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Knicks 2016 Cap and all trades/FA ideas
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martin
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1/22/2016  11:21 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:A year ago or even 4 months ago if I told any of you guys that Derrick Williams would be our 3rd best player on most nights, you'd all laugh. It's all about a role and fitting in for some of these guys. Lance Stephenson fits in with a lot of what we try to do. He's very versatile on both sides of the ball. He can initiate an offense. He can drive. He's a good defender. The teams he's been on the last few years haven't been using him the way I think we would. He's only 25 years old. He'd be a very very smart pick up for us, if after speaking with Phil he would commit to us the way Derrick Williams has. All depends on what type of relationship or conversation he has with Phil.

The way we run our O and D - his versatility would fit in right away. I think you'd see the Indiana version of Stephenson moreso than the Clipper/Hornets version.

man Stephenson has so much talent but his brain seems to be built just like JRSmiths

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yellowboy90
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1/24/2016  7:16 PM
I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.
mreinman
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1/24/2016  7:19 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

for whom?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
BRIGGS
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1/24/2016  7:23 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
I agree. This team is going to be better next year even if we don't add any free agents. Ideally, D-Will and AA will not opt out of their deals, and then we can make a huge FA push in the summer of 2017. KP and Grant will be better next year, and Galloway, D-Will, and Thomas still can improve. There is no need to overspend for a marginal upgrade. We should wait until a true young superstar becomes available

This is how I see it. The Knicks for years have overpaid players who had a reputation they earned elsewhere. We should reward guys who earn it here - like DWill, Lance Thomas and Galloway have. Obviously within reason. Then we should look for players who are either truly a star worth the maximum such as Durant(who I know won't likely have interest) or simply keep doing what we did this past summer. Many were upset with Phil's lack of big moves this past summer but he brought in guys that fit in and it has worked out accordingly. You have a young group in Lopez (27), Porzingis (20), Williams (24), Galloway (24) and Grant (23) along with a veteran all-star in Melo. You blow all your wad on 1 good but not great player and then you're left with little flexibilty to keep getting better moving forward. What if the guy you sign isn't enough to get you past Cleveland?

I throw out names like Lance Stephenson and even Eric Gordon only because they could come for well below what they've been making in a time where guys are being overpaid hand over foot. Getting bargains like we did with Derrick Williams and Afflalo is the way to keep going. You don't blow your max type of money on Mike Conley's or DeRozan's even. These guys aren't superstars. They won't elevate you to the level of Golden State is at.

Agree with you. We did well spreading it around. If a Durant takes the max here of course but guys like Batum and Conley are not max players. The one big negative is 28 teams will have significant cap space next year

RIP Crushalot😞
yellowboy90
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1/24/2016  7:37 PM
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

for whom?

I want Collinson and McLemore but that maybe to much. AA's value is hard to comprehend because despite info saying he is just an avg/near avg player, teams still give up a fair amount of good assets. On the safe side a deal for just McLemore and filler.

I know McLemore numbers do not look good but to me he is a stock that is on the rise. He has improved every year and is still young enough to be helped by the triangle.

I'm my super hopeful GM mind a bigger trade is made.

NY - Collinson, McLemore, Holiday

Sac - AA, Calderon, Ryan Anderson, NY's(Hou) 2017 2nd ok

N.O. - Gay, NY's 2018 or 2019 1st rd ok(lottery protected)

mreinman
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1/24/2016  7:40 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

for whom?

I want Collinson and McLemore but that maybe to much. AA's value is hard to comprehend because despite info saying he is just an avg/near avg player, teams still give up a fair amount of good assets. On the safe side a deal for just McLemore and filler.

I know McLemore numbers do not look good but to me he is a stock that is on the rise. He has improved every year and is still young enough to be helped by the triangle.

I'm my super hopeful GM mind a bigger trade is made.

NY - Collinson, McLemore, Holiday

Sac - AA, Calderon, Ryan Anderson, NY's(Hou) 2017 2nd ok

N.O. - Gay, NY's 2018 or 2019 1st rd ok(lottery protected)

you had me at hello

so here is what phil is thinking ....
yellowboy90
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1/24/2016  7:53 PM
Another call I make is to Houston for a D.Williams/ Terrance Jones swap. I actually hope Houston would call the Knicks so they'd be in the driver's seat. Jones is rumored to be on the block. I don't know why though.

D.Will has grown on me and I would keep him if it was a choice between him or AA in the summer. However, if the Knicks could get Jones or Jones + extra I'd be very interested. Jones is having a bad year but he was a good player. He is not as athletic as Williams but he is still very athletic plus he is the better defender, rebounder, shot blk, and shooter.

