Batum does better in WP than in WS. He’s third among all shooting guards in overall Wins Produced this year, behind only Jimmy Butler and James Harden. On a per-minute basis he’s third in WP48 behind Butler and Manu Ginobilli. He consistently does well in WP year after year. He’s a boxscore-stuffer.

He is a very solid rebounder for a SG/SF. He’s pulling down 6.7 boards per 36 this year, and he has had nice TRB% numbers his whole career. He’d be the best rebounding guard on this team by a comfortable margin. The Knicks are not a good defensive rebounding team, and the frontcourt of Lopez-KP-Melo seems locked in, so a guard who can rebound would be a nice thing to have.

He is the kind of player who does not have any one stand out skill, doesn’t have the one mindblowing stat that makes you go “wow,” but who has a very well-rounded game with few weaknesses. He scores efficiently– career .568 TS%. He’s not a great 3-point shooter, but he’s good– career .363 3PT%. He’s a good defensive player– at 6’8″ he’s long for a two-guard but he is not too slow to guard some of the quicker slashing two-guards in the league. He’s a good passer and a willing passer– has been averaging over 5 assists per game the last three seasons. He gets to the line and is a good free throw shooter.

Batum’s tepid WS48 this season is largely a byproduct of being on a mediocre team. His TS% is way up this season, rebounds are up, assists are up, usage is way up, turnovers are the same, blocks are the same, steals are the same. Last year he was on a 51-win team, while this year he is on a mediocre team that will probably finish below .500. He is actually playing better this year since moving to SG, regardless of what his WS48 says.

To me it does not matter if he puts up the crazy scoring numbers he was doing earlier because i liked him last year(bad shooting yr) and the years before that. He is a fit and we know what he is when surrounded by a good group of player.

It would be awesome to get Batun to me because he is like an older better all around version of Khris Middleton.

yellowboy90 wrote:An observation about Batum's WS/48
http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-2016-01-12/#comment-519712

Batum does better in WP than in WS. He’s third among all shooting guards in overall Wins Produced this year, behind only Jimmy Butler and James Harden. On a per-minute basis he’s third in WP48 behind Butler and Manu Ginobilli. He consistently does well in WP year after year. He’s a boxscore-stuffer.

He is a very solid rebounder for a SG/SF. He’s pulling down 6.7 boards per 36 this year, and he has had nice TRB% numbers his whole career. He’d be the best rebounding guard on this team by a comfortable margin. The Knicks are not a good defensive rebounding team, and the frontcourt of Lopez-KP-Melo seems locked in, so a guard who can rebound would be a nice thing to have.

He is the kind of player who does not have any one stand out skill, doesn’t have the one mindblowing stat that makes you go “wow,” but who has a very well-rounded game with few weaknesses. He scores efficiently– career .568 TS%. He’s not a great 3-point shooter, but he’s good– career .363 3PT%. He’s a good defensive player– at 6’8″ he’s long for a two-guard but he is not too slow to guard some of the quicker slashing two-guards in the league. He’s a good passer and a willing passer– has been averaging over 5 assists per game the last three seasons. He gets to the line and is a good free throw shooter.

Batum’s tepid WS48 this season is largely a byproduct of being on a mediocre team. His TS% is way up this season, rebounds are up, assists are up, usage is way up, turnovers are the same, blocks are the same, steals are the same. Last year he was on a 51-win team, while this year he is on a mediocre team that will probably finish below .500. He is actually playing better this year since moving to SG, regardless of what his WS48 says.

To me it does not matter if he puts up the crazy scoring numbers he was doing earlier because i liked him last year(bad shooting yr) and the years before that. He is a fit and we know what he is when surrounded by a good group of player.

It would be awesome to get Batun to me because he is like an older better all around version of Khris Middleton.

Good post. I agree.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/11/calderon-gets-back-in-good-grace-of-knicks-fan-for-a-night/

Calderon had made a cryptic remark following Friday’s one-point loss after his 3-pointer bounced off the rim.

“Everybody’s going to want me out of New York because I missed the shot,” Calderon said.

When asked about Sunday’s ovation, Calderon said, “It was for Melo. I [was] just behind him. I said thank you anyway.”

Are the fans starting to appreciate him more?

“This is me,” Calderon said. “As a player and a person, I try to do my best every night. Some nights it works better than others. I know guys want a 30-point point guard, but that’s not me.”

