matt wrote:interesting that Kerr and Walton, who allegedly admire Jackson, have both shot him down.

Why? Kerr inherited a team that won 55 games the year before, super ownership and GM, his daughter goes to school in the area and his family is in San Diego.

IN hindsight, they won a chip, broke the all time win record and favored to win another. Interesting? not really. Luke might not like Fish as much as Kerr, was a better team, is a west coast guy and in hindsight has learned a ton.

No way Luke walks away now and committing in the middle of the playoffs is really not cool either. Kerr's back can go out at anytime and Luke is top dog. Its call "commitment!"
Tone of articles are very weighted. one even said "with nets hiring of Kenny Atkinson it puts more pressure on them". They don't say why? Why would it put more pressure on them? Free agency does not start until July and we don't have any draft picks.

Maybe Phil called to discuss under what circumstances he would take the job, or even consideration. Given GSW will at very least play to conf. finals, its a few weeks away. PHil might have said "I'll hold it open for you if you want it". Luke might have said "I can't commit to that right now, I don't know what Steves plans are for next year". That's not no, its not yes.

Media can paint it as a no. Only they know the conversation.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

And why would Walton want to come coach here where he'll have Phil breathing down his neck forcing his offense on him instead of letting him use his own intellect to construct his own offense. His own legacy.

It's really hard to look at the last couple seasons and not see Phil as someone who is too much an ideologue to make it work as a President of Basketball Operations. He needs to simply get the best people possible then step out of the way. Triangle be damned.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

He lowballed Kerr?? I thought GSW matched what Knicks offered?
The concept of Fish was ok. Fish reputation was solid. He proved otherwise.
You get to look back and judge, not revisit the exact conditions in place when decisions had to be made.
I give Phil credit for Firing Fish than let a mistake linger.
Phil made a mistake.
Jose is better than Felton, and is our best guard.
If we gave Monroe the max, that would have been awful. I read he did not offer money. Monroe is on record saying he did not want to play in NYC.
Rolo was a great signing. Dwil was ok, he was what he was. KOQ not a great one.
I'd rather Phil adhere to his goal and system than not. No, it has not yielded the results but Im not sure what can.
You assume Kerr would have done massively better than what we got from Fish? Maybe a few games, maybe.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

I think the fact that the only times the triangle offense was only successful was when it was headed up by Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, then Kobe/Gasol, aka by all time greats says a lot more than comparing O ratings of teams playing in essentially different time periods.

martin wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

I think the fact that the only times the triangle offense was only successful was when it was headed up by Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, then Kobe/Gasol, aka by all time greats says a lot more than comparing O ratings of teams playing in essentially different time periods.

Pippen led triangle team without Jordan did very well. Is Pau Gasol considered an all time great?

He was phenomenal in those years and did not miss a shot. As efficient as any big I have seen. Triangle credit? Maybe? Phil certainly gets credit as a great coach and deservedly so but the triangle has not been proven by itself and anyone is saying that it has been is being dishonest.

I would assume that if just one other coach was successful with it, that would be a start. And saying that a team (like SA) is using Triangle Principles is just bs as well.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

I think the fact that the only times the triangle offense was only successful was when it was headed up by Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, then Kobe/Gasol, aka by all time greats says a lot more than comparing O ratings of teams playing in essentially different time periods.

Pippen led triangle team without Jordan did very well. Is Pau Gasol considered an all time great?

He was phenomenal in those years and did not miss a shot. As efficient as any big I have seen. Triangle credit? Maybe? Phil certainly gets credit as a great coach and deservedly so but the triangle has not been proven by itself and anyone is saying that it has been is being dishonest.

I would assume that if just one other coach was successful with it, that would be a start. And saying that a team (like SA) is using Triangle Principles is just bs as well.

I don't even know what that means.

Triangle has won with swingmen as the primaries. Won with bigmen. Won with different bigmen.

Triangle has been the MOST successful system since 1990, 2 decade span. Across multiple franchises.

I lot goes into winning. Triangle has been a part of that over the past decades. Spurs only other franchise that seems to continue that tradition of greatness for that amount of time.

I think, judging by his other posts and threads, you're missing mreinman's point: If you ignore all the achievements, pretend all the good decisions were accidents, distort all the successes and only acknowledge the failings, then pretend the Knicks have never signed a free agent in franchise history (just make up any old story when the facts show otherwise) then you will realize that Phil has been a disaster and the Knicks are doomed forever.

martin wrote:<snip>
Pippen led triangle team without Jordan did very well. Is Pau Gasol considered an all time great?

Fascinating question. I'd say that Gasol will be in the basketball HoF - does that make him an all-time great. He's won at practically every level - except for an Olympic gold. You can even make a pretty decent argument that he's the best Euro player ever (over Nowitzki!).

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

I think the fact that the only times the triangle offense was only successful was when it was headed up by Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, then Kobe/Gasol, aka by all time greats says a lot more than comparing O ratings of teams playing in essentially different time periods.

Pippen led triangle team without Jordan did very well. Is Pau Gasol considered an all time great?

