martin wrote:Regarding Boston and Toronto and their coaches: it took each until the 3rd year to get to a .500 record. You gotta be patient.

That's a very fair assessment.

And one reason we don't have the draft picks that Boston and Toronto do is not Phil - it was the regimes before Phil. Phil has never traded away a draft pick. He traded for a first round pick in Jerian Grant and got two second round picks in the Tyson Chandler deal.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:With the Raptors and Celtics light years ahead of filled with multiple high draft picks and massive cap space of their own--we will have little chance to make headways over the next 2-3 years. It would take a shocking free agent--as in Lebron for us to change the tide and its not happening(and then we still need 3 more guards lol)

The path Id take
trade Carmelo for picks young players and cap
Try but if season goes bad next year full tank for another top 5 pick
only purchase quality low cost free agents who are YOUNG.
Really work on style of play and player development
Bring in Luke Walton

I think there are several upperclassmen guards in college who can help this team--I really believe that. It will take time but Id rather have players that we hand pick and develop. Its time for us to get the next Drey green Manu Ginobli and Isiah Thomas

Raptors and Celtics are good, and will be good for awhile, but neither team is winning a championship without dramatic improvements to the current roster. In fact, Toronto might be one more 1st round exit from just starting over. They flirt with rebuilding every year when they get bounced early in the playoffs. You want to know why? Because it is a superstars league. Teams with superstars win in the playoffs. We have Porzingis who is one of the leagues most likely young superstars. Getting a future star in the hardest thing to acquire. Toronto has 2 all-stars at their peaks. Neither is a franchise superstar. Celtics don't have that. So the "light years ahead" thing is not accurate.

They are so far ahead of us its not funny. Toronto can toy with us and they dont even have Demarre Carroll. And to improve the team if needed---they have a top 8 pick(ours) another 25 pick and just as much money as us with a better GM and coach? LOL???? I hate to break it to you Carmelo isnt a franchise superstar--if he was we wouldnt have lost more than we won since hes been here.

Yup. Though Toronto or Boston don't have any superstars, they have the assets and flexibility to change that rather quickly. They also have respected coaches and stability now.

We have KP, broken down Melo, no draft pick or enviable assets and jack shyt on the coaching front. 11 out of 10 knowledgeable basketball people would prefer to be in the Raps or C's shoes than the Knicks, that's for sure.

Sure but KP has the opportunity to be a top-5 NBA player in a few years. How does Toronto or Boston acquire that type of player? You need one of those to win.

What assets or flexibility do we have to get someone besides KP? Boston has several 1st rounders in the pipeline, they have several moveable desirable trade assets like Turner and Crowder and Olynyk and Sullinger. We have KP and that's it. Unless Melo waives his NTC, we have no draft pick this year, we have no real desirable players teams would want. Toronto could move Terence Ross, Scola, Carroll once he's healthy along with their stash of future draft picks to improve on their core of Derozan(if he resigns) and Lowry and Valanciunas.

So KP grows into a stud, so what? We'll be the New Orleans Pelicans basically. Maybe KP will put up 59 and 20 like Anthony Davis...but for what? NO room to really contend without picks or free agents coming. Toronto and Boston already have building blocks and solid base with good coaching, Knicks got jack shyt besides 1 Latvian phenom.

I will put it this way. I wouldn't take all of Boston's assets in exchange for KP.

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:With the Raptors and Celtics light years ahead of filled with multiple high draft picks and massive cap space of their own--we will have little chance to make headways over the next 2-3 years. It would take a shocking free agent--as in Lebron for us to change the tide and its not happening(and then we still need 3 more guards lol)

The path Id take
trade Carmelo for picks young players and cap
Try but if season goes bad next year full tank for another top 5 pick
only purchase quality low cost free agents who are YOUNG.
Really work on style of play and player development
Bring in Luke Walton

I think there are several upperclassmen guards in college who can help this team--I really believe that. It will take time but Id rather have players that we hand pick and develop. Its time for us to get the next Drey green Manu Ginobli and Isiah Thomas

Raptors and Celtics are good, and will be good for awhile, but neither team is winning a championship without dramatic improvements to the current roster. In fact, Toronto might be one more 1st round exit from just starting over. They flirt with rebuilding every year when they get bounced early in the playoffs. You want to know why? Because it is a superstars league. Teams with superstars win in the playoffs. We have Porzingis who is one of the leagues most likely young superstars. Getting a future star in the hardest thing to acquire. Toronto has 2 all-stars at their peaks. Neither is a franchise superstar. Celtics don't have that. So the "light years ahead" thing is not accurate.