Calderon admitted the San Antonio loss was “in the back of my mind.” His season has gone a lot better after a terrible November. Some fans have been slow to catch on. His role is different in a triangle offense. It’s moving the ball, making cuts, orchestrating proper spacing. And he’s doing the right things and staying healthy — unlike last season’s lingering calf issues.

“Jose’s doing his job,” Fisher said. “I definitely can relate to his experiences being in a system as the lead guard who isn’t asked to do the same things point guards on other are asked to do and it may look like you’re not as capable at doing things on certain nights. That’s frustrating because you know you’re asked to do more if asked. The equalizer is winning. That’s what shuts people up. If you lead you’re team to victory and score 2 points that ultimately works the best.”

Jose sounds kinda salty! Yet also sounds like he's trying to be a grown man and handle the position he's been given.

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I already read the article, I posted it. You pontificate about the Knicks, but you've been a fan for like 10 minutes. Who sounds dumber?

I don't know where you get the "10 minutes" from.

But it doesn't even take ONE minute or much intelligence at all to see that Krzyzewski is contradicting himself.

He admits he doesn't know the Triangle . . . but still feels he's entitled to criticize it.

That's nonsense no matter who you are or how smart you are . . .

I didn't jump into the thread you started about whether Triangle fans were welcome here, nor did I give you a proper welcome, so welcome Malcolm.

That out of the way, I have to say: I'm not sure I get you yet and what exactly you love about "Triangle" as the article puts it. Maybe you can use this thread as an opportunity to expound on the opinions of its advocates versus its detractors? The way you talk about it, it's obvious you aren't a fan simply from a Tex Winter Xs-and-Os perspective. Or not just the focus on the fundamentals and rudimentary drills... you speak of the culture... Triangle culture as refined by Phil Jackson, as described in the article as Jackson's more people-focused spiritual approach melded with Winter's systematic approach?

I felt like I learned something about the Triangle from this article... so would love to hear you expound on what you read here instead of focusing on "haters"... especially when this is a forum full of die-hards who root for the laundry no matter what pattern it runs around the court.

Who would these "haters" be?

Coach K? Jeffy Civic? You? ;) Whomever... I don't really think it's a helpful word, hence the quotes... I'd just rather get Malcolm to talk about what gets him so excited about "Triangle culture" and what he agreed or disagreed with his fellow devotees in the article versus calling Coach K a knucklehead. Because like you said, I've never heard of anyone becoming a fan of the Knicks explicitly because of a coach's system, it is weird to me. But the way folks talk about it in the article... just trying to get some more meat out of Malcolm on this.

(I don't know what you think of the Triangle... but I sure know Malcolm loves it and I want to know more specifically why.)

DrAlphaeus wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I already read the article, I posted it. You pontificate about the Knicks, but you've been a fan for like 10 minutes. Who sounds dumber?

I don't know where you get the "10 minutes" from.

But it doesn't even take ONE minute or much intelligence at all to see that Krzyzewski is contradicting himself.

He admits he doesn't know the Triangle . . . but still feels he's entitled to criticize it.

That's nonsense no matter who you are or how smart you are . . .

I didn't jump into the thread you started about whether Triangle fans were welcome here, nor did I give you a proper welcome, so welcome Malcolm.

That out of the way, I have to say: I'm not sure I get you yet and what exactly you love about "Triangle" as the article puts it. Maybe you can use this thread as an opportunity to expound on the opinions of its advocates versus its detractors? The way you talk about it, it's obvious you aren't a fan simply from a Tex Winter Xs-and-Os perspective. Or not just the focus on the fundamentals and rudimentary drills... you speak of the culture... Triangle culture as refined by Phil Jackson, as described in the article as Jackson's more people-focused spiritual approach melded with Winter's systematic approach?

I felt like I learned something about the Triangle from this article... so would love to hear you expound on what you read here instead of focusing on "haters"... especially when this is a forum full of die-hards who root for the laundry no matter what pattern it runs around the court.

Who would these "haters" be?

Coach K? Jeffy Civic? You? ;) Whomever... I don't really think it's a helpful word, hence the quotes... I'd just rather get Malcolm to talk about what gets him so excited about "Triangle culture" and what he agreed or disagreed with his fellow devotees in the article versus calling Coach K a knucklehead. Because like you said, I've never heard of anyone becoming a fan of the Knicks explicitly because of a coach's system, it is weird to me. But the way folks talk about it in the article... just trying to get some more meat out of Malcolm on this.

