nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:This is not surprising.
Guy defends pretty well (better than Afflalo), passes the ball (Afflalo doesn't) and can drive to the basket off the dribble (not really Afflalo's strength)

The major problem is 3 point shooting but I guess if you need that you go with Afflalo.

A Turner/Afflalo rotation at 2 guard is much better. Certainly you won't spend all the capspace on Turner. I'm not sure what his market value is, but lets say 8 million a year? Still should leave the Knicks with money to go after another rotation/big minute player.

The biggest moves we can make in the 2016 offseason are as follows - and are all internal based.

Primary: Coaching. I'd like Phil to step in and coach for a year or two, since everyone is killing his system, his offense and he brings immediate recognition and respect to the table. Health wise he may not be able to do it, but he has to step up here. He can't sit back and let Rambis coach out another season, Rambis has proven he is not able to get wins. If not him, then Luke Walton, who would bring some sets from Golden State to NY, and also run some Triangle. Similar to what Fisher was doing this past season (some sets from OKC and Triangle) only Luke seems so far he will turn out to be a better coach than Fisher.

Secondary: Porzingis and Grant. These two have shown major signs this year. Obviously in different settings and roles. Porzingis has the talent and ability to fill in the all-star primary shot taker role (he easily gets off 15-20 shots off and that's as a rookie). Grant has the talent to be a good defensive guard who can drive and kick or drive and dish. Give us some important minutes at a huge weakness for us, point guard.

Third: Melo. What happens here is important. Either Melo needs to come back 100 percent dedicated, and this means getting lighter, so he puts less weight on old knees, doing all the things that are important to extend his career. Be excited to be part of a playoff run vs a championship run. Because there won't be a championship run next year. Or help us get him to a good team that can give him that and us some young talent that fits in with Porzingis.

The majority of our season's results next year will be dependent on internal factors. Don't expect a major free agent move. Don't expect Phil Jackson to give Mike Conley 100 million dollar contract. I can see us go hard after Durant and a few other top free agents but those guys will likely sign with teams that can win in the immediate term. Comes back to what we can do with our coaching, how good Porzingis/Grant/other young players can be next year and what happens with Melo. The free agent moves be it Turner or whatever, will not add more than 5 wins. They'll take us from a 30 win team to a 35 win team. What'll take us to a 45 win team or better, will be a much better Porzingis/Grant, a much better coach and Melo playing a season consistently (Or being traded for 2 good young players that fit in).

The only issue I have with your take is the coach. I'd prefer they go with Thibs personally. I think he will have grown as a coach and I think he'd be highly motivated and he knows the Triangle and how to blend it with other things to make it all come together. I can't see Phil passing up on such an accomplished coach that also wants to be here. It would relieve Phil of having to worry about the coaching aspect of things and he can concentrate on everything else. IMO Thibs is the most logical choice.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:so jackson is high on turner, a player i have been touting for months as an upgrade over afflalo? see my sig.

SHOCKING!! lol

he sucks but maybe he is perfect for you and dr phil

mreinman... added to DK's list of people who have a lot to learn about the game.

Evan Turner would be a nice guy to pick up for 3 years and $15mm, he would be the 8th or 9th guy on the bench and be a decent bench player. He will shine in a couple spot starts. for each one of those he will have 3-4 nights where he does nothing, cant defend more athletic guys, cant shoot and is barely a warm body.

There is nothing wrong with Evan Turner except where he was drafted. He would be a great player in Europe. He's average to below average NBA talent, which is why I say he kinda sucks. He's a really good passer and a ball mover. Thus the triangle draw. But he's not a good shooter, not a good scorer.

He could be a good part.. but if this is one of the big additions its a terrible move. His impact isn't any more than Afflalo. At least AA can score in bunches and win some games. In terms of impact Turner is not an upgrade over AA. They are very different players but not high impact guys at all.

