blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:Good job Briggs for putting yourself out there with this thread. Looks like you will be eating your words for sometime. But I'm sure your come back will say, it's only one game. What a fan! You will save face by simply saying you jumped the gun on this one. Grant is actually a keeper. He has the PG size Phil Jackson likes. And he can play both guard positions. This team needs Grant more than you think.

Jees I'm not rooting against my own team and it is only 1 game. I think he could've used developmental time and I think we will see real quick he still does. I hope not but well see

I think Grant had a good start of the year, has shown flashes of being a good player. I think he lost a bit of confidence, and he's shown signs of getting over that and realizing he belongs in the NBA.

I only caught part of the game last night, but I thought the best play he made was at the end of the game, Celtics needing to foul and rather than play 'conservative' & dumb and allow them to foul him, he found D Williams under the basket with a fantastic, court long pass for a dunk.

We have not had that kind of play made by a PG since pretty much I've been rooting for the Knicks since Hubie Brown.

Grant played well in summer league.....he started declining when the coach wasn't giving him consistent minutes. Grant is the type that needs minutes to increase his own confidence and he wasn't getting that. We all knew his shooting needs work but he has so many other tools in his tool box that we could use. KP came in with confidence because the coaches gave him a starter role from the beginning. ....

Grant was playing very poorly... how long do you stick with a rookie PG that is hurting your team for the sake of development? And lets be honest.. KP and Grant are not the same level on the totem pole. KP was drafted to be a cornerstone player. Grant was just adding to the talent pool. There are different levels of commitment there by the team no?

That being said Grant is one of my fav players. I was so pumped when we drafted him and never stopped believing he will be a good NBA player. The only question was how much time it would take. Its one game.. a BIG game, but still only one. With no Melo we really need guys to step up tonight... hopefully Grant follows this with a big game.

I don't expect him to break more than 10-15 minutes a night until he can hit some shots on a consistent basis and run the Triangle better. He's starting to slowly figure out how to balance running the Triangle and running a screen/roll. In general, when you have a player like Grant who can beat opposing defenders off the dribble, carve a defense up, sort of like DWill, you don't want him just spotting up or giving the ball up so easily. You want him to be aggressive off the dribble.

It's all about balance. He's finding it, but I don't expect him to play well every night. Jose's still the main PG on the team. What we need is slowly, Grant to become more reliable such that Fisher can trust him out there longer.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:Good job Briggs for putting yourself out there with this thread. Looks like you will be eating your words for sometime. But I'm sure your come back will say, it's only one game. What a fan! You will save face by simply saying you jumped the gun on this one. Grant is actually a keeper. He has the PG size Phil Jackson likes. And he can play both guard positions. This team needs Grant more than you think.

Jees I'm not rooting against my own team and it is only 1 game. I think he could've used developmental time and I think we will see real quick he still does. I hope not but well see

I think Grant had a good start of the year, has shown flashes of being a good player. I think he lost a bit of confidence, and he's shown signs of getting over that and realizing he belongs in the NBA.

I only caught part of the game last night, but I thought the best play he made was at the end of the game, Celtics needing to foul and rather than play 'conservative' & dumb and allow them to foul him, he found D Williams under the basket with a fantastic, court long pass for a dunk.

We have not had that kind of play made by a PG since pretty much I've been rooting for the Knicks since Hubie Brown.

Grant played well in summer league.....he started declining when the coach wasn't giving him consistent minutes. Grant is the type that needs minutes to increase his own confidence and he wasn't getting that. We all knew his shooting needs work but he has so many other tools in his tool box that we could use. KP came in with confidence because the coaches gave him a starter role from the beginning. ....

chicken and egg

Grant was playing very poorly... how long do you stick with a rookie PG that is hurting your team for the sake of development? And lets be honest.. KP and Grant are not the same level on the totem pole. KP was drafted to be a cornerstone player. Grant was just adding to the talent pool. There are different levels of commitment there by the team no?