Found it strange that you glossed over the disrespect for coach K, and framed the recipient of his criticism as "haters". Please explain my "hate".

DrAlphaeus wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I already read the article, I posted it. You pontificate about the Knicks, but you've been a fan for like 10 minutes. Who sounds dumber?

I don't know where you get the "10 minutes" from.

But it doesn't even take ONE minute or much intelligence at all to see that Krzyzewski is contradicting himself.

He admits he doesn't know the Triangle . . . but still feels he's entitled to criticize it.

That's nonsense no matter who you are or how smart you are . . .

I didn't jump into the thread you started about whether Triangle fans were welcome here, nor did I give you a proper welcome, so welcome Malcolm.

That out of the way, I have to say: I'm not sure I get you yet and what exactly you love about "Triangle" as the article puts it. Maybe you can use this thread as an opportunity to expound on the opinions of its advocates versus its detractors? The way you talk about it, it's obvious you aren't a fan simply from a Tex Winter Xs-and-Os perspective. Or not just the focus on the fundamentals and rudimentary drills... you speak of the culture... Triangle culture as refined by Phil Jackson, as described in the article as Jackson's more people-focused spiritual approach melded with Winter's systematic approach?

I felt like I learned something about the Triangle from this article... so would love to hear you expound on what you read here instead of focusing on "haters"... especially when this is a forum full of die-hards who root for the laundry no matter what pattern it runs around the court.

Who would these "haters" be?

Coach K? Jeffy Civic? You? ;) Whomever... I don't really think it's a helpful word, hence the quotes... I'd just rather get Malcolm to talk about what gets him so excited about "Triangle culture" and what he agreed or disagreed with his fellow devotees in the article versus calling Coach K a knucklehead. Because like you said, I've never heard of anyone becoming a fan of the Knicks explicitly because of a coach's system, it is weird to me. But the way folks talk about it in the article... just trying to get some more meat out of Malcolm on this.

Found it strange that you glossed over the disrespect for coach K, and framed the recipient of his criticism as "haters". Please explain my "hate".

I don't think you hate, that was a bad joke with I tried to parenthetically clarify. The disrespect of Coach K was my point, one of the detractors. The question was for Malcolm, springing off of your comment. Easy.

Which comment was that?

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I already read the article, I posted it. You pontificate about the Knicks, but you've been a fan for like 10 minutes. Who sounds dumber?

I don't know where you get the "10 minutes" from.

But it doesn't even take ONE minute or much intelligence at all to see that Krzyzewski is contradicting himself.

He admits he doesn't know the Triangle . . . but still feels he's entitled to criticize it.

That's nonsense no matter who you are or how smart you are . . .

I didn't jump into the thread you started about whether Triangle fans were welcome here, nor did I give you a proper welcome, so welcome Malcolm.

That out of the way, I have to say: I'm not sure I get you yet and what exactly you love about "Triangle" as the article puts it. Maybe you can use this thread as an opportunity to expound on the opinions of its advocates versus its detractors? The way you talk about it, it's obvious you aren't a fan simply from a Tex Winter Xs-and-Os perspective. Or not just the focus on the fundamentals and rudimentary drills... you speak of the culture... Triangle culture as refined by Phil Jackson, as described in the article as Jackson's more people-focused spiritual approach melded with Winter's systematic approach?

I felt like I learned something about the Triangle from this article... so would love to hear you expound on what you read here instead of focusing on "haters"... especially when this is a forum full of die-hards who root for the laundry no matter what pattern it runs around the court.

Who would these "haters" be?

Coach K? Jeffy Civic? You? ;) Whomever... I don't really think it's a helpful word, hence the quotes... I'd just rather get Malcolm to talk about what gets him so excited about "Triangle culture" and what he agreed or disagreed with his fellow devotees in the article versus calling Coach K a knucklehead. Because like you said, I've never heard of anyone becoming a fan of the Knicks explicitly because of a coach's system, it is weird to me. But the way folks talk about it in the article... just trying to get some more meat out of Malcolm on this.

Found it strange that you glossed over the disrespect for coach K, and framed the recipient of his criticism as "haters". Please explain my "hate".

