that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

well written and perfectly stated. however the reality is: melo controls his own destiny and THAT destiny drastically effects the knicks future. Phil SHOULD be allowed to do what he wants but the reality is DOLAN and this franchise continue to cater to melo and his demands. Melo wants a champ team but thats not gonna happen overnight. My fear is that they will get over the hill vets with champ pedigree (rondo) that has nothing to so with our future.

the best analogy i can give is: we all know the older 36yr old guy doesnt make sense to date a 19 yr old girl. from the outside looking in, we can all see that theres no real future. Even the 36yr old guy is starting to have 2nd thoughts. especially when he sees his friends in good healthy relationships. but he's not sure and waivers back and forth. THe 19yr old's parents deep down WANT the older guy to leave, so that their daughter can find someone their own age. but shes all nieve and in love and its basically all up to the guy. So theyre STUCK in a holding pattern until the older guy decides to move on.

CrushAlot wrote:

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

well written and perfectly stated. however the reality is: melo controls his own destiny and THAT destiny drastically effects the knicks future. Phil SHOULD be allowed to do what he wants but the reality is DOLAN and this franchise continue to cater to melo and his demands. Melo wants a champ team but thats not gonna happen overnight. My fear is that they will get over the hill vets with champ pedigree (rondo) that has nothing to so with our future.

the best analogy i can give is: we all know the older 36yr old guy doesnt make sense to date a 19 yr old girl. from the outside looking in, we can all see that theres no real future. Even the 36yr old guy is starting to have 2nd thoughts. especially when he sees his friends in good healthy relationships. but he's not sure and waivers back and forth. THe 19yr old's parents deep down WANT the older guy to leave, so that their daughter can find someone their own age. but shes all nieve and in love and its basically all up to the guy. So theyre STUCK in a holding pattern until the older guy decides to move on.

Except the 19 year olds parents gave him a ntc. Also, in regards to the initial post, Melo's contract was negotiated and he got a ntc. I don't think Dolan negotiated the contract. Dolan would have given Melo the max and a ntc. The Melo deal was negotiated by Phil. The reality is that real people do negotiate things like contracts and their characters aren't necessarily flawed if they try to get paid the most they can.

"He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do. Give us a break in the early part of his contract so that when we have some wiggle room next year, which is hopefully big enough wiggle room, we can exploit it, provide a more competitive team for our group," Jackson said after the Knicks' summer league practice in Las Vegas.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

well written and perfectly stated. however the reality is: melo controls his own destiny and THAT destiny drastically effects the knicks future. Phil SHOULD be allowed to do what he wants but the reality is DOLAN and this franchise continue to cater to melo and his demands. Melo wants a champ team but thats not gonna happen overnight. My fear is that they will get over the hill vets with champ pedigree (rondo) that has nothing to so with our future.

the best analogy i can give is: we all know the older 36yr old guy doesnt make sense to date a 19 yr old girl. from the outside looking in, we can all see that theres no real future. Even the 36yr old guy is starting to have 2nd thoughts. especially when he sees his friends in good healthy relationships. but he's not sure and waivers back and forth. THe 19yr old's parents deep down WANT the older guy to leave, so that their daughter can find someone their own age. but shes all nieve and in love and its basically all up to the guy. So theyre STUCK in a holding pattern until the older guy decides to move on.

Except the 19 year olds parents gave him a ntc. Also, in regards to the initial post, Melo's contract was negotiated and he got a ntc. I don't think Dolan negotiated the contract. Dolan would have given Melo the max and a ntc. The Melo deal was negotiated by Phil. The reality is that real people do negotiate things like contracts and their characters aren't necessarily flawed if they try to get paid the most they can.

im pretty sure dolan had a lot to do with it based on the fact that phil had said many times leading up to it that he wanted melo to take a pay cut which obviously didnt happen

He did take a pay cut.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

"He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do. Give us a break in the early part of his contract so that when we have some wiggle room next year, which is hopefully big enough wiggle room, we can exploit it, provide a more competitive team for our group," Jackson said after the Knicks' summer league practice in Las Vegas.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/nba/story/_/id/11210007/carmelo-anthony-reaches-deal-new-york-knicks

here is where not taking everything you here literally may come into play. If phil was not happy with the melo deal but had no leverage, what do you expect him to say?

How about we take politicians comments literally?

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

Dolan being involved is pure speculation on your part. Phil Jackson told everyone he was hired with the promise to have total freedom and there is zero indication that he has had anything but total freedom. In no way have we caught any whiff of Dolan meddling since Phil took over.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

"He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do. Give us a break in the early part of his contract so that when we have some wiggle room next year, which is hopefully big enough wiggle room, we can exploit it, provide a more competitive team for our group," Jackson said after the Knicks' summer league practice in Las Vegas.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/nba/story/_/id/11210007/carmelo-anthony-reaches-deal-new-york-knicks

here is where not taking everything you here literally may come into play. If phil was not happy with the melo deal but had no leverage, what do you expect him to say?

How about we take politicians comments literally?

The syntax of that quote is tortured to say the least.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i don't see a conundrum at all. melo got his money, the clock wound down to zero. then phil jackson hoped he could get melo to stay at a significant discount, which melo refused to do. then, in a move that has james dolan's paw prints and stench all over it, a no-trade clause was thrown in. this is a sign of a malignant narcissist, someone who can't help but foul his own nest. meanwhile a high percentage of the fanbase goes along in some sort of hypnotic surrender, agreeing with a melo-centric narrative.

that's just wrong... and perverse.

jackson ought to be allowed to do the work he wanted to do and in fact was hired to do, which is build a culture with lasting power, and that culture would outlast melo's career as a knick. there is no sense in rushing. there is a huge amount of inertia that this ship is under and it takes much longer than just two seasons to undergo a genuine course correction. if melo doesn't like the rate of the course correction then he can waive the no-trade and chase championships like so many also-rans have in the past. no shame in that but of course his legacy as a knick will be of the bronze sort, maybe not even that. if he stays he should be prepared to let the knicks build a future with him as an older vet in a reduced role. my opinion is that the phil jackson and the franchise owe melo nothing. on the contrary, melo owes the knicks, and he can repay them by leaving or accepting that the knicks future is not centered on his late prime and twilight years.

just because the knicks grossly overpaid not once but twice for melo does not mean the knicks should do more of the same by signing older, injury-prone vets and vastly overrated players that keep getting traded.

Dolan being involved is pure speculation on your part. Phil Jackson told everyone he was hired with the promise to have total freedom and there is zero indication that he has had anything but total freedom. In no way have we caught any whiff of Dolan meddling since Phil took over.

The no trade clause was gratuitous in the extreme. Only a malignant narcissist, a notorious, alcholic star-phucker would reward a player that kind of control. I am sorry but you sound naive here.

No he doesn't sound naive. If Dolan negotiates that deal Melo doesn't take a little less in his second year and he still gets a ntc. Also, Phil would say if Dolan was involved. Phil did the deal. He wanted wiggle room in year two and gave up the ntc.

and how do you know this inside info? Reading da future? Dolans mind? Melo's?

bottom line is: its my feeling that Melo controls his destiny. unfortunately that fate is tied closely with the knicks' fate - trading him to get younger assets or trying to get vets that can help him toward a ring. and of course if melo isnt SATISFIED with these moves hell leave