They are so far ahead of us its not funny. Toronto can toy with us and they dont even have Demarre Carroll. And to improve the team if needed---they have a top 8 pick(ours) another 25 pick and just as much money as us with a better GM and coach? LOL???? I hate to break it to you Carmelo isnt a franchise superstar--if he was we wouldnt have lost more than we won since hes been here.

Yup. Though Toronto or Boston don't have any superstars, they have the assets and flexibility to change that rather quickly. They also have respected coaches and stability now.

We have KP, broken down Melo, no draft pick or enviable assets and jack shyt on the coaching front. 11 out of 10 knowledgeable basketball people would prefer to be in the Raps or C's shoes than the Knicks, that's for sure.

Sure but KP has the opportunity to be a top-5 NBA player in a few years. How does Toronto or Boston acquire that type of player? You need one of those to win.

What assets or flexibility do we have to get someone besides KP? Boston has several 1st rounders in the pipeline, they have several moveable desirable trade assets like Turner and Crowder and Olynyk and Sullinger. We have KP and that's it. Unless Melo waives his NTC, we have no draft pick this year, we have no real desirable players teams would want. Toronto could move Terence Ross, Scola, Carroll once he's healthy along with their stash of future draft picks to improve on their core of Derozan(if he resigns) and Lowry and Valanciunas.

So KP grows into a stud, so what? We'll be the New Orleans Pelicans basically. Maybe KP will put up 59 and 20 like Anthony Davis...but for what? NO room to really contend without picks or free agents coming. Toronto and Boston already have building blocks and solid base with good coaching, Knicks got jack shyt besides 1 Latvian phenom.

What good is flexibility or assets if you can't use them? Ainge has been trying for years to cash out. He almost traded 4 draft picks just to get Winslow. Imagine what he would trade for KP? You love to fall back on assets and flexibility because it is good in theory, but isn't worth a damn if it can't get you anything good. It's really just about opportunity that may or may not come. It's a good problem to have, don't get me wrong, but having a foundation piece already in place is a lot better than having a ton of spare parts you are trying to cash out for something big. And stop saying we have no picks, that idea is out-dating. After this season, we owe no more first round picks. We may not have the best situation in the league, we don't by a long stretch, but we have the hardest piece to find already in place. I would much rather have New Orleans team than Boston's. They have the piece everyone would die for, and a good GM will build around him properly. Danny Ainge has done a fantastic job acquiring assets while becoming extremely competitive at the same time. That's rare. He's one of the best in the business. But what happens if he cashes out for Kevin Love or Jahlil Okafor, and neither player moves the needle? Then what? The assets and flexibility are great in theory, now let's see them use them properly.

I will put it this way. I wouldn't take all of Boston's assets in exchange for KP.

great post. Its not about having picks, its about making THE pick. You can look at tons of examples of teams that had extended periods of high picks that actually made good choices on draft day but yielded nothing. The Bulls were horrible year after year with all the top 5 picks... Chandler, Curry, Marcus Fizer, Chris Mihm, Jay Williams, Hinrick, Ben Gordon... etc etc.. we can do this all day. I am very glad we have a GM that believes and uses the draft, and also is focused on developing players. The rest is patience and opportunity.

Ok, so we have "the pick". What's the plan now and why are we fake competing playing Melo heavy minutes and pretending like we're making a playoff run with Calderon at starting point guard?

You guys don't like Toronto and Boston's composition, that's fine....but at least they have a base and a plan in place. What is our plan? Our we competing now or are we building to the future? Are we playing vets or are we playing the youths? We just fired 3 guys(Rambis and Cleamons will be gone shortly) and we'll have another coaching search that hopefully Jackson won't flub this time...

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:Regarding Boston and Toronto and their coaches: it took each until the 3rd year to get to a .500 record. You gotta be patient.

