. My season predictions have NOTHING to do with the point I was making. How about you explain how Fans and Media bashing Phil and asking for Dolan to interfere is gonna help this team develop into a winner? That's the point I was making.

The Knicks roster was improved last summer and will be addressed again this summer. We'll also see more development of the in house talent. The coaching situation will be addressed as well. Let's see what actually happens.

it very much has to do with your predictions and outlook ... you keep questioning others who don't agree with you and you are so bewildered yet when this has often happened before, you did the same thing and you were wrong. Why not learn from that and stop questioning everyone who does not agree with you as if they are idiots.

I definitely see a valid argument for sticking with phil and what he does through thick and thin, I just don't agree with it (at least many aspects of it) but that does not make one who takes the pro phil stance an idiot. They just have another view.

Talking about me and my season predictions doesn't help to prove your points in any way. It merely gives you a way of changing the subject and attack me personally, but your argument hasn't been supported in any way.

Case in point is that i'm not questioning others based on agreeing with me. I'm questioning others based on what PHIL HAS ACTUALLY DONE and not some fantasy of what they think he's done. What the Time Frame has actually been and not some imagined Time Frame. For example Phil has not been here for 3 years! He's been here for 2 seasons. Last summer he added 8 new players and 3 players came on board at the midway point in his 1st season, after he made the Shump and JR trade. So 11 players have been here for all of one to 1.5 seasons. That's the majority of his roster building so far.

No one is saying Phil is infallible. It's not about supporting everything he does no matter what. These are just baseless charges you and others keep making because some of us are challenging your points of negativity towards Phil. We haven't even gotten to the draft or Free Agency yet so it's pretty premature to be bashing the man after such a short amount of time spent building the team. I notice that you're making an effort to sound less strident and harsh in your recent statements. Others are not being so gentle towards Phil or this team.

I believe that the job he has done so far deserves bashing. Nobody can predict the future and what he has up his sleeve for the summer. I assume that based on his own statements and obvious sentiment around the league that he/us is/are very unattractive.

You make it as if we are judging his final product. Of course that is silly because he is still here and under contract. There is a mutual out after next season, lets see what happens. Odds are very much against him but of course he can shock us. He is unpredictable. For starters, I would suggest that he start being a bit more open minded. As much success as he has had, he is still and older person and older people no matter how great they are have a hard time adjusting to new ideas and concepts. He is still human.

I think that an old super coder is still a good though not perfect analogy.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?

really? GS and SA are running THEIR system. Does Pop deviate from his system? Does Pop half coach it? Does Pop say if your struggling lets just forget it and run a 2man P&R because that was easy for you in college? No.. Pop and SA run THEIR offense THEIR way. Phil Jackson wants to run the system the way he wants it run, not half, not with this wrinkle or that, his way. When you win 11 rings aren't you entitled to go with what works?. Is that so hard to grasp?

just ask Lamarcus Aldridge. Once you buy in, it's a beautiful thing to watch.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Practice is where Phil works best. For the first time in 2 years, Knicks will actually learn the triangle in training camp. That's key.

Interesting.

It is. I have talked with friends that are huge hoops fans but not Knick fans that think Phil wants to coach but can't travel. Rambis gives him that chance. I am not a fan of Rambis but Phil running practice certainly makes the idea of his being coach easier to take.

If you hire kurt, you gotta empower the guy. Pjack runs practice, while kurt helps could devolve into players not really caring what kurt has to say.

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Practice is where Phil works best. For the first time in 2 years, Knicks will actually learn the triangle in training camp. That's key.

Interesting.

It is. I have talked with friends that are huge hoops fans but not Knick fans that think Phil wants to coach but can't travel. Rambis gives him that chance. I am not a fan of Rambis but Phil running practice certainly makes the idea of his being coach easier to take.

If you hire kurt, you gotta empower the guy. Pjack runs practice, while kurt helps could devolve into players not really caring what kurt has to say.

they will never really care especially if melo has no respect for him.

they may not. if pjack does hire kr, the knicks do not need some oddball hybrid spoelstra/blatt situation where the coach gets tuned out cept in this case it wouldnt be lbj leading the charge -- pjack running certain aspects of the coach job while kr does others? that just seems like a poor way to go. i do not want kr, however if thats the deal, you gotta try and have this be more like spoelstra/riley than blatt/lbj.

meloshouldgo wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Practice is where Phil works best. For the first time in 2 years, Knicks will actually learn the triangle in training camp. That's key.

Interesting.

It is. I have talked with friends that are huge hoops fans but not Knick fans that think Phil wants to coach but can't travel. Rambis gives him that chance. I am not a fan of Rambis but Phil running practice certainly makes the idea of his being coach easier to take.

If you hire kurt, you gotta empower the guy. Pjack runs practice, while kurt helps could devolve into players not really caring what kurt has to say.

they will never really care especially if melo has no respect for him.

they may not. if pjack does hire kr, the knicks do not need some oddball hybrid spoelstra/blatt situation where the coach gets tuned out cept in this case it wouldnt be lbj leading the charge -- pjack running certain aspects of the coach job while kr does others? that just seems like a poor way to go. i do not want kr, however if thats the deal, you gotta try and have this be more like spoelstra/riley than blatt/lbj.

