Trying to mimic the GS system is a recipe for ultimate defeat. To be clear, you won't beat GS at such a game unless you think (1) you can get better personnel than them or (2) a better coach, and realistically you might need both. Copying is not the answer. Even if you got equivalent personnel you'd lose because GS would have the benefit of all that experience together

Our best hope is to have a different system. I think the triangle can work. Reasonable minds can differ about what system they like.

Let GS run all over the court, but let's limit them to outside shots and take our lumps with that. Then let's keep them out of the paint, and use our length to get all the rebounds and take our shots closer to the basket.

NO we're not close to contending with GS yet. But the idea of let's do what the other guys are doing is short-sighted. It might get you some wins in the short term but it won't get what you really want, which is a title.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Guys who have to go

Carmelo--various reasons and I think we can still get back a decent haul

Lopez--liked the way he ahs played at times good guy --but I need the cap space and I think he can bring assets--also I dont thin he and kp fit.This is why we are getting off to bad starts.

D Will--He may opt out and he may be trade able for a 2nd rounder why--he doesnt pass and cant shoot the 3 although he has value as a 7th/8th man--just not here.

Calderon--decent player not for this team going 4ward probably have to waive and stretch him for the cap space.

Oquinn--just doesnt fit--but his 4mm per year makes him movable.

KOQ and Lopez just signed to be here for specific reasons. You have no concern about trading guys in the first year of a 4 year deal? You do understand how that looks to potential FAs? You understand these are people and they talk to other people that have the same job?

Nope I could care less--its part of taking in big salaries.

And I know you dont manage people for a living. Or if you do manage them well....

Has nothing to do with that. Has everything to do with building a team that makes sense. I dont think having Robin making 13+mm makes sense--we need a more mobile team and that means putting KP at starting 5 next year. Were NOT winning anything with Lopez KP and Carmelo--so either you change it or accept losing.

The Lopez/Melo/KP tandem is excellent and could be elite frontcourt very quickly. The Knicks have a guard problem.

BRIGGS wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:C KP
F Batum (4 year max)
G Valentine (later first rd pick)
G Derozan(4 year max)
G Schveyd (4 years 22mm)

C Boban (4 years 22mm)
F Lance Thomas (3 years 10mm)
G Affalo
G Grant
G Felder (2nd round pick)

That's an awful, perpetual lottery team unless KP becomes superman as a sophmore. DeRozan is overrated. Schved is a career 35% shooter. Batum as Power forward Im not sure how that works. Boban is basically a pop culture sensation and a role player. I like Lance. Afflalo sucks, doesnt pass, doesnt rebound if his shot is off he is a huge net negative. Grant I like but he is far from a sure thing at this point. Valentine and Felder I am assuming are draft picks who are coming out this year so who knows what theyll be. But yeah, this looks like a disaster. Sorry cant get on board.

You dont watch much NBA then.

LOL. You know what? You're opinion is no better than anyone elses and frankly most of your "ideas" are flat out laughable. Maybe nobody calls you on it cause you've been here for so long but in typical fashion you never argue with anyone who disagrees you just continue on or throw an insult around. Maybe get off your high horse and go get a job with an NBA front office since you're such a savant/talent evaluator.

Chandler wrote:This is total crazy talk! Lets blow up the team, and mimic GS

Trying to mimic the GS system is a recipe for ultimate defeat. To be clear, you won't beat GS at such a game unless you think (1) you can get better personnel than them or (2) a better coach, and realistically you might need both. Copying is not the answer. Even if you got equivalent personnel you'd lose because GS would have the benefit of all that experience together

Our best hope is to have a different system. I think the triangle can work. Reasonable minds can differ about what system they like.

Let GS run all over the court, but let's limit them to outside shots and take our lumps with that. Then let's keep them out of the paint, and use our length to get all the rebounds and take our shots closer to the basket.

NO we're not close to contending with GS yet. But the idea of let's do what the other guys are doing is short-sighted. It might get you some wins in the short term but it won't get what you really want, which is a title.