We already went through 3 triangle coaches within a one year. Seems like patience is out the window in New York.

3?

Yea.

Fisher, Rambis, and Cleamons.

I donno man, if you want your posting to be taken seriously you should try harder.

Really? You really think Phil will hire those losers?

Well, if he does decide, we're phucked.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:With the Raptors and Celtics light years ahead of filled with multiple high draft picks and massive cap space of their own--we will have little chance to make headways over the next 2-3 years. It would take a shocking free agent--as in Lebron for us to change the tide and its not happening(and then we still need 3 more guards lol)

The path Id take
trade Carmelo for picks young players and cap
Try but if season goes bad next year full tank for another top 5 pick
only purchase quality low cost free agents who are YOUNG.
Really work on style of play and player development
Bring in Luke Walton

I think there are several upperclassmen guards in college who can help this team--I really believe that. It will take time but Id rather have players that we hand pick and develop. Its time for us to get the next Drey green Manu Ginobli and Isiah Thomas

Raptors and Celtics are good, and will be good for awhile, but neither team is winning a championship without dramatic improvements to the current roster. In fact, Toronto might be one more 1st round exit from just starting over. They flirt with rebuilding every year when they get bounced early in the playoffs. You want to know why? Because it is a superstars league. Teams with superstars win in the playoffs. We have Porzingis who is one of the leagues most likely young superstars. Getting a future star in the hardest thing to acquire. Toronto has 2 all-stars at their peaks. Neither is a franchise superstar. Celtics don't have that. So the "light years ahead" thing is not accurate.

They are so far ahead of us its not funny. Toronto can toy with us and they dont even have Demarre Carroll. And to improve the team if needed---they have a top 8 pick(ours) another 25 pick and just as much money as us with a better GM and coach? LOL???? I hate to break it to you Carmelo isnt a franchise superstar--if he was we wouldnt have lost more than we won since hes been here.

Yup. Though Toronto or Boston don't have any superstars, they have the assets and flexibility to change that rather quickly. They also have respected coaches and stability now.

We have KP, broken down Melo, no draft pick or enviable assets and jack shyt on the coaching front. 11 out of 10 knowledgeable basketball people would prefer to be in the Raps or C's shoes than the Knicks, that's for sure.

Sure but KP has the opportunity to be a top-5 NBA player in a few years. How does Toronto or Boston acquire that type of player? You need one of those to win.

What assets or flexibility do we have to get someone besides KP? Boston has several 1st rounders in the pipeline, they have several moveable desirable trade assets like Turner and Crowder and Olynyk and Sullinger. We have KP and that's it. Unless Melo waives his NTC, we have no draft pick this year, we have no real desirable players teams would want. Toronto could move Terence Ross, Scola, Carroll once he's healthy along with their stash of future draft picks to improve on their core of Derozan(if he resigns) and Lowry and Valanciunas.

So KP grows into a stud, so what? We'll be the New Orleans Pelicans basically. Maybe KP will put up 59 and 20 like Anthony Davis...but for what? NO room to really contend without picks or free agents coming. Toronto and Boston already have building blocks and solid base with good coaching, Knicks got jack shyt besides 1 Latvian phenom.

What good is flexibility or assets if you can't use them? Ainge has been trying for years to cash out. He almost traded 4 draft picks just to get Winslow. Imagine what he would trade for KP? You love to fall back on assets and flexibility because it is good in theory, but isn't worth a damn if it can't get you anything good. It's really just about opportunity that may or may not come. It's a good problem to have, don't get me wrong, but having a foundation piece already in place is a lot better than having a ton of spare parts you are trying to cash out for something big. And stop saying we have no picks, that idea is out-dating. After this season, we owe no more first round picks. We may not have the best situation in the league, we don't by a long stretch, but we have the hardest piece to find already in place. I would much rather have New Orleans team than Boston's. They have the piece everyone would die for, and a good GM will build around him properly. Danny Ainge has done a fantastic job acquiring assets while becoming extremely competitive at the same time. That's rare. He's one of the best in the business. But what happens if he cashes out for Kevin Love or Jahlil Okafor, and neither player moves the needle? Then what? The assets and flexibility are great in theory, now let's see them use them properly.