A poor way to go that produced two chips for the Heat

the potential of pjack doing certain things a coach would do while still letting kr be the coach is not fully like the heat situation. that is why i called it an oddball hybrid. there are some possible similarities, mostly in that you have a coach who could be on edge of losing his voice/authority/empowerment to his players. with the heat, riley could say NO to lbj pushing to get spoelstra smoked. spoelstra was still running the show from a coach stand point, and the FO gave him power. the knicks going a split coach responsibility route seems like a non starter to me, you potentially cut kr's power/authority from the start. really do not see it happening.

nixluva wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Practice is where Phil works best. For the first time in 2 years, Knicks will actually learn the triangle in training camp. That's key.

Interesting.

It is. I have talked with friends that are huge hoops fans but not Knick fans that think Phil wants to coach but can't travel. Rambis gives him that chance. I am not a fan of Rambis but Phil running practice certainly makes the idea of his being coach easier to take.

If you hire kurt, you gotta empower the guy. Pjack runs practice, while kurt helps could devolve into players not really caring what kurt has to say.

they will never really care especially if melo has no respect for him.

they may not. if pjack does hire kr, the knicks do not need some oddball hybrid spoelstra/blatt situation where the coach gets tuned out cept in this case it wouldnt be lbj leading the charge -- pjack running certain aspects of the coach job while kr does others? that just seems like a poor way to go. i do not want kr, however if thats the deal, you gotta try and have this be more like spoelstra/riley than blatt/lbj.

A poor way to go that produced two chips for the Heat

the potential of pjack doing certain things a coach would do while still letting kr be the coach is not fully like the heat situation. that is why i called it an oddball hybrid. there are some possible similarities, mostly in that you have a coach who could be on edge of losing his voice/authority/empowerment to his players. with the heat, riley could say NO to lbj pushing to get spoelstra smoked. spoelstra was still running the show from a coach stand point, and the FO gave him power. the knicks going a split coach responsibility route seems like a non starter to me, you potentially cut kr's power/authority from the start. really do not see it happening.

Only thing I would say is that Rambis was Phil's assistant for years and they both had a voice with the Lakers teams. You think the players didn't respect Rambis? Rambis was the one that ran the defense for Phil. It's a pretty big deal that both of them have worked together successfully over the years. They know how to do this! If it did end up with Rambis being the Head Coach and Phil helping, I don't see any conflicts. I'm pretty sure that may have been part of the deal with the Triangle Seminar. The players will develop a comfort level with that kind of arrangement.

I'm not sure I read this tweet as saying Phil is going to run practice:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lazenby/status/723526117467009024

Maybe this is alluding to Phil helping with training camp and being more present throughout. I think this is a continuation of the narrative that the failure of the last two years wasn't the triangle, it was D Fisher's failure to teach & fully embrace the triangle.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Phil has run the triangle at least 4-5 different ways over his career. He's adjusted to his personal. It's ignorant to suggest otherwise. He's won 11 championships. More than any coach in history. He's beat all of the great coaches out there countless times.

It amazes me how NY Media and some fans can talk crap about people who have accomplished so much. We were DYING for a legit Basketball mind and someone who has won in the NBA. Soon as we get that man after just 2 seasons people are ready to run him out on a rail. Don't even let him finish what he's started. NO, just complain as loud as possible until he quits or Dolan decides to fire him. If that happens, then what? It only sets the franchise back again.

it amazed you (over and over and over again) how fans and the media picked the knicks to win so few games. You should stopped being so amazed and perhaps understand that there is another side to an argument / position (minimally).

you think they were picked to win 35ish games because they run the triangle and teams cant win that system? Or do you think they picked a low win total because of the roster and the talent on it? Or if its a combo of both Im curious how you weight it... say we stink 80% because of the system and 20% because of the players. Something like that?

we stink cause we have sh1tty players mostly and because we have done a week job so far developing and locking up young players. Its a five year process so he has time to right the ship. Lets see how he does. I have mixed confidence in him.

I half agree. Not sure why you are down on the development part. Certainly Phil has shown a commitment to adding young players and developing them. I get that none have been spectacular after KP, but the commitment is there. LG, Grant, Early, Thanasis... I don't expect them all to be rotation players but a couple will. KOQ and DWill are two FAs signed at 24 years old. Certainly time will tell but there is clear commitment to get younger and take long looks at young players. Something most around here have pined for for years.

Galloway is pretty awful, Grant has been awful, Early has been a complete no show, thanasis has basically got zero playing time with the squad to show if he is anything. Koq sucks - like really really sucks. Dwil is a FA. This is not a pretty picture for our youth development.

LT our only bright spot is not locked up ... again not pretty

typical Knick fan... guy isn't a star in his rookie season so he sucks.

who are you talking about that I said "sucks"?

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Phil has run the triangle at least 4-5 different ways over his career. He's adjusted to his personal. It's ignorant to suggest otherwise. He's won 11 championships. More than any coach in history. He's beat all of the great coaches out there countless times.

