Nalod wrote:The assignment of blame is always a useful tool to vent.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo is a liability all because of NTC. We cannot view him as an asset. His rate of depreciation is staggering with each passing year. The return rate of his service has diminished as a result of poor numbers and injury history which is starting to pile on. Even if the Knicks were to trade they would be luck to yield a top 5 pick. At best your looking at multiple mid to late round picks for him if he desires a change of scenery.

Melo has the Knicks basically held hostage. He knows he is no longer a top player and he knows the downside has started. Right now he doesn't even desire a championship or a run.

Agree with the first part he is a liability. But you can't trade liabilities unless you do a swap meaning you as acquire other liabilities. Or you can just write them off. We don't have any good options.

Mistake 1 - resigning Melo
MISTAKE 2 - NTC
Mistake 3 - Overpaying by anout 140%

Only the Knicks can make three mistake in one transaction. Huge fail on Dolan/ Phil

so when you remove the liability what is the Knicks record? And with the liability? Do you guys even think before you post? Are you Knick fans?

VMart can you quantify the bold statement? Melo's shot has been off, but this is his best year defensively, he's at his career high for rebounds and is above his career high in assists, oh.. and the team cant win without him on the floor. Kind of makes your liability statement look not so clever.

You guys are like grumpy monkeys. This shiny object isn't fun to play with anymore. You need a new shiny object.

had a feeling fishmike or jrdomc would lead the melo bridgade. Listen I personally have been happy with melo this year and im ok if he stays. However I still feel a trade would be beneficial for both sides. Melo can have a chance to win a title and we can use the picks/assets to continue to build around KP

Well said and i agree. It's just so annoying how much people cry about crap on here and just look for things to hate on. If it's not Fisher it's Calderon or Melo or Phil or.............................give it a break and stop hating so much. We'd be nowhere without Melo and hating on someone that actually wants to be here and wants to bring this city/team a championship is absolutely ridiculous. If Melo was on another team right now and never played for us and his name was on the trade block i guarantee you the people that are hating on him now would be hoping we could trade for him.

No hating--Id just rather do whats in the best interests for the KNicks. Would I rather have 2 Brooklyn picks David Lee and Jae Crwoder--I mean come on. I might think Id rather have Crwoder than Melo straight up for the longer term than add in the picks and cap space??????

No hating? I call bull****. What's the señorita crap about?

Hes a pssy for holding up the Knicks. Hes held up the Knicks 3 times in 5 years--not in the teams best interests. If he had a chance to go to Clev--Jeees Id say that 99% of athletes would like to win a championship or give it a great try.

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo is a liability all because of NTC. We cannot view him as an asset. His rate of depreciation is staggering with each passing year. The return rate of his service has diminished as a result of poor numbers and injury history which is starting to pile on. Even if the Knicks were to trade they would be luck to yield a top 5 pick. At best your looking at multiple mid to late round picks for him if he desires a change of scenery.

Melo has the Knicks basically held hostage. He knows he is no longer a top player and he knows the downside has started. Right now he doesn't even desire a championship or a run.

Agree with the first part he is a liability. But you can't trade liabilities unless you do a swap meaning you as acquire other liabilities. Or you can just write them off. We don't have any good options.

Mistake 1 - resigning Melo
MISTAKE 2 - NTC
Mistake 3 - Overpaying by anout 140%

Only the Knicks can make three mistake in one transaction. Huge fail on Dolan/ Phil

so when you remove the liability what is the Knicks record? And with the liability? Do you guys even think before you post? Are you Knick fans?

VMart can you quantify the bold statement? Melo's shot has been off, but this is his best year defensively, he's at his career high for rebounds and is above his career high in assists, oh.. and the team cant win without him on the floor. Kind of makes your liability statement look not so clever.

You guys are like grumpy monkeys. This shiny object isn't fun to play with anymore. You need a new shiny object.

had a feeling fishmike or jrdomc would lead the melo bridgade. Listen I personally have been happy with melo this year and im ok if he stays. However I still feel a trade would be beneficial for both sides. Melo can have a chance to win a title and we can use the picks/assets to continue to build around KP

Well said and i agree. It's just so annoying how much people cry about crap on here and just look for things to hate on. If it's not Fisher it's Calderon or Melo or Phil or.............................give it a break and stop hating so much. We'd be nowhere without Melo and hating on someone that actually wants to be here and wants to bring this city/team a championship is absolutely ridiculous. If Melo was on another team right now and never played for us and his name was on the trade block i guarantee you the people that are hating on him now would be hoping we could trade for him.

No hating--Id just rather do whats in the best interests for the KNicks. Would I rather have 2 Brooklyn picks David Lee and Jae Crwoder--I mean come on. I might think Id rather have Crwoder than Melo straight up for the longer term than add in the picks and cap space??????

No hating? I call bull****. What's the señorita crap about?