I will put it this way. I wouldn't take all of Boston's assets in exchange for KP.

great post. Its not about having picks, its about making THE pick. You can look at tons of examples of teams that had extended periods of high picks that actually made good choices on draft day but yielded nothing. The Bulls were horrible year after year with all the top 5 picks... Chandler, Curry, Marcus Fizer, Chris Mihm, Jay Williams, Hinrick, Ben Gordon... etc etc.. we can do this all day. I am very glad we have a GM that believes and uses the draft, and also is focused on developing players. The rest is patience and opportunity.

Ok, so we have "the pick". What's the plan now and why are we fake competing playing Melo heavy minutes and pretending like we're making a playoff run with Calderon at starting point guard?

You guys don't like Toronto and Boston's composition, that's fine....but at least they have a base and a plan in place. What is our plan? Our we competing now or are we building to the future? Are we playing vets or are we playing the youths? We just fired 3 guys(Rambis and Cleamons will be gone shortly) and we'll have another coaching search that hopefully Jackson won't flub this time...

We are trying to win now and prepare for the future. Why does it have to be one or the other? You can see Phil isn't trading picks so we aren't going all-in now. We aren't dealing players needlessly for future comp so we aren't going all-in rebuild. We are trying to find the right balance, and you know what? We are doing it. How does a team double it's win total AND find a future franchise player all in the same season? We have accomplished both to an extent. The plan from here is to add the best possible talent through free agency while not mortgaging the future. Purchase or trade for draft picks (Grant and Hermangomez) when we don't have them, and use our own picks (2017 and beyond) when we do have them. Pretty simple right? No we don't have the same opportunities to improve through the draft that Boston does, but its sort of ironic that they acquired all those picks to find something that we already have, right?

But what do we have really? We have KP, fine, he'll be the Latvian Anthony Davis. Melo is basically toast. His knees won't last the entirety of his contract, or if he somehow stays "healthy" he'll play 50-60 games like he usually does. Not much return on max money, right? If Phil is as stubborn as he seems to be, hire say Brian Shaw since Luke Walton won't touch us with a 12 foot pole. So we have mediocre Brian Shaw and we're still married to the triangle...then what? Rondo ain't coming here, Conley wants maximum dollars and he's the furthest thing from a triangle point. Get Batum? Why would he want to play with aging Melo who plays the same position?

So it comes down to KP and filling the roster with vagabonds and roster filler until our 2017 and 2018 1st rounder is available. KP becomes Latvian Unibrow. We become basically the New Orleans Pelicans. Mediocre but just good enough to crack the playoffs maybe.

Just wasted this entire season in fake competing hell instead of developing and giving playing time to younger players that could've been potentially running mates for KP. We still don't know what we have in Grant thanks to Fisher. Only bright spot this season is Lopez is a halfway decent center option most nights except against his brother.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:With the Raptors and Celtics light years ahead of filled with multiple high draft picks and massive cap space of their own--we will have little chance to make headways over the next 2-3 years. It would take a shocking free agent--as in Lebron for us to change the tide and its not happening(and then we still need 3 more guards lol)

The path Id take
trade Carmelo for picks young players and cap
Try but if season goes bad next year full tank for another top 5 pick
only purchase quality low cost free agents who are YOUNG.
Really work on style of play and player development
Bring in Luke Walton

I think there are several upperclassmen guards in college who can help this team--I really believe that. It will take time but Id rather have players that we hand pick and develop. Its time for us to get the next Drey green Manu Ginobli and Isiah Thomas

Raptors and Celtics are good, and will be good for awhile, but neither team is winning a championship without dramatic improvements to the current roster. In fact, Toronto might be one more 1st round exit from just starting over. They flirt with rebuilding every year when they get bounced early in the playoffs. You want to know why? Because it is a superstars league. Teams with superstars win in the playoffs. We have Porzingis who is one of the leagues most likely young superstars. Getting a future star in the hardest thing to acquire. Toronto has 2 all-stars at their peaks. Neither is a franchise superstar. Celtics don't have that. So the "light years ahead" thing is not accurate.