Why would Houston do it? There desperate to win know and between Harden, Howard, and Williams losing teams would have 2/3 of their team in foul trouble by halftime.

mreinman
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1/24/2016  7:55 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:Another call I make is to Houston for a D.Williams/ Terrance Jones swap. I actually hope Houston would call the Knicks so they'd be in the driver's seat. Jones is rumored to be on the block. I don't know why though.

D.Will has grown on me and I would keep him if it was a choice between him or AA in the summer. However, if the Knicks could get Jones or Jones + extra I'd be very interested. Jones is having a bad year but he was a good player. He is not as athletic as Williams but he is still very athletic plus he is the better defender, rebounder, shot blk, and shooter.

Why would Houston do it? There desperate to win know and between Harden, Howard, and Williams losing teams would have 2/3 of their team in foul trouble by halftime.

I'll stick with DWil

so here is what phil is thinking ....
newyorker4ever
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1/24/2016  7:58 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
I agree. This team is going to be better next year even if we don't add any free agents. Ideally, D-Will and AA will not opt out of their deals, and then we can make a huge FA push in the summer of 2017. KP and Grant will be better next year, and Galloway, D-Will, and Thomas still can improve. There is no need to overspend for a marginal upgrade. We should wait until a true young superstar becomes available

This is how I see it. The Knicks for years have overpaid players who had a reputation they earned elsewhere. We should reward guys who earn it here - like DWill, Lance Thomas and Galloway have. Obviously within reason. Then we should look for players who are either truly a star worth the maximum such as Durant(who I know won't likely have interest) or simply keep doing what we did this past summer. Many were upset with Phil's lack of big moves this past summer but he brought in guys that fit in and it has worked out accordingly. You have a young group in Lopez (27), Porzingis (20), Williams (24), Galloway (24) and Grant (23) along with a veteran all-star in Melo. You blow all your wad on 1 good but not great player and then you're left with little flexibilty to keep getting better moving forward. What if the guy you sign isn't enough to get you past Cleveland?

I throw out names like Lance Stephenson and even Eric Gordon only because they could come for well below what they've been making in a time where guys are being overpaid hand over foot. Getting bargains like we did with Derrick Williams and Afflalo is the way to keep going. You don't blow your max type of money on Mike Conley's or DeRozan's even. These guys aren't superstars. They won't elevate you to the level of Golden State is at.


But guys like E.Gordon and L.Stephenson aren't gonna give us anything that would be worth what we'd have to pay for them and Stephenson is an absolute clown on the court which i don't want on my team. The New York media would have a field day with the antics he pulls on the court with blowing in guys ears and all the other crap he does and it would end up being a circus which we don't want. Phil will find the right guys and i don't think Stephenson will be one of them.
yellowboy90
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1/24/2016  8:04 PM
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Another call I make is to Houston for a D.Williams/ Terrance Jones swap. I actually hope Houston would call the Knicks so they'd be in the driver's seat. Jones is rumored to be on the block. I don't know why though.

D.Will has grown on me and I would keep him if it was a choice between him or AA in the summer. However, if the Knicks could get Jones or Jones + extra I'd be very interested. Jones is having a bad year but he was a good player. He is not as athletic as Williams but he is still very athletic plus he is the better defender, rebounder, shot blk, and shooter.

Why would Houston do it? There desperate to win know and between Harden, Howard, and Williams losing teams would have 2/3 of their team in foul trouble by halftime.

I'll stick with DWil

I can understand why but Jones' posted back to back WS/48 of .160/.169. His career avg is .144. This year he is at .075. Maybe it is a health problem in that case no deal but this year could just be a blip. Jones has so much potential and getting hold of his rights/cap hold would free up money in the summer.

newyorker4ever
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1/24/2016  8:07 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

If it were me i would put every name we have besides Melo and KP on the block and see what kind of offers we could get for them. Yes i'd even put DW and my boy Lance out there even though i'd hate to see either go especially Lance. We have to remember that we're still in a rebuild and there's a very good chance that we lose guys like DW in the off season so i'm not sure i'd turn down a 1st round pick for him which we would absolutely get for him. We have no picks in this draft so it sure would be nice to be involved in this draft and get another nice young piece to keep building our future with. The only one besides Melo and KP that it would be really hard for me to trade would be Rolo unless we get a crazy good offer which with the way he's been playing i'm sure we'd get some really good offers for but again i'm not sure i'd trade him.

mreinman
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1/24/2016  8:07 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Another call I make is to Houston for a D.Williams/ Terrance Jones swap. I actually hope Houston would call the Knicks so they'd be in the driver's seat. Jones is rumored to be on the block. I don't know why though.