Hes a pssy for holding up the Knicks.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo is a liability all because of NTC. We cannot view him as an asset. His rate of depreciation is staggering with each passing year. The return rate of his service has diminished as a result of poor numbers and injury history which is starting to pile on. Even if the Knicks were to trade they would be luck to yield a top 5 pick. At best your looking at multiple mid to late round picks for him if he desires a change of scenery.

Melo has the Knicks basically held hostage. He knows he is no longer a top player and he knows the downside has started. Right now he doesn't even desire a championship or a run.

Agree with the first part he is a liability. But you can't trade liabilities unless you do a swap meaning you as acquire other liabilities. Or you can just write them off. We don't have any good options.

Mistake 1 - resigning Melo
MISTAKE 2 - NTC
Mistake 3 - Overpaying by anout 140%

Only the Knicks can make three mistake in one transaction. Huge fail on Dolan/ Phil

so when you remove the liability what is the Knicks record? And with the liability? Do you guys even think before you post? Are you Knick fans?

VMart can you quantify the bold statement? Melo's shot has been off, but this is his best year defensively, he's at his career high for rebounds and is above his career high in assists, oh.. and the team cant win without him on the floor. Kind of makes your liability statement look not so clever.

You guys are like grumpy monkeys. This shiny object isn't fun to play with anymore. You need a new shiny object.

had a feeling fishmike or jrdomc would lead the melo bridgade. Listen I personally have been happy with melo this year and im ok if he stays. However I still feel a trade would be beneficial for both sides. Melo can have a chance to win a title and we can use the picks/assets to continue to build around KP

Well said and i agree. It's just so annoying how much people cry about crap on here and just look for things to hate on. If it's not Fisher it's Calderon or Melo or Phil or.............................give it a break and stop hating so much. We'd be nowhere without Melo and hating on someone that actually wants to be here and wants to bring this city/team a championship is absolutely ridiculous. If Melo was on another team right now and never played for us and his name was on the trade block i guarantee you the people that are hating on him now would be hoping we could trade for him.

No hating--Id just rather do whats in the best interests for the KNicks. Would I rather have 2 Brooklyn picks David Lee and Jae Crwoder--I mean come on. I might think Id rather have Crwoder than Melo straight up for the longer term than add in the picks and cap space??????

No hating? I call bull****. What's the señorita crap about?

Hes a pssy for holding up the Knicks.

So you are hating. You aren't talking like some dispassionate business man. You sound like a jilted lover.

I guess as a fan I know hes just going to gpo south here and Id rather build around KP with 20-27 years olds who can stay together. Hes a good player just not for this team. Much better for Cleveland. Thats why we are 23-32 and perhaps luck to be that.

who wants to bet me a $100 that he plays 90% of the games during his five year contract, and that his production is anywhere close to his career averages?

BRIGGS wrote:I guess as a fan I know hes just going to gpo south here and Id rather build around KP with 20-27 years olds who can stay together. Hes a good player just not for this team. Much better for Cleveland. Thats why we are 23-32 and perhaps luck to be that.

Guys will decline as they get older but that doesn't mean they aren't still effective. There are a LOT of NBA players who have been major contributors well into their 30's. The metrics guys have already determined that Melo is more likely to age gracefully and still be effective well into his 30's.

If we make good use of our cap this summer this team can make the needed improvements at the same time that we still have Melo to help make a smoother transition for KP. This team is going to get younger as we move out the older guys that aren't giving us much. So really there's no sense in worrying about Melo's presence on the roster. He's a positive for this team and should remain so as they continue to add to the talent and develop the younger players.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Jim Dolan has done the same thing with Carmelo as he did with isiah. He made a terrible trade that hamstrung the team twice once with the original and second with bargain. Now his idiot move to give a ntc has stuck is in the mid with him He could've left for clev and we would've had multi assets to improve which is what we needed to do. So were stuck with him and will be forced. By him to over pay for a pro pg either through free agency or trade and it still Wong be near enough

Assets??? your going to give a player a max contract and then trade him a yr later (if he didn't have the NTC)how assinine would that look.

You act as if Melo is a overrated, or a bad influence..relax brigg

more of the same from the same posters over and over and over. At least Guns cant write about his concerns regarding any young players developing.

Lets recap this thread:
Knicks cant win a game without Melo, but he's a liability.
Melo's play is dropping at an incredible rate, but he's at career highs in rebounding and assists and defense.

Am I missing anything?

I actually have no problem trading Melo either. His health is a factor as is his age. I do think (especially after seeing the changes in his game this year) that he can be a highly effective player as he gets older (*IF* he is healthy). Also look at KP's confidence when Melo is on the floor. Melo has a very positive influence on this team on the court and off. That's just using one's eyes. Liability. Wow.

Yeah, you completely missed the whole retreaded ahole argument about the first Trade, that Melo kept us from winning chips with the broken Rooster gang that turned Denver into... nothing.

This board has more whiney, beeyatching menstrual cycles then a gyno's office.

I can't wait for the next Briggs thread telling us how KP's not playing up to his potential because EvilMeloDolan is keeping him down.