They are so far ahead of us its not funny. Toronto can toy with us and they dont even have Demarre Carroll. And to improve the team if needed---they have a top 8 pick(ours) another 25 pick and just as much money as us with a better GM and coach? LOL???? I hate to break it to you Carmelo isnt a franchise superstar--if he was we wouldnt have lost more than we won since hes been here.

Yup. Though Toronto or Boston don't have any superstars, they have the assets and flexibility to change that rather quickly. They also have respected coaches and stability now.

We have KP, broken down Melo, no draft pick or enviable assets and jack shyt on the coaching front. 11 out of 10 knowledgeable basketball people would prefer to be in the Raps or C's shoes than the Knicks, that's for sure.

Sure but KP has the opportunity to be a top-5 NBA player in a few years. How does Toronto or Boston acquire that type of player? You need one of those to win.

What assets or flexibility do we have to get someone besides KP? Boston has several 1st rounders in the pipeline, they have several moveable desirable trade assets like Turner and Crowder and Olynyk and Sullinger. We have KP and that's it. Unless Melo waives his NTC, we have no draft pick this year, we have no real desirable players teams would want. Toronto could move Terence Ross, Scola, Carroll once he's healthy along with their stash of future draft picks to improve on their core of Derozan(if he resigns) and Lowry and Valanciunas.

So KP grows into a stud, so what? We'll be the New Orleans Pelicans basically. Maybe KP will put up 59 and 20 like Anthony Davis...but for what? NO room to really contend without picks or free agents coming. Toronto and Boston already have building blocks and solid base with good coaching, Knicks got jack shyt besides 1 Latvian phenom.

What good is flexibility or assets if you can't use them? Ainge has been trying for years to cash out. He almost traded 4 draft picks just to get Winslow. Imagine what he would trade for KP? You love to fall back on assets and flexibility because it is good in theory, but isn't worth a damn if it can't get you anything good. It's really just about opportunity that may or may not come. It's a good problem to have, don't get me wrong, but having a foundation piece already in place is a lot better than having a ton of spare parts you are trying to cash out for something big. And stop saying we have no picks, that idea is out-dating. After this season, we owe no more first round picks. We may not have the best situation in the league, we don't by a long stretch, but we have the hardest piece to find already in place. I would much rather have New Orleans team than Boston's. They have the piece everyone would die for, and a good GM will build around him properly. Danny Ainge has done a fantastic job acquiring assets while becoming extremely competitive at the same time. That's rare. He's one of the best in the business. But what happens if he cashes out for Kevin Love or Jahlil Okafor, and neither player moves the needle? Then what? The assets and flexibility are great in theory, now let's see them use them properly.

I will put it this way. I wouldn't take all of Boston's assets in exchange for KP.

great post. Its not about having picks, its about making THE pick. You can look at tons of examples of teams that had extended periods of high picks that actually made good choices on draft day but yielded nothing. The Bulls were horrible year after year with all the top 5 picks... Chandler, Curry, Marcus Fizer, Chris Mihm, Jay Williams, Hinrick, Ben Gordon... etc etc.. we can do this all day. I am very glad we have a GM that believes and uses the draft, and also is focused on developing players. The rest is patience and opportunity.

Ok, so we have "the pick". What's the plan now and why are we fake competing playing Melo heavy minutes and pretending like we're making a playoff run with Calderon at starting point guard?

You guys don't like Toronto and Boston's composition, that's fine....but at least they have a base and a plan in place. What is our plan? Our we competing now or are we building to the future? Are we playing vets or are we playing the youths? We just fired 3 guys(Rambis and Cleamons will be gone shortly) and we'll have another coaching search that hopefully Jackson won't flub this time...

We are trying to win now and prepare for the future. Why does it have to be one or the other? You can see Phil isn't trading picks so we aren't going all-in now. We aren't dealing players needlessly for future comp so we aren't going all-in rebuild. We are trying to find the right balance, and you know what? We are doing it. How does a team double it's win total AND find a future franchise player all in the same season? We have accomplished both to an extent. The plan from here is to add the best possible talent through free agency while not mortgaging the future. Purchase or trade for draft picks (Grant and Hermangomez) when we don't have them, and use our own picks (2017 and beyond) when we do have them. Pretty simple right? No we don't have the same opportunities to improve through the draft that Boston does, but its sort of ironic that they acquired all those picks to find something that we already have, right?