It amazes me how NY Media and some fans can talk crap about people who have accomplished so much. We were DYING for a legit Basketball mind and someone who has won in the NBA. Soon as we get that man after just 2 seasons people are ready to run him out on a rail. Don't even let him finish what he's started. NO, just complain as loud as possible until he quits or Dolan decides to fire him. If that happens, then what? It only sets the franchise back again.

it amazed you (over and over and over again) how fans and the media picked the knicks to win so few games. You should stopped being so amazed and perhaps understand that there is another side to an argument / position (minimally).

you think they were picked to win 35ish games because they run the triangle and teams cant win that system? Or do you think they picked a low win total because of the roster and the talent on it? Or if its a combo of both Im curious how you weight it... say we stink 80% because of the system and 20% because of the players. Something like that?

we stink cause we have sh1tty players mostly and because we have done a week job so far developing and locking up young players. Its a five year process so he has time to right the ship. Lets see how he does. I have mixed confidence in him.

I half agree. Not sure why you are down on the development part. Certainly Phil has shown a commitment to adding young players and developing them. I get that none have been spectacular after KP, but the commitment is there. LG, Grant, Early, Thanasis... I don't expect them all to be rotation players but a couple will. KOQ and DWill are two FAs signed at 24 years old. Certainly time will tell but there is clear commitment to get younger and take long looks at young players. Something most around here have pined for for years.

Galloway is pretty awful, Grant has been awful, Early has been a complete no show, thanasis has basically got zero playing time with the squad to show if he is anything. Koq sucks - like really really sucks. Dwil is a FA. This is not a pretty picture for our youth development.

LT our only bright spot is not locked up ... again not pretty

typical Knick fan... guy isn't a star in his rookie season so he sucks.

who are you talking about that I said "sucks"?

all of em. None of these guys are getting better? Go on record now and tell me Thanasis, Early, Grant and Galloway wont be good rotation players in the league.

I really like early and have been holding out hope but not sure how much longer I can ... will still hope for this season and I really hope that he gets some significant PT to show if yay or nay.

Grant has some potential but he can easily bust if he can't develop a consistent shot and better decision making.

Koq sucks, its official!

thanasis, who knows ... we have not seen him.

Galloway had me really excited but I just don't think that he has what it takes. He can be some end of the bench value I guess.

Is this progress that you are happy with as far as development?

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Phil has run the triangle at least 4-5 different ways over his career. He's adjusted to his personal. It's ignorant to suggest otherwise. He's won 11 championships. More than any coach in history. He's beat all of the great coaches out there countless times.

It amazes me how NY Media and some fans can talk crap about people who have accomplished so much. We were DYING for a legit Basketball mind and someone who has won in the NBA. Soon as we get that man after just 2 seasons people are ready to run him out on a rail. Don't even let him finish what he's started. NO, just complain as loud as possible until he quits or Dolan decides to fire him. If that happens, then what? It only sets the franchise back again.

it amazed you (over and over and over again) how fans and the media picked the knicks to win so few games. You should stopped being so amazed and perhaps understand that there is another side to an argument / position (minimally).

you think they were picked to win 35ish games because they run the triangle and teams cant win that system? Or do you think they picked a low win total because of the roster and the talent on it? Or if its a combo of both Im curious how you weight it... say we stink 80% because of the system and 20% because of the players. Something like that?

we stink cause we have sh1tty players mostly and because we have done a week job so far developing and locking up young players. Its a five year process so he has time to right the ship. Lets see how he does. I have mixed confidence in him.

I half agree. Not sure why you are down on the development part. Certainly Phil has shown a commitment to adding young players and developing them. I get that none have been spectacular after KP, but the commitment is there. LG, Grant, Early, Thanasis... I don't expect them all to be rotation players but a couple will. KOQ and DWill are two FAs signed at 24 years old. Certainly time will tell but there is clear commitment to get younger and take long looks at young players. Something most around here have pined for for years.

Galloway is pretty awful, Grant has been awful, Early has been a complete no show, thanasis has basically got zero playing time with the squad to show if he is anything. Koq sucks - like really really sucks. Dwil is a FA. This is not a pretty picture for our youth development.

LT our only bright spot is not locked up ... again not pretty

typical Knick fan... guy isn't a star in his rookie season so he sucks.

who are you talking about that I said "sucks"?

Langston Galloway was undrafted. Its about expectations. He had a great rookie campaign and Phil commited to give him minutes. He did not develop further this year or he is lost in transition.
We don't know if he is still viewed as an asset that can grow into the system and thrive.
I expected/hoped he'd improve and take the starting role from Jose. He did not. Neither did Grant. I don't know what needs to be fixed with these guys or did they hit their ceiling?

So what does the Armchair GM do now? If they cut them and they do better elsewhere its "The system was at fault", or "Knicks are impatient". Right now Armchair dude, with no hindsight what do you do NOW, not in a year and look back and apply a "Grade" to it. If you don't know, that's ok, but remember that you don't!