Credibility. And how.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo is a liability all because of NTC. We cannot view him as an asset. His rate of depreciation is staggering with each passing year. The return rate of his service has diminished as a result of poor numbers and injury history which is starting to pile on. Even if the Knicks were to trade they would be luck to yield a top 5 pick. At best your looking at multiple mid to late round picks for him if he desires a change of scenery.

Melo has the Knicks basically held hostage. He knows he is no longer a top player and he knows the downside has started. Right now he doesn't even desire a championship or a run.

Agree with the first part he is a liability. But you can't trade liabilities unless you do a swap meaning you as acquire other liabilities. Or you can just write them off. We don't have any good options.

Mistake 1 - resigning Melo
MISTAKE 2 - NTC
Mistake 3 - Overpaying by anout 140%

Only the Knicks can make three mistake in one transaction. Huge fail on Dolan/ Phil

so when you remove the liability what is the Knicks record? And with the liability? Do you guys even think before you post? Are you Knick fans?

VMart can you quantify the bold statement? Melo's shot has been off, but this is his best year defensively, he's at his career high for rebounds and is above his career high in assists, oh.. and the team cant win without him on the floor. Kind of makes your liability statement look not so clever.

You guys are like grumpy monkeys. This shiny object isn't fun to play with anymore. You need a new shiny object.

had a feeling fishmike or jrdomc would lead the melo bridgade. Listen I personally have been happy with melo this year and im ok if he stays. However I still feel a trade would be beneficial for both sides. Melo can have a chance to win a title and we can use the picks/assets to continue to build around KP

Well said and i agree. It's just so annoying how much people cry about crap on here and just look for things to hate on. If it's not Fisher it's Calderon or Melo or Phil or.............................give it a break and stop hating so much. We'd be nowhere without Melo and hating on someone that actually wants to be here and wants to bring this city/team a championship is absolutely ridiculous. If Melo was on another team right now and never played for us and his name was on the trade block i guarantee you the people that are hating on him now would be hoping we could trade for him.

No hating--Id just rather do whats in the best interests for the KNicks. Would I rather have 2 Brooklyn picks David Lee and Jae Crwoder--I mean come on. I might think Id rather have Crwoder than Melo straight up for the longer term than add in the picks and cap space??????

No hating? I call bull****. What's the señorita crap about?

Hes a pssy for holding up the Knicks.

yup... good unbiased posting there

Very astute analysis as well. I bet Melo's a liar who hates winning, too.

Panos wrote:

Chandler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Jim Dolan has done the same thing with Carmelo as he did with isiah. He made a terrible trade that hamstrung the team twice once with the original and second with bargain. Now his idiot move to give a ntc has stuck is in the mid with him He could've left for clev and we would've had multi assets to improve which is what we needed to do. So were stuck with him and will be forced. By him to over pay for a pro pg either through free agency or trade and it still Wong be near enough

Another dumb Briggs thread. You've been making a bunch of threads lately and a lot of them are about the same thing or player that you've already made threads about so it's hard to keep up.

No you dont give someone a no trade clause. Worse is the Knicks OBVIOUSLY with a shadow of a doubt want to move on from Melo and they are giving him playing next to LBJ and he refuses. Almost EVERY Knick fan wants that deal--but its held up by Senorita Melo and his selfish ways.

I disagree. Lots of players have NTC and if they're good enough I don't begrudge them for it. What if we were trying to trade him to Philly for all sorts of picks. The players and their agents are smart

At a minimum it gives them a trade kicker, e.g., yes I'll agree to trade but want a new, longer deal. More likely it protects them from Philly and the like

And you're ignoring that Melo, while the deal was sweet, actually took less money. Phil offered a max and Melo left on the table more money than many people make in a lifetime. On top of that, while playing with LBJ would be sweet for him, he was public that he wants to win here. How can you not respect the guy for that

I don't know if it's possible in the NBA, the way it is in football, but what would be really sweet is if we could renegotiate Melo to take less than max the way Dirk did in Dallas or Brady did with Pats.

Think how happy everyone would be then

Wrong. 6 players have NTCs.
Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwyane Wade.
Only one player on that list has not won MULTIPLE NBA Championships, OR both a NBA Championship AND an NBA MVP.

Regardless of whether Melo should be traded or not at this particular moment,
I have to agree with Briggs that the Knicks should not have agreed to the NTC.
As a sports franchise, you need flexibility in changing your personnel when opportunities arise.
The Knicks have suffered being stuck with bad contracts so many times in the last decade or two. Why tie yourself to
one player for 5 years without even the possibility of moving him if you need to and you find a willing partner?
Want to give a NTC for 2 years, sure, but 5? I wouldn't have done it. No way. I said it then and I still believe it now.
If it was a deal breaker, (which I doubt, I would have called his bluff), then I would have
let him walk and rebuilt another way. The life of a Knicks fan has constantly been looking off to the future just waiting
for albatross contracts to expire. I don't think Melo is an albatross just yet, but I don't have faith in those knees, and
I'd bet money, I'll be using that word before this contract is up.

Knicks never learn their lessons. Just like with giving away unprotected picks. Stop the madness.