D.Will has grown on me and I would keep him if it was a choice between him or AA in the summer. However, if the Knicks could get Jones or Jones + extra I'd be very interested. Jones is having a bad year but he was a good player. He is not as athletic as Williams but he is still very athletic plus he is the better defender, rebounder, shot blk, and shooter.

Why would Houston do it? There desperate to win know and between Harden, Howard, and Williams losing teams would have 2/3 of their team in foul trouble by halftime.

I'll stick with DWil

I can understand why but Jones' posted back to back WS/48 of .160/.169. His career avg is .144. This year he is at .075. Maybe it is a health problem in that case no deal but this year could just be a blip. Jones has so much potential and getting hold of his rights/cap hold would free up money in the summer.

just feel like DWil is on the rise and just getting started. His ability to create and draw fouls is priceless.

Houston players numbers look good because they have been playing and winning (until now) in a very efficient system. When you don't take stupid shots from stupid spots because you are not allowed to then of course you will be forced to be more efficient.

Jones here would suck

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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1/24/2016  8:08 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

If it were me i would put every name we have besides Melo and KP on the block and see what kind of offers we could get for them. Yes i'd even put DW and my boy Lance out there even though i'd hate to see either go especially Lance. We have to remember that we're still in a rebuild and there's a very good chance that we lose guys like DW in the off season so i'm not sure i'd turn down a 1st round pick for him which we would absolutely get for him. We have no picks in this draft so it sure would be nice to be involved in this draft and get another nice young piece to keep building our future with. The only one besides Melo and KP that it would be really hard for me to trade would be Rolo unless we get a crazy good offer which with the way he's been playing i'm sure we'd get some really good offers for but again i'm not sure i'd trade him.

why would we get 1st rounder for dwil if he is a FA?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
yellowboy90
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1/24/2016  8:27 PM
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Another call I make is to Houston for a D.Williams/ Terrance Jones swap. I actually hope Houston would call the Knicks so they'd be in the driver's seat. Jones is rumored to be on the block. I don't know why though.

D.Will has grown on me and I would keep him if it was a choice between him or AA in the summer. However, if the Knicks could get Jones or Jones + extra I'd be very interested. Jones is having a bad year but he was a good player. He is not as athletic as Williams but he is still very athletic plus he is the better defender, rebounder, shot blk, and shooter.

Why would Houston do it? There desperate to win know and between Harden, Howard, and Williams losing teams would have 2/3 of their team in foul trouble by halftime.

I'll stick with DWil

I can understand why but Jones' posted back to back WS/48 of .160/.169. His career avg is .144. This year he is at .075. Maybe it is a health problem in that case no deal but this year could just be a blip. Jones has so much potential and getting hold of his rights/cap hold would free up money in the summer.

just feel like DWil is on the rise and just getting started. His ability to create and draw fouls is priceless.

Houston players numbers look good because they have been playing and winning (until now) in a very efficient system. When you don't take stupid shots from stupid spots because you are not allowed to then of course you will be forced to be more efficient.

Jones here would suck

I think Jones would succeed here because he's so the same things as D.Will it better(minus explosive dunks). You hate this Offense but it was trending upward to a top 10 rtg.. It's a gamble but so is giving Williams money. His contract situation makes it almost necessary to trade him away if the Knicks want to go big game hunting in FA.

yellowboy90
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1/24/2016  8:32 PM
mreinman wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

If it were me i would put every name we have besides Melo and KP on the block and see what kind of offers we could get for them. Yes i'd even put DW and my boy Lance out there even though i'd hate to see either go especially Lance. We have to remember that we're still in a rebuild and there's a very good chance that we lose guys like DW in the off season so i'm not sure i'd turn down a 1st round pick for him which we would absolutely get for him. We have no picks in this draft so it sure would be nice to be involved in this draft and get another nice young piece to keep building our future with. The only one besides Melo and KP that it would be really hard for me to trade would be Rolo unless we get a crazy good offer which with the way he's been playing i'm sure we'd get some really good offers for but again i'm not sure i'd trade him.

why would we get 1st rounder for dwil if he is a FA?


win now teams. AA pulled in Barton, Thomas, Claver?, and a protected number 1 last year.
nyknickzingis
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1/24/2016  8:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/24/2016  8:41 PM
Even if his values rises, I trust DWill to realize that he's got a home now. He's moved around, had many coaches and systems. Phil has identified a role for him, one that he can better and better at. All of Phil's great teams have had that ballhandling big forward come in. Lamar Odom for the Lakers. Kukoc for those Bulls. He can be in that role, and is given the freedom to do things in the Triangle and this team that he wouldn't in other situations.