That being said Grant is one of my fav players. I was so pumped when we drafted him and never stopped believing he will be a good NBA player. The only question was how much time it would take. Its one game.. a BIG game, but still only one. With no Melo we really need guys to step up tonight... hopefully Grant follows this with a big game.

I think Fisher started to turn the corner as a coach - there was a quote from Grant that said Fisher had just recently started to talk with Grant and try to help him understand the game, system, situations, etc.

I think Fisher maybe- this is conjecture- was a bit too hands off, zen-like like Phil was. What this group needs is, to be honest, a lot of hand holding & explaining & teaching- even the vets.

I think maybe Phil had a conversation with Fisher - or perhaps that article that was critical of the Knicks execution got the staff to take a second look at their approach. Maybe it was simply a combination of a lot of things - players starting to get it, coaches figuring out which players got it, where they needed help, etc.

I know I like what I see.

For about a decade, I would have traded franchises- players, coaches, front office, draft picks & owners- with just about any other out there. Now, outside of missing some picks and having an owner that could go turn this great **** upside at a whim- there are maybe only a few out there that I would trade with- maybe San Antonio & G State.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:Good job Briggs for putting yourself out there with this thread. Looks like you will be eating your words for sometime. But I'm sure your come back will say, it's only one game. What a fan! You will save face by simply saying you jumped the gun on this one. Grant is actually a keeper. He has the PG size Phil Jackson likes. And he can play both guard positions. This team needs Grant more than you think.

Jees I'm not rooting against my own team and it is only 1 game. I think he could've used developmental time and I think we will see real quick he still does. I hope not but well see

I think Grant had a good start of the year, has shown flashes of being a good player. I think he lost a bit of confidence, and he's shown signs of getting over that and realizing he belongs in the NBA.

I only caught part of the game last night, but I thought the best play he made was at the end of the game, Celtics needing to foul and rather than play 'conservative' & dumb and allow them to foul him, he found D Williams under the basket with a fantastic, court long pass for a dunk.

We have not had that kind of play made by a PG since pretty much I've been rooting for the Knicks since Hubie Brown.

Grant played well in summer league.....he started declining when the coach wasn't giving him consistent minutes. Grant is the type that needs minutes to increase his own confidence and he wasn't getting that. We all knew his shooting needs work but he has so many other tools in his tool box that we could use. KP came in with confidence because the coaches gave him a starter role from the beginning. ....

chicken and egg

Grant was playing very poorly... how long do you stick with a rookie PG that is hurting your team for the sake of development? And lets be honest.. KP and Grant are not the same level on the totem pole. KP was drafted to be a cornerstone player. Grant was just adding to the talent pool. There are different levels of commitment there by the team no?

That being said Grant is one of my fav players. I was so pumped when we drafted him and never stopped believing he will be a good NBA player. The only question was how much time it would take. Its one game.. a BIG game, but still only one. With no Melo we really need guys to step up tonight... hopefully Grant follows this with a big game.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:Good job Briggs for putting yourself out there with this thread. Looks like you will be eating your words for sometime. But I'm sure your come back will say, it's only one game. What a fan! You will save face by simply saying you jumped the gun on this one. Grant is actually a keeper. He has the PG size Phil Jackson likes. And he can play both guard positions. This team needs Grant more than you think.

Jees I'm not rooting against my own team and it is only 1 game. I think he could've used developmental time and I think we will see real quick he still does. I hope not but well see

I think Grant had a good start of the year, has shown flashes of being a good player. I think he lost a bit of confidence, and he's shown signs of getting over that and realizing he belongs in the NBA.

I only caught part of the game last night, but I thought the best play he made was at the end of the game, Celtics needing to foul and rather than play 'conservative' & dumb and allow them to foul him, he found D Williams under the basket with a fantastic, court long pass for a dunk.

We have not had that kind of play made by a PG since pretty much I've been rooting for the Knicks since Hubie Brown.

