HofstraBBall wrote:Seems like a lot of work for a guy that can't play D?

When i thought of the strategy of the four guards after 15 Valentine Felder Jonbes Forbes--each player had a skill or multiple skills that the other did not. The most explosive player in this draft--one who compares strongly to Demar Derozan after his 1 year at UCLA--Derrick Jones has all the tools to be an elite defender. Denzell Valentine--I mean what can you say--he took a good(not great) club to 29-5 in a tough conference and avg near triple double and shot 45% from 3. Kay Felder is one of the most under rated players in CBB if he was 2-3 inches taller wed be talking top 3 pick. and lastly Forbes a 3 point shooter type--role player but a high ly talented one--the best in CBB.

Its VERY hard to get just one player who just has every skill. I tried to model everything after GS--they have guards who do different things one can drive two can shoot one can playmaker one is a great defender--and that is my strategy. We already have the bigs--I think a lot of these free agents will be Aaron Affalo redux. I mean can you tell me just 1 1 player who has Derrick Jones athletic ability? One player who has the combo skills of Kay Felder and Denzel Valentine? Just like KP--some of these guys can make an impact right now

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.

This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.

Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.

I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.

Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.

I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.

You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.

Barea sucks ... but maybe you judged him in that quarter against Jose.

Barea is a good solid nBA player.

Felder is a specimen. Hes part Nate Robinson part Tim Hardaway part Isiah Thomas(Boston). To lead the nation in both scoring and assist--I dont remember the last guy to do that. He makes the game easier for his teammates--he wont have to shoot as much in the NBA and hes easily the best passer along with Valentine in CBB. He has the best body control in CBB and he pares that with incredible handle and speed. Wait until this guy goes to the nBA with all of the space there is. The one thing that Id like to see him do is get the 3 pt shot from .35 to .38 and hes going to do that. Watch in the video from the other night--always moving forward never side to side. Moves the ball with speed either with a pass or the dribble. Uses power and quickness to create space. Get to the FT line easy as he bangs off other players and creates contact.

barea is a below average player and gets paid like one. He is a the typical player that looks like he is better than he is.

BRIGGS wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Seems like a lot of work for a guy that can't play D?

When i thought of the strategy of the four guards after 15 Valentine Felder Jonbes Forbes--each player had a skill or multiple skills that the other did not. The most explosive player in this draft--one who compares strongly to Demar Derozan after his 1 year at UCLA--Derrick Jones has all the tools to be an elite defender. Denzell Valentine--I mean what can you say--he took a good(not great) club to 29-5 in a tough conference and avg near triple double and shot 45% from 3. Kay Felder is one of the most under rated players in CBB if he was 2-3 inches taller wed be talking top 3 pick. and lastly Forbes a 3 point shooter type--role player but a high ly talented one--the best in CBB.

Its VERY hard to get just one player who just has every skill. I tried to model everything after GS--they have guards who do different things one can drive two can shoot one can playmaker one is a great defender--and that is my strategy. We already have the bigs--I think a lot of these free agents will be Aaron Affalo redux. I mean can you tell me just 1 1 player who has Derrick Jones athletic ability? One player who has the combo skills of Kay Felder and Denzel Valentine? Just like KP--some of these guys can make an impact right now

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Seems like a lot of work for a guy that can't play D?

When i thought of the strategy of the four guards after 15 Valentine Felder Jonbes Forbes--each player had a skill or multiple skills that the other did not. The most explosive player in this draft--one who compares strongly to Demar Derozan after his 1 year at UCLA--Derrick Jones has all the tools to be an elite defender. Denzell Valentine--I mean what can you say--he took a good(not great) club to 29-5 in a tough conference and avg near triple double and shot 45% from 3. Kay Felder is one of the most under rated players in CBB if he was 2-3 inches taller wed be talking top 3 pick. and lastly Forbes a 3 point shooter type--role player but a high ly talented one--the best in CBB.

Its VERY hard to get just one player who just has every skill. I tried to model everything after GS--they have guards who do different things one can drive two can shoot one can playmaker one is a great defender--and that is my strategy. We already have the bigs--I think a lot of these free agents will be Aaron Affalo redux. I mean can you tell me just 1 1 player who has Derrick Jones athletic ability? One player who has the combo skills of Kay Felder and Denzel Valentine? Just like KP--some of these guys can make an impact right now

Would agree that it's hard to find the perfect player, specially out of college. As it is hard to know who can adapt to the NBA game. For me, the 2 has to be able to play defense. If not, he will find himself on the bench playing spot minutes like every other "good scorer" that can't play D. Think this player type is common on a lot of NBA squads. Would rather go after athletically gifted player who has a higher ceiling and can keep up with the a peed and ability of most NBA players. IMO

I consider Valentine a 1 guard Felder a 1 guard Jones a 2 G and Forbes a combo

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.

This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.

Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.

I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.

Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.

I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.

You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.

Barea sucks ... but maybe you judged him in that quarter against Jose.

Barea is a good solid nBA player.

Felder is a specimen. Hes part Nate Robinson part Tim Hardaway part Isiah Thomas(Boston). To lead the nation in both scoring and assist--I dont remember the last guy to do that. He makes the game easier for his teammates--he wont have to shoot as much in the NBA and hes easily the best passer along with Valentine in CBB. He has the best body control in CBB and he pares that with incredible handle and speed. Wait until this guy goes to the nBA with all of the space there is. The one thing that Id like to see him do is get the 3 pt shot from .35 to .38 and hes going to do that. Watch in the video from the other night--always moving forward never side to side. Moves the ball with speed either with a pass or the dribble. Uses power and quickness to create space. Get to the FT line easy as he bangs off other players and creates contact.

barea is a below average player and gets paid like one. He is a the typical player that looks like he is better than he is.

Same guy who played an important part in a championship run. You need different players to win guys who make 1mm 3mm 7mm and then the big guys.--Barea is a high quality back up who has the skills to spot start.

I think Phil laughs when he hears he is 5'9" tall. Again, this whole triangle thing is filtering players out. Maybe not the worst thing in the world but getting to be a pita.

BRIGGS wrote:I dont care what name you come up with in the NY Knicks organization my picks last year of J Richardson NORMAN Powell Joe Young as high value 2 nd rders( who I thought were 1st rders) will be superior to any of their picks. Let me see how Valentine Felder Jones Nd Forbes work out in the future

what does this even mean? i thought they would be pretty good players too. and im sure others did too. are you implying that you know better than those in the knicks organization? even if you did thats not saying much! i dont think anyone is disputing that valentine, felder and forbes are good (i'll dispute that jones is. I dont know how many UNLV games you have watched but dude was an 8th man on a BAD BAD team. he has super athletic genes but thats it - for now). What were questioning is that these prospects will be available for the knicks to draft. Its great to say the knicks should draft these players but if there is no HOW then its pointless. might as well talk about getting lebron james again

BRIGGS - i'm not saying you dont know basketball. In fact i look forward to your posts. But with all due respect, I just dont know what your point is sometimes.

callmened wrote:he's not a free agent BRIGGS..hes a college basketball player about to be drafted

Well, what can we trade to get a pick high enough to nab him:

Melo
GodZingis.
RoPez.

Ropez worth a mid first rounder? Could be. What if Denzell goes before we draft? Oops.
If you trade RoPez, might as trade Melo.

That's an old conversation.

So its easy want guys. Its cool to advocate to get him, but really, how does that happen? Thus, no bragging rights.