If some idiot gives Williams 10 million per, you let him walk. However I think GM's and executives are weary of Williams. He has a track record. While his numbers and impact look good in NY, many won't see beyond his past. I would be surprised if Williams got contract offers in excess of 32 million/4 years. That's the absolute most I see him getting and even that's a stretch. I think 28 million over 4 years, or 22/3 keeps Williams in NY. Question is whether he is worth that investment. The way he has fit in and the way he has played, hard to argue against that. He's only 25 and has so much talent, you think that if he can add a 3 point shot, and keep working on his mental approach to the game, he can peak at 26-27 years old and be a heck of a 6th man.

On the other hand, Afflalo, I can't see get much more than the 8 million a year he is making. He's showing why. He's good on some nights, but not a star or a reliable 2nd or 3rd option. I think at best he gets 20 million/2 years. I think we can keep him at 20/2 or 24/3. I'd stick with a shorter contract because of age.

If say Williams takes 7 million of capspace and Afflalo 10, we still have enough left over to add a quality stater, or sign 2 quality players for the bench. Our biggest weakness is that we don't have players that can sustain a level once starters go out and we're too heavily realiant on old starters like Melo, Afflalo and Calderon. Some depth will go a long way for this team. And I really believe that there's only one way to getting back to the very top, that's draft picks and young players like Porzingis, Williams and Grant improving. We're getting almost nothing from Grant this year (Aside from 2 big games, there hasn't been much). KP's still a foul machine and needs a post game. DWill has to work on his 3 point shot. If we can get these 3 to work on their weaknesses over the summer and come back next season better, that's major value added without even making a change.

If this team had 2 more solid (Not even good or great) guards to work with, I honestly think we'd be top 4 in the East right now. We'd be about 4 wins better which put us at 26-20, and a 45-47 wins type of team. With a young KP and Grant still able to improve. I take this entire team plus 2 quality guards added with capspace next season and trust that they can do far better. If they don't, then I move Melo for longterm assets. It's all about getting to the top, and you won't get to the bottom spending 25 million a year on Batum or DeRozan caliber players.

newyorker4ever
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1/24/2016  8:54 PM
mreinman wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

If it were me i would put every name we have besides Melo and KP on the block and see what kind of offers we could get for them. Yes i'd even put DW and my boy Lance out there even though i'd hate to see either go especially Lance. We have to remember that we're still in a rebuild and there's a very good chance that we lose guys like DW in the off season so i'm not sure i'd turn down a 1st round pick for him which we would absolutely get for him. We have no picks in this draft so it sure would be nice to be involved in this draft and get another nice young piece to keep building our future with. The only one besides Melo and KP that it would be really hard for me to trade would be Rolo unless we get a crazy good offer which with the way he's been playing i'm sure we'd get some really good offers for but again i'm not sure i'd trade him.

why would we get 1st rounder for dwil if he is a FA?

Because teams see him as a piece that could help them win this year or see him as the missing piece to get them deep in the playoffs or to make a championship run and he's actually not gonna be a free agent cause he has a opt out so who's to say he'll use it or that the team we trade him to couldn't re-sign him to a new contract. All sorts of things could happen but players that are in the final year of deals have been traded before for draft picks. Teams want to win now and if they feel there's a player that can help them win now then they'll do whatever to get that player.

mreinman
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1/24/2016  8:58 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
mreinman wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

If it were me i would put every name we have besides Melo and KP on the block and see what kind of offers we could get for them. Yes i'd even put DW and my boy Lance out there even though i'd hate to see either go especially Lance. We have to remember that we're still in a rebuild and there's a very good chance that we lose guys like DW in the off season so i'm not sure i'd turn down a 1st round pick for him which we would absolutely get for him. We have no picks in this draft so it sure would be nice to be involved in this draft and get another nice young piece to keep building our future with. The only one besides Melo and KP that it would be really hard for me to trade would be Rolo unless we get a crazy good offer which with the way he's been playing i'm sure we'd get some really good offers for but again i'm not sure i'd trade him.

why would we get 1st rounder for dwil if he is a FA?

Because teams see him as a piece that could help them win this year or see him as the missing piece to get them deep in the playoffs or to make a championship run and he's actually not gonna be a free agent cause he has a opt out so who's to say he'll use it or that the team we trade him to couldn't re-sign him to a new contract. All sorts of things could happen but players that are in the final year of deals have been traded before for draft picks. Teams want to win now and if they feel there's a player that can help them win now then they'll do whatever to get that player.

maybe ... I guess anything is possible but I don't see it. I don't think that he is a missing piece (rental) for a playoff team.