GS just got it right fast. We have a great player in KP--hes going to be great. Getting a mobile 4 like Batum--even overpaying for him sets up a beautiful frontline if we can get Boban for 5 years 22mm and keeping Thomas(for now) that gives us a LOT of skill rim protection and mobility on both units. And YEP Id be copy catting the Warriors by finding 6 guards. I can keep Affalo and Grant--I think they can work --we need a SECOND PG to play WITH GRant. Thats what he had at Notre Dame with Jackson. Deozan would he come here? I mean youre betting hed come to NY instead of Toronto--its a much better bet than almost any other FA. These two FA have some legitimacy of coming here. Im not spending max money on Mike Conley. If Im giving up Lopez and CA I need picks and I need them this year. I need certain players--so it all goes together.

Its much easier to say lets keep it together and add a PG right? But CA isnt going to stay healthy Lopez and KP TOGETHER are too slow and we need to put together a 2 and 3 rd unit that MAKES sense--not have guys because they are vets etc.. have guys that fit the team and have a couple of spots that house future players. Having a Lou Admundson did absolutely nothing for this team AT the bottom line it had ZERO value. We have a player we can play faster with--why do I want to pair him with a slow 7-0 260 guy for???? This not 1998 anymore. I want guys who are VERY smart skilled passers guards with diversity etc... that I can put a unit out for any 48 minutes that brings force and or speed--that puts tremendous pressure on the other squad.

Chandler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Chandler wrote:This is total crazy talk! Lets blow up the team, and mimic GS

Trying to mimic the GS system is a recipe for ultimate defeat. To be clear, you won't beat GS at such a game unless you think (1) you can get better personnel than them or (2) a better coach, and realistically you might need both. Copying is not the answer. Even if you got equivalent personnel you'd lose because GS would have the benefit of all that experience together

Our best hope is to have a different system. I think the triangle can work. Reasonable minds can differ about what system they like.

Let GS run all over the court, but let's limit them to outside shots and take our lumps with that. Then let's keep them out of the paint, and use our length to get all the rebounds and take our shots closer to the basket.

NO we're not close to contending with GS yet. But the idea of let's do what the other guys are doing is short-sighted. It might get you some wins in the short term but it won't get what you really want, which is a title.

GS just got it right fast. We have a great player in KP--hes going to be great. Getting a mobile 4 like Batum--even overpaying for him sets up a beautiful frontline if we can get Boban for 5 years 22mm and keeping Thomas(for now) that gives us a LOT of skill rim protection and mobility on both units. And YEP Id be copy catting the Warriors by finding 6 guards. I can keep Affalo and Grant--I think they can work --we need a SECOND PG to play WITH GRant. Thats what he had at Notre Dame with Jackson. Deozan would he come here? I mean youre betting hed come to NY instead of Toronto--its a much better bet than almost any other FA. These two FA have some legitimacy of coming here. Im not spending max money on Mike Conley. If Im giving up Lopez and CA I need picks and I need them this year. I need certain players--so it all goes together.

Its much easier to say lets keep it together and add a PG right? But CA isnt going to stay healthy Lopez and KP TOGETHER are too slow and we need to put together a 2 and 3 rd unit that MAKES sense--not have guys because they are vets etc.. have guys that fit the team and have a couple of spots that house future players. Having a Lou Admundson did absolutely nothing for this team AT the bottom line it had ZERO value. We have a player we can play faster with--why do I want to pair him with a slow 7-0 260 guy for???? This not 1998 anymore. I want guys who are VERY smart skilled passers guards with diversity etc... that I can put a unit out for any 48 minutes that brings force and or speed--that puts tremendous pressure on the other squad.