He was phenomenal in those years and did not miss a shot. As efficient as any big I have seen. Triangle credit? Maybe? Phil certainly gets credit as a great coach and deservedly so but the triangle has not been proven by itself and anyone is saying that it has been is being dishonest.

I would assume that if just one other coach was successful with it, that would be a start. And saying that a team (like SA) is using Triangle Principles is just bs as well.

I don't even know what that means.

Triangle has won with swingmen as the primaries. Won with bigmen. Won with different bigmen.

Triangle has been the MOST successful system since 1990, 2 decade span. Across multiple franchises.

I lot goes into winning. Triangle has been a part of that over the past decades. Spurs only other franchise that seems to continue that tradition of greatness for that amount of time.

you lost me. The triangle has won with MJ and Kobe as the primaries with some off the charts HOF supporting casts.

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:so far it has been a disaster. Put a sh1tty team with a worse than sh1tty record out there without the intention to tank.

he has a lot to prove and fix.

Once again you don't get KP if you keep the inherited Roster! You can keep talking nonsense but at some point you have to explain how it wasn't a good thing that Phil let the team bottom out in the one year we had a 1st rd pick. In that same draft he adds Jerian and Willy. So in your opinion this wasn't a good thing??? Can you not see how that makes no sense?

The starting frontcourt is VERY good and will get better as RoLo continues to improve his offense and KP matures. That basically leaves the 2 guard spots as the only holes. You can't say Phil has a lot to fix when really it's the 2 starting guard spots. If he solves at least one of those spots this summer it's progress. One way or another the coaching situation will be resolved. So i'm not really seeing all this "disaster" you're trying to promote. Instead it looks like a team making incremental progress. 2014-15 roster blown up. 2015-16 roster revamped. 2016-17 look to improve again. Seems to make sense to me.

You can say that if you drive a car of a bridge, live, and land in a pool of gold that "see? its all good."

Rolo was a good signing even though it was what was left after Monroe and there were not many takers for Rolo. Either way, still good.

KP, great but lose another game or two and it could/would have been ok4.

I am still not sold that Jerian is better than THJ.

Hergo we know nothing about but Briggs said that we could have done much better so I am going by his word.

Our backcourt is a disaster and the biggest problem for me is that we don't run nearly enough PnR especially with the new dufus in charge.

Phil fukked up with Kerr by lowballing him and we can just ignore that. Maybe it is what caused him not to come here? Just maybe? Maybe not ... who knows ... it was stupid either way.

Now, we have a system that looks creaky with a coach who seems like a tool with a coaching search that is spread as wide as anyone who knows cobol. PERFECT!

Can phil turn this around? of course he can. Will he? I am quite skeptical being that he seems to care more about proving the triangle than he does about the knicks.

So things haven't been perfect. You have to be able to make adjustments to your plan when things happen. In the end Phil has drafted well. He's put together a very solid Frontcourt. He now has fewer holes to fill. See, if you stop going back and looking for negatives needlessly you can deal with the realities. They have opportunities to improve the roster going forward. They have talent to develop internally. This is not a disaster.

The System isn't creaky. We need to improve the talent on the team at the most important spots. The PG and SG spots are highly impactful on how a team plays. We need to upgrade the production at our guard spots overall. The Triangle has been proven to be able to allow a team to perform at a high level even by today's standards:

2015-16
Rk	Team	                ORtg ▾	Pace
1	Golden State Warriors	115.18	99.3
2	Oklahoma City Thunder	113.76	96.7
3	Cleveland Cavaliers	111.80	93.3
4	Toronto Raptors	        111.11	92.9
5	San Antonio Spurs	111.04	95.8
08-09   Los Angeles Lakers      112.80  94.3
07-08   Los Angeles Lakers      113.00  95.6

If the Triangle was so detrimental to offensive efficiency then those kinds of stats would not be possible. End of argument!!!

I think the fact that the only times the triangle offense was only successful was when it was headed up by Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, then Kobe/Gasol, aka by all time greats says a lot more than comparing O ratings of teams playing in essentially different time periods.

Pippen led triangle team without Jordan did very well. Is Pau Gasol considered an all time great?

He was phenomenal in those years and did not miss a shot. As efficient as any big I have seen. Triangle credit? Maybe? Phil certainly gets credit as a great coach and deservedly so but the triangle has not been proven by itself and anyone is saying that it has been is being dishonest.

I would assume that if just one other coach was successful with it, that would be a start. And saying that a team (like SA) is using Triangle Principles is just bs as well.

I don't even know what that means.

Triangle has won with swingmen as the primaries. Won with bigmen. Won with different bigmen.

Triangle has been the MOST successful system since 1990, 2 decade span. Across multiple franchises.

I lot goes into winning. Triangle has been a part of that over the past decades. Spurs only other franchise that seems to continue that tradition of greatness for that amount of time.

you lost me. The triangle has won with MJ and Kobe as the primaries with some off the charts HOF supporting casts.

And golden States system has only won with elite players like Steph Curry and Green, and the Spurs system has only won with Tim Duncan & company- which team hasn't won with elite HOF supporting casts?

that is exactly the point and why JVG in his great Zach Lowe interview says that you need to run a system that fits your personnel not the other way around.