But what do we have really? We have KP, fine, he'll be the Latvian Anthony Davis. Melo is basically toast. His knees won't last the entirety of his contract, or if he somehow stays "healthy" he'll play 50-60 games like he usually does. Not much return on max money, right? If Phil is as stubborn as he seems to be, hire say Brian Shaw since Luke Walton won't touch us with a 12 foot pole. So we have mediocre Brian Shaw and we're still married to the triangle...then what? Rondo ain't coming here, Conley wants maximum dollars and he's the furthest thing from a triangle point. Get Batum? Why would he want to play with aging Melo who plays the same position?

So it comes down to KP and filling the roster with vagabonds and roster filler until our 2017 and 2018 1st rounder is available. KP becomes Latvian Unibrow. We become basically the New Orleans Pelicans. Mediocre but just good enough to crack the playoffs maybe.

Just wasted this entire season in fake competing hell instead of developing and giving playing time to younger players that could've been potentially running mates for KP. We still don't know what we have in Grant thanks to Fisher. Only bright spot this season is Lopez is a halfway decent center option most nights except against his brother.

Listen, you just asked what the plan was, and i gave you a very specific, detailed answer. If you are now asking what specific players are going to come here via free agency to make us a contender, then i can't answer that. But on the flipside, if Celtics cash out all of their future lottery picks for Kevin Love or Jahlil Okafor and have a core consisting of either player, Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, and Olynyk, and that team doesn't get passed the 2nd round in the east, then what? Our plan is going to be a drawn out process that likely won't fully come to fruition until Phil is gone and KP is approaching his prime years. Whether that includes Melo or not is irrelevant. He's playing good basketball and with the cap rising, will always be worth his contract to a team competing for a title if he decides to leave. But i am not talking about him. I am talking about building a team around a budding star that will eventually draw free agents to NY. What is the draw for free agents to Boston? Again, i will repeat, with all of their picks and assets, they are unlikely to acquire a player of KP's upside. I am not sure when we will get it right, but as i noted before, we have made significant progress in both the now (17 wins last season) and the future (KP.)

+1, excellent consecutive posts.

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:With the Raptors and Celtics light years ahead of filled with multiple high draft picks and massive cap space of their own--we will have little chance to make headways over the next 2-3 years. It would take a shocking free agent--as in Lebron for us to change the tide and its not happening(and then we still need 3 more guards lol)

The path Id take
trade Carmelo for picks young players and cap
Try but if season goes bad next year full tank for another top 5 pick
only purchase quality low cost free agents who are YOUNG.
Really work on style of play and player development
Bring in Luke Walton

I think there are several upperclassmen guards in college who can help this team--I really believe that. It will take time but Id rather have players that we hand pick and develop. Its time for us to get the next Drey green Manu Ginobli and Isiah Thomas

Raptors and Celtics are good, and will be good for awhile, but neither team is winning a championship without dramatic improvements to the current roster. In fact, Toronto might be one more 1st round exit from just starting over. They flirt with rebuilding every year when they get bounced early in the playoffs. You want to know why? Because it is a superstars league. Teams with superstars win in the playoffs. We have Porzingis who is one of the leagues most likely young superstars. Getting a future star in the hardest thing to acquire. Toronto has 2 all-stars at their peaks. Neither is a franchise superstar. Celtics don't have that. So the "light years ahead" thing is not accurate.

They are so far ahead of us its not funny. Toronto can toy with us and they dont even have Demarre Carroll. And to improve the team if needed---they have a top 8 pick(ours) another 25 pick and just as much money as us with a better GM and coach? LOL???? I hate to break it to you Carmelo isnt a franchise superstar--if he was we wouldnt have lost more than we won since hes been here.

You should read my response before you comment on it. When did i mention anything about Melo being a franchise player in the case? The goal is to win a championship, right? What indication do you have that Boston or Toronto is near championship level? Remember, Toronto was close to rebuilding last summer. Their best players are not getting any better. They have no up and coming stars on their roster. Boston has been trying for years to land a franchise-changing talent like KP, but to no avail yet. They are better teams now, but both have to make serious changes to prevent plateauing. Briggs, you need to learn some patience and understand that we have a player to build around (again, not Melo, before you say him again.) You are notorious around here for knee-jerk posts and over-exaggeration. How about enjoying the fact that we have made significant progess as a franchise (we will double our win total from last season at a minimum) and have a young up-and-coming star to build around going forward. This is something neither Toronto or Boston can claim that we can.