You can't copy the GS system and beat them wo having better players than them and a coach. Your scenario fails and is nuts

It's a cathartic response because you're frustrated with the losing and want to blow up what's frustrating you

Nope I just realize its a guards league now and we need to go in that direction. We need more mobile players--quicker players. Players who emphasize ball movement and have the ability to shoot the 3 ball. I dont see a winning team playing 2 7 footers. You can do it for small periods but the rules and speed of the game dont favor it. We have a great player--we can create a LOT of space inside for him playing 4-1. I think we can get what we need from the 5 by signing the back up C for San Antonio for probably 8mm less than what Lopez makes. Listen R Lopez has been good the last 20 games but weve also lost 10 of those 11. I mean weve been down 20 at home how many times to bad teams? Id rather have Batum and Derozan than Lopez and Carmelo. These guys played as well as they can and they still got beat at home to a bad team. Just think about it. We are not playing the right way

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:Melo trades are as equally entertaining as threads regarding who we will pick if we make the lottery. Both an equal waste of time.

I never understood that attiude. People in your camp pretend that NTCs can't be waived. KG had two and was traded both times despite him being emmensely loyal. Needless to say, Melo can and hopefully will be dealt (stated by a huge Melo fan that is a bigger Knick fan).

right... I equally dont understand the attitude that because something immensely rare happening one place means it can happen in another. Also KG waived it after being convinced by Paul Pierce, and waived it again when the Brooklyn situation was a total disaster. KG waiving his clause does not mean "it happens."

Got any other examples? Is there anything in the KG situation that resembles ours? Pretty sure the answer is a big NO to both, but feel free to write a few paragraphs. If you are thinking up trade scenarios with Melo you must have time on your hands. Entertain us...

No-trade clauses are by definition, rare. So you criticize the KG situation as being "rare" or an exception to the rule seems....misguided. Aside from him, I can only think of Kobe who has one....maybe Duncan on the Spurs. And if that is the case, then no-trade clauses have been waived 33%-50% of the time, which isn't exactly a "rare" occurrence.

ok, how about common sense? Why did Melo sign a contract to play in NY?

At least make these stupid proposals a viable destination, and there is really only 1... LA. Do you really think he's waiving his clause to play in Utah or some of these other places? Is that common sense? Waste of time and space.

Dude, calm your ass down. If views that differ from your own are so upsetting then maybe a forum for the exchange of ideas isn't for you.

To answer your question, Melo re-signed here because it was the more financially viable option. He managed to get higher annual raises, an additional year to his contract and immediate access to the largest economic market on the face of the Earth ALL gauranteed. Simply put, we were a sound business decision especially for a guy entering the twilight of his career and whose body is about to pull an Amar'e. I also think that the idea of playing for Phil Jackson made him feel a bit more optimistic about us being competitive. But given Melo's track record, money and the bright lights are what is appealing to him (which is why he left a better DEN team to come here via trade instead of free agency).

The NTC was not some act of undying loyalty for the franchise on his part, it was a means to ensure that his fascination with the "bright lights", the only element of his contract that was NOT guaranteed, could be maintained even if it wasn't in NY. Now, he has the ability to pick where he wants to go with his gauranteed money. And fortunately for him, there are other cities that break about even with us given their financial markets AND ability to be a contender. Like you mentioned LAC is one of them. I also think that MIA and CHI, the 4th and 3rd largest markets in the country, have a puncher's chance as well. All 3 teams can produce compelling packages that would allow them to still be a contender if they traded for him and have the spare assets to satisfy us. Outside of those 3, I don't see Melo going anywhere. But those 3 are compelling enough where I think it would happen when we are ready to pull the plug.

OR anyplace with no state income tax. This dude will go anywhere for more money.

Chandler wrote:This is total crazy talk! Lets blow up the team, and mimic GS

Trying to mimic the GS system is a recipe for ultimate defeat. To be clear, you won't beat GS at such a game unless you think (1) you can get better personnel than them or (2) a better coach, and realistically you might need both. Copying is not the answer. Even if you got equivalent personnel you'd lose because GS would have the benefit of all that experience together

Our best hope is to have a different system. I think the triangle can work. Reasonable minds can differ about what system they like.