I don't think you hate, that was a bad joke with I tried to parenthetically clarify. The disrespect of Coach K was my point, one of the detractors. The question was for Malcolm, springing off of your comment. Easy.

Which comment was that?

Your comment about it being weird about this guy following the Knicks because of the Triangle. I guess I'm trying to be too cute or something, how did I get this misunderstood?

DrAlphaeus wrote:The haters thing was referring to what nyknickzingas said. But jeez, it's really not that serious.

Just asking. Im trying to fathom what made Malcolm choose a system over a team. I guess its like going to a restaurant because of the chef. Hard to have the same bond with a team that you would have with a restaurant, unless you are Eddy Curry.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

Agree about Batum. He'd be great, but he doesn't have the star power or the offense needed from the lead guard spot to really carry an offense the way a Kobe or Michael could. He just doesn't have that scorers touch. He could be a great Pippen-esque player. I wish for the following:

PG: Jerian to mature
SG: Batum
SF: Durant
PF: Melo
C: Rolo (for Defense)

6th man: KP
7th man: Arron A. (A big guard, and in the triangle could bring the ball up)
8th man: Derrick Williams
9th man: a signed PG

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This came out before the NBA draft - we talked about it a bunch then.

But it is a great article.

Fisher has done a good job teaching a complicated system and Phil has done a good job bringing in guys who were able to learn it.

Ah, I missed that conversation.

I can try to dig up the thread... but honestly back then it was a lot of people saying that Melo would never get it, trade Melo, the system is outdated, we need to spread the floor and shoot more threes, etc. Much was made of the fact that those diagrams don't even have a three point line in them! Which is funny to think about.

I think it's interesting to re-visit it now that Phil has hand picked a roster (with obvious limitations in terms of who we were able to bring in) and the roster has about two-three months under its belt playing together and playing the system.

It's the kind of system where I get excited thinking about how good and comfortable guys like Melo and KP and Rolo and Afflalo and even DWill and Lance will look in it by April and then by next season and beyond. I think it's the sort of system that you can keep improving - I don't think anyone would claim they'd mastered it yet. They're finding new wrinkles in it every game.

I'm drooling over Grant, KP, Melo, Rolo, and some obvious upgrades added to that list and the comfort level that a season or 2 will add to that core.

I keep pushing this but imagine a SG in Batum (passes a ton) and a 29 year old Westbrook.

I keep envisioning a team of Conley and Batum in the backcourt - I don't think it'd be possible, but I think that'd be the ideal backcourt for our frontcourt.

But looking at the reality of the cap and Lance and Langston up for new deals and Afflalo and DWill able to opt out... cap room could get scarce this coming off-season.

both Conley and Batum are up for contracts THIS year, so that's why I keep suggesting Batum and Westbrook and the impeding cap increases when they hit the market.

As for Afflalo and DWill and their respective opt outs, this is a win-win for NY. They opt-in and they are fairly manageable salaries for this upcoming year and the Knicks still have around $19M to spend. They opt out and you gain $8M and $5M respectively to spend on other not bad options: Horford, Bazemore, Maurice Harkless, Allen Crabbe, etc.

Not sure if Frank has any inside info or just speculating - but he had a tidbit about Conley in his latest article:

The presence of both Porzingis and Carmelo Anthony, not to mention Phil Jackson’s 11 rings and the bright lights of MSG, will make the Knicks players in free agency this summer. Memphis point guard Mike Conley Jr. can see that the Grizzlies’ run is nearing its expiration date and that joining Porzingis and Anthony makes perfect sense.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/isola-nets-big-knicks-attractive-team-article-1.2495074

GustavBahler wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:The haters thing was referring to what nyknickzingas said. But jeez, it's really not that serious.

Just asking. Im trying to fathom what made Malcolm choose a system over a team. I guess its like going to a restaurant because of the chef. Hard to have the same bond with a team that you would have with a restaurant, unless you are Eddy Curry.

That's just cold, Gustav.

IMHO, Since Dr. A's managed to fugazy this whole conversation down a rabbit hole, i believe the whole Triangular sensitivity is a reaction to all the anti-Phil, "he's a not-with-it, game's-passed-him-by" sentiments people were regurgitating somewhat before, and definitely during and after last year's tank job. So even a Coach K is not safe from the shrapnel of Knicks (Phil birthed) success.

Now that things have turned around for this franchise, I guess it's payback time.

Triangles, squares, circles, WGAF? Just keep winning!