They're world beaters because they scrapped the Knicks...amiright?

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't get the panic some are expressing. We literally just drafted a core player and he's 20 years old. No matter what happens with Melo, this team will still be moving forward with KP at the core. We also have RoLo in his prime. The real issue is the starting Backcourt. Phil has to upgrade the PG and SG spots and he's gonna use every bit of his cap to try and address that. Once he does there's no question this team will be able to compete. We only really get toasted at the guard spots. There has been some progress so far. If not for the massive drop off of the backcourt this team could have sone some of these close games they've been losing. The last game was a blowout but many of these games have been closer.

It took Golden State 6 years after drafting Steph Curry to put together their title team. Curry was drafted in the 2009 draft and they won the title in 2015. This is year one of KP and so there is no rush to get this thing done.

Most our using the Golden State model as our template, with the rebuild beginning with KP like it did with Curry in 2009. It is worth noting that while Curry was drafted in 2009, GS bombed their lottery pick in 2010. The rest of their core (Thompson 2011, Barnes and Green 2012) were drafted the following years. Of these 4 core players, 3 were mid-to-late lottery picks and 1 was a 2nd round pick. Point is, we don't have a draft pick this summer, but we do the following 2 years. We will have to hit it out of the park in 2017 and 2018, but that falls along the same path that GS had.

Also KP is gonna need time to fully develop. So his timeline is much longer and we have time to put more pieces around him. We will most likely bring in Willy this summer and i'm sure Phil will find a way to get a pick as he's done each previous draft. That along with Free Agents will be part of this process.

jrodmc wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:With the Raptors and Celtics light years ahead of filled with multiple high draft picks and massive cap space of their own--we will have little chance to make headways over the next 2-3 years. It would take a shocking free agent--as in Lebron for us to change the tide and its not happening(and then we still need 3 more guards lol)

The path Id take
trade Carmelo for picks young players and cap
Try but if season goes bad next year full tank for another top 5 pick
only purchase quality low cost free agents who are YOUNG.
Really work on style of play and player development
Bring in Luke Walton

I think there are several upperclassmen guards in college who can help this team--I really believe that. It will take time but Id rather have players that we hand pick and develop. Its time for us to get the next Drey green Manu Ginobli and Isiah Thomas

Raptors and Celtics are good, and will be good for awhile, but neither team is winning a championship without dramatic improvements to the current roster. In fact, Toronto might be one more 1st round exit from just starting over. They flirt with rebuilding every year when they get bounced early in the playoffs. You want to know why? Because it is a superstars league. Teams with superstars win in the playoffs. We have Porzingis who is one of the leagues most likely young superstars. Getting a future star in the hardest thing to acquire. Toronto has 2 all-stars at their peaks. Neither is a franchise superstar. Celtics don't have that. So the "light years ahead" thing is not accurate.

They are so far ahead of us its not funny. Toronto can toy with us and they dont even have Demarre Carroll. And to improve the team if needed---they have a top 8 pick(ours) another 25 pick and just as much money as us with a better GM and coach? LOL???? I hate to break it to you Carmelo isnt a franchise superstar--if he was we wouldnt have lost more than we won since hes been here.

Yeah, I sure liked it alot more before this non-franchise superstar got here:

2009-10 29-53, .354, No playoffs
2008-09 32-50, .390, No playoffs
2007-08 23-59, .280, No playoffs
2006-07 33-49, .402, No playoffs
2005-06 23-59, .280, No playoffs

Yeah Knicks fans loved trading all of our picks to rebuild for Eddie Curry and Steph Marbury. And we also loved how Carmelo couldnt be patient for a few months and let us keep all the assets we needed to surround him with other good players. Yep a real Tim Duncan this Carmelo. If my math is right our superstar is well below .500 since he got here with 1 playoff win. So we still have scked--one year burp that was fixated on. Years ago Rick Pitino did the same thing.