Let GS run all over the court, but let's limit them to outside shots and take our lumps with that. Then let's keep them out of the paint, and use our length to get all the rebounds and take our shots closer to the basket.

NO we're not close to contending with GS yet. But the idea of let's do what the other guys are doing is short-sighted. It might get you some wins in the short term but it won't get what you really want, which is a title.

It all comes back to having the worst guards in then NBA. Unfortunately had we had our pick this year there is no doubt in my mind the Knicks would be in the playoffs next year because we would have 2 new guard starters. Without that pick its going to take 2 more offseasons to get this turned around.

Chandler wrote:This is total crazy talk! Lets blow up the team, and mimic GS

Trying to mimic the GS system is a recipe for ultimate defeat. To be clear, you won't beat GS at such a game unless you think (1) you can get better personnel than them or (2) a better coach, and realistically you might need both. Copying is not the answer. Even if you got equivalent personnel you'd lose because GS would have the benefit of all that experience together

Our best hope is to have a different system. I think the triangle can work. Reasonable minds can differ about what system they like.

Let GS run all over the court, but let's limit them to outside shots and take our lumps with that. Then let's keep them out of the paint, and use our length to get all the rebounds and take our shots closer to the basket.

NO we're not close to contending with GS yet. But the idea of let's do what the other guys are doing is short-sighted. It might get you some wins in the short term but it won't get what you really want, which is a title.

It all comes back to having the worst guards in then NBA. Unfortunately had we had our pick this year there is no doubt in my mind the Knicks would be in the playoffs next year because we would have 2 new guard starters. Without that pick its going to take 2 more offseasons to get this turned around.

Chandler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:Melo trades are as equally entertaining as threads regarding who we will pick if we make the lottery. Both an equal waste of time.

I never understood that attiude. People in your camp pretend that NTCs can't be waived. KG had two and was traded both times despite him being emmensely loyal. Needless to say, Melo can and hopefully will be dealt (stated by a huge Melo fan that is a bigger Knick fan).

right... I equally dont understand the attitude that because something immensely rare happening one place means it can happen in another. Also KG waived it after being convinced by Paul Pierce, and waived it again when the Brooklyn situation was a total disaster. KG waiving his clause does not mean "it happens."

Got any other examples? Is there anything in the KG situation that resembles ours? Pretty sure the answer is a big NO to both, but feel free to write a few paragraphs. If you are thinking up trade scenarios with Melo you must have time on your hands. Entertain us...

fish - congratulations on regaining exclusive control of the Fish moniker with only a slight reference to a past Knick coach.

Be careful lest you end up like him- tossed out like yesterdays Briggs thread of instanta fix knick roster overnight transformation into G State 2.0 East.

I will say I think we should be smart to evaluate trade scenarios at the deadline that involve us considering selling assets in return for long term prospects. I'd even consider trading Porzingas if the deal was obscene enough - think Boston and all their draft picks.

Is a Melo trade likely? No. I wish, because I think he has too many miles on his body to remain healthy and productive enough over the life of his contract.

Hope I'm wrong!

does this forum ban posters? you said the ineffable

LOL, everyone has a pricetag in the NBA. Should the Pelicans decide to jettison their big contracts, along with Anthony Davis and rebuild...I'd be willing to pony up Porzingis....if I wanted to win-now. Add Russell Westbrook in 2017 and you have the makings for a young, gimmicky contender, lol.

I'm reporting you to the banning authorities too

Totally against. Bad karma and bad luck. Not saying it hasn't happened I just can't remember. what trade like that has been a success for us? Melo? Mcdyess? Larry johnson?

KP is a unicorn I have a hard time remembering any rookie who looked like the best player on the court so often. Once he gets consistency and develops one or two go-to moves we'll be an elite team. He needs one when guarded by smal guys and another for bigs. It's in his capabilities. Just not in his Arsenal yet.