Holy crap, there's a whole lot of wrong in this post. E,Turner is gonna get a heck of a lot more than $5 million a year, he''l at least get the $8 million per that Afflalo gets. He absolutely wouldn't be the 8th or 9th guy on the team he'd be a starter. He's a better shooter/scorer then you're making him out to be and i've seen him take over games in the 4th quarter and seen him do it against us a few times.

the best thing i would like about signing ETurner is when melo says "WTF" and then demands a trade. thats why id be all on board with signing the immortal E. TUrner

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:so jackson is high on turner, a player i have been touting for months as an upgrade over afflalo? see my sig.

SHOCKING!! lol

he sucks but maybe he is perfect for you and dr phil

mreinman... added to DK's list of people who have a lot to learn about the game.

Evan Turner would be a nice guy to pick up for 3 years and $15mm, he would be the 8th or 9th guy on the bench and be a decent bench player. He will shine in a couple spot starts. for each one of those he will have 3-4 nights where he does nothing, cant defend more athletic guys, cant shoot and is barely a warm body.

There is nothing wrong with Evan Turner except where he was drafted. He would be a great player in Europe. He's average to below average NBA talent, which is why I say he kinda sucks. He's a really good passer and a ball mover. Thus the triangle draw. But he's not a good shooter, not a good scorer.

He could be a good part.. but if this is one of the big additions its a terrible move. His impact isn't any more than Afflalo. At least AA can score in bunches and win some games. In terms of impact Turner is not an upgrade over AA. They are very different players but not high impact guys at all.

Holy crap, there's a whole lot of wrong in this post. E,Turner is gonna get a heck of a lot more than $5 million a year, he''l at least get the $8 million per that Afflalo gets. He absolutely wouldn't be the 8th or 9th guy on the team he'd be a starter. He's a better shooter/scorer then you're making him out to be and i've seen him take over games in the 4th quarter and seen him do it against us a few times.

Now.. Im not trying to be a douche on that last part, simply making a point. Turner is NOT a good scorer by NBA standards in any way shape or form. He's WELL BEHIND Afflalo in that regard. He's been simply a bad shooter from EVERYWHERE his whole career and his shooting #s back that up. Calling him a starter doesn't mean poop. Jose Calderon is a starter. Afflalo is a starter. Sasha has started. So my 8th man comment is spot on, on a GOOD team.

He's a high IQ, low skill player. If he could shoot it you live with the below average athleticism. If we whiff on FAs and sign Turner to AA's contract (2 years $16mm) fine. I can live with it. Its an upgrade. If you go out and pay Turner what Shump or Carrol got its a BAD BAD move. The guy is a 6 year pro. Time to accept he is what he is. Im sure he will look better around better player. Everyone does.

Turner is right where he should be.. backing up Avery Bradley.

VCoug wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Why are people using AA as a standard? He sucks and just because another player might be better than him in other areas doesn't mean they are good? Having the best below avg players isn't much to talk about. It's like when people called AA an improvement over JR/Shump, that's not saying much.

Seriously. He's decent as the 4th man on an ok Boston team that's going to win about 45 games. Guys like him, Brandon Jennings, Courtney Lee, etc. do absolutely nothing for us and if those are the kinds of guys we sign this Summer we should expect to have basically the same record (unless Porzingis makes some sort of leap next year).

turner is a different player from jennings and lee. he is a better fit in the triangle.

if you look at his drpm he is worlds better than afflalo. and if you look at his usage and his assist rate his ratio is very low, which is a very good thing.

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:turner haters are also jackson haters. it's a simple equivalency test.

nobody even knows turner enough to hate him.

his advanced stats are bad, don't why you said they are good.