He is rising and learning but he is fragile and not there yet. I would like to keep him and have phil convince him that this system is perfect for him and that is why he is succeeding here while he was a bust everywhere else.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
newyorker4ever
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1/24/2016  8:59 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Even if his values rises, I trust DWill to realize that he's got a home now. He's moved around, had many coaches and systems. Phil has identified a role for him, one that he can better and better at. All of Phil's great teams have had that ballhandling big forward come in. Lamar Odom for the Lakers. Kukoc for those Bulls. He can be in that role, and is given the freedom to do things in the Triangle and this team that he wouldn't in other situations.

If some idiot gives Williams 10 million per, you let him walk. However I think GM's and executives are weary of Williams. He has a track record. While his numbers and impact look good in NY, many won't see beyond his past. I would be surprised if Williams got contract offers in excess of 32 million/4 years. That's the absolute most I see him getting and even that's a stretch. I think 28 million over 4 years, or 22/3 keeps Williams in NY. Question is whether he is worth that investment. The way he has fit in and the way he has played, hard to argue against that. He's only 25 and has so much talent, you think that if he can add a 3 point shot, and keep working on his mental approach to the game, he can peak at 26-27 years old and be a heck of a 6th man.

On the other hand, Afflalo, I can't see get much more than the 8 million a year he is making. He's showing why. He's good on some nights, but not a star or a reliable 2nd or 3rd option. I think at best he gets 20 million/2 years. I think we can keep him at 20/2 or 24/3. I'd stick with a shorter contract because of age.

If say Williams takes 7 million of capspace and Afflalo 10, we still have enough left over to add a quality stater, or sign 2 quality players for the bench. Our biggest weakness is that we don't have players that can sustain a level once starters go out and we're too heavily realiant on old starters like Melo, Afflalo and Calderon. Some depth will go a long way for this team. And I really believe that there's only one way to getting back to the very top, that's draft picks and young players like Porzingis, Williams and Grant improving. We're getting almost nothing from Grant this year (Aside from 2 big games, there hasn't been much). KP's still a foul machine and needs a post game. DWill has to work on his 3 point shot. If we can get these 3 to work on their weaknesses over the summer and come back next season better, that's major value added without even making a change.

If this team had 2 more solid (Not even good or great) guards to work with, I honestly think we'd be top 4 in the East right now. We'd be about 4 wins better which put us at 26-20, and a 45-47 wins type of team. With a young KP and Grant still able to improve. I take this entire team plus 2 quality guards added with capspace next season and trust that they can do far better. If they don't, then I move Melo for longterm assets. It's all about getting to the top, and you won't get to the bottom spending 25 million a year on Batum or DeRozan caliber players.


So you see DW growing and becoming a great 6th man but you don't think GM's see that?? DW is playing himself into a bigger contract and i can't even get started with how many players got contracts that they weren't worth at the time.
newyorker4ever
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1/24/2016  9:01 PM
mreinman wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
mreinman wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think it is past time to trade AA. I would try to work out a deal with Sacramento.

If it were me i would put every name we have besides Melo and KP on the block and see what kind of offers we could get for them. Yes i'd even put DW and my boy Lance out there even though i'd hate to see either go especially Lance. We have to remember that we're still in a rebuild and there's a very good chance that we lose guys like DW in the off season so i'm not sure i'd turn down a 1st round pick for him which we would absolutely get for him. We have no picks in this draft so it sure would be nice to be involved in this draft and get another nice young piece to keep building our future with. The only one besides Melo and KP that it would be really hard for me to trade would be Rolo unless we get a crazy good offer which with the way he's been playing i'm sure we'd get some really good offers for but again i'm not sure i'd trade him.

why would we get 1st rounder for dwil if he is a FA?

Because teams see him as a piece that could help them win this year or see him as the missing piece to get them deep in the playoffs or to make a championship run and he's actually not gonna be a free agent cause he has a opt out so who's to say he'll use it or that the team we trade him to couldn't re-sign him to a new contract. All sorts of things could happen but players that are in the final year of deals have been traded before for draft picks. Teams want to win now and if they feel there's a player that can help them win now then they'll do whatever to get that player.

maybe ... I guess anything is possible but I don't see it. I don't think that he is a missing piece (rental) for a playoff team.

He is rising and learning but he is fragile and not there yet. I would like to keep him and have phil convince him that this system is perfect for him and that is why he is succeeding here while he was a bust everywhere else.

So if you don't think he's a good piece for a playoff team then why do you want us to keep him?? If he's not someone that could do good things to help us in the playoffs then why should we want him??

Knicks 2016 Cap and all trades/FA ideas

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