Why do you think everyone just watches the Knicks? I watch the Celtics all the time on the weekends because MSG is not available in my weekend home. Evan turner has played well this year but he is the benefactor of the Cs offense and the play of 5-9 isiah Thomas who by the way has more positive impact on games than Carmelo. I don't think turner would have the same impact here because of our spacing. It's going to cost starter money to get him and he's not a good shooter so you would almost be forced to start him as a 1 guard but he's not that. I would love for any fan of turner to explain how he fits on the Knicks????

he is a terrific pocket passer and in traffic. knicks need better passers. afflalo and williams are horrible passers. thomas is a little better but struggles there too. grant leaves his feet to pass every godammed time. clyde has pointed this out many times.

dk7th wrote:

VCoug wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Why are people using AA as a standard? He sucks and just because another player might be better than him in other areas doesn't mean they are good? Having the best below avg players isn't much to talk about. It's like when people called AA an improvement over JR/Shump, that's not saying much.

Seriously. He's decent as the 4th man on an ok Boston team that's going to win about 45 games. Guys like him, Brandon Jennings, Courtney Lee, etc. do absolutely nothing for us and if those are the kinds of guys we sign this Summer we should expect to have basically the same record (unless Porzingis makes some sort of leap next year).

turner is a different player from jennings and lee. he is a better fit in the triangle.

if you look at his drpm he is worlds better than afflalo. and if you look at his usage and his assist rate his ratio is very low, which is a very good thing.

Yea but its better the way Boston was able to add him at low cost after a down turn in Indy while reducing his role is why they are able to maximize him. Paying up for him and giving him a bigger role is dangers.

A guy like OJ Mayo fits that category of the former. Could be a good fit in the tri at a real cheap price and it is a young veteran.

Another guy Tyreke Evans if Pelicans are willing to sell low would be another option. He rebounds, playkmakes, consistently productive.

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:turner haters are also jackson haters. it's a simple equivalency test.

nobody even knows turner enough to hate him.

his advanced stats are bad, don't why you said they are good.

Why do you think everyone just watches the Knicks? I watch the Celtics all the time on the weekends because MSG is not available in my weekend home. Evan turner has played well this year but he is the benefactor of the Cs offense and the play of 5-9 isiah Thomas who by the way has more positive impact on games than Carmelo. I don't think turner would have the same impact here because of our spacing. It's going to cost starter money to get him and he's not a good shooter so you would almost be forced to start him as a 1 guard but he's not that. I would love for any fan of turner to explain how he fits on the Knicks????

he is a terrific pocket passer and in traffic. knicks need better passers. afflalo and williams are horrible passers. thomas is a little better but struggles there too. grant leaves his feet to pass every godammed time. clyde has pointed this out many times.

I always thought that LT is a horrible passer and - I don't why this is - even though Grant leaves his feet, I throw that off to rookie stuff just happening and I expect much better from him next year.

newyorker4ever wrote:

VCoug wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Why are people using AA as a standard? He sucks and just because another player might be better than him in other areas doesn't mean they are good? Having the best below avg players isn't much to talk about. It's like when people called AA an improvement over JR/Shump, that's not saying much.

Seriously. He's decent as the 4th man on an ok Boston team that's going to win about 45 games. Guys like him, Brandon Jennings, Courtney Lee, etc. do absolutely nothing for us and if those are the kinds of guys we sign this Summer we should expect to have basically the same record (unless Porzingis makes some sort of leap next year).

Well you better be ready for us to sign those types of players cause we won't be signing any max guys this off season. Those 3 names you mentioned and guys like that are exactly what i'm expecting this off season and i really don't think some of them would be bad choices for what we can afford. If we get the right guys in that come in committed and we can get a head coach that the players will respect and can coach then i think if we added a E.Turner and B.Jennings or R.Rondo to Melo, KP and R.Lopez that they could absolutely compete for the playoffs next year.

PG--R.Rondo or B.Jennings
SG--E.Turner
SF--Melo
PF--KP
C--R.Lopez
Bench--L.Thomas, D.Williams, Gallo, J.Grant, KOQ, W.Hermangomez and a couple of new lower priced veterans.

To be able to afford both Rondo or Jennings and E.Turner A.Afflalo will have to opt out and not re-sign but that team there would make the playoffs next year.