Grant played well in summer league.....he started declining when the coach wasn't giving him consistent minutes. Grant is the type that needs minutes to increase his own confidence and he wasn't getting that. We all knew his shooting needs work but he has so many other tools in his tool box that we could use. KP came in with confidence because the coaches gave him a starter role from the beginning. ....

chicken and egg

Grant was playing very poorly... how long do you stick with a rookie PG that is hurting your team for the sake of development? And lets be honest.. KP and Grant are not the same level on the totem pole. KP was drafted to be a cornerstone player. Grant was just adding to the talent pool. There are different levels of commitment there by the team no?

That being said Grant is one of my fav players. I was so pumped when we drafted him and never stopped believing he will be a good NBA player. The only question was how much time it would take. Its one game.. a BIG game, but still only one. With no Melo we really need guys to step up tonight... hopefully Grant follows this with a big game.

I think Fisher started to turn the corner as a coach - there was a quote from Grant that said Fisher had just recently started to talk with Grant and try to help him understand the game, system, situations, etc.

I think Fisher maybe- this is conjecture- was a bit too hands off, zen-like like Phil was. What this group needs is, to be honest, a lot of hand holding & explaining & teaching- even the vets.

I think maybe Phil had a conversation with Fisher - or perhaps that article that was critical of the Knicks execution got the staff to take a second look at their approach. Maybe it was simply a combination of a lot of things - players starting to get it, coaches figuring out which players got it, where they needed help, etc.

I know I like what I see.

For about a decade, I would have traded franchises- players, coaches, front office, draft picks & owners- with just about any other out there. Now, outside of missing some picks and having an owner that could go turn this great **** upside at a whim- there are maybe only a few out there that I would trade with- maybe San Antonio & G State.

the situation was pretty weird last season. I would have struggled with the the set-up. Everyone is a year wiser with the system and structure... that stuff takes time especially when there was a complete absence of anything decent here for so long. The closest to that that there's been was Larry "let's cash paychecks" Brown and Donnie "let's take a nap" Walsh

blkexec wrote:I think what everbody is saying is true.....even 1969 who talked about Grants inconsistent minutes, which can mess with a persons confidence.....especially during an important transition from college to nba. Just my personal belief but giving KP consistent minutes. ....especially as a starter in stills a jolt of confidence inside you. Now we are reaping the benefits of his play due to those consistent minutes. Grant and KP both showed great confidence from summer league and even during the beginning of the season, which is why 85% of knick fans in this forum said Grant will be the starter midway through the season over Calderon. Some even said by November. So what changes? Inconsistent minutes and several DNPs and Grant trying to transform his game to the triangle. But the one content was Fishers starting lineup. That has never changed. Which was good for KPS development.

All rookies make mistakes. If I punish my child for every single mistake, it would take him longer to develop self confidence. Thats the case with Grant. His development is tied to Fishers bench rotation and minutes distribution and knowing when to hold Grants hand and guide him to play like the player Phil drafted.

Yes there is a pecking order and KP was a high draft pick.....but im just talking about giving Grant consistent minutes will result in performances like this.....AS LONG AS.....he stays true to his game and not try to be something hes not. That's the only thing I worry about Grant. Aside from the minutes fisher gave him or didn't give him. ....Grant is also at fault for trying to be a, what he perceives to be, a triangle PG, because he's not there yet. He needs to play like he did in college and in summer league as an attacking PG that's always looking to make aggressive plays. His energy and 4 yr college wisdom is what he should be using moving forward.

Im a big Grant fan and believer, but Im also ready to accept it may take him until next year to "get this." Hopefully last night was a breakthough. Even if it doesnt turn out to be so it was a nice look into the future. I think pecking order isnt fair as KP earned his minutes and Grant made it tough for Fisher to keep him out there.

That being said they certainly seem to be on the same page now.

mreinman wrote:So everyone is now sold on grant because he did ok last night? I am far from sold but of course I am rooting strongly for the kid.

No, my issue is with the lack of patience these boards sometimes have with rookies- it's far too early to judge grant. Last night was one game, just as his bad game that started this thread was just one game. I do value BRIGGS scouting and opinions, but he can also be one of the most extreme catastrophizers- just wish he'd take a breath or two before he starts some of his threads, especially when it comes to rookies.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:So everyone is now sold on grant because he did ok last night? I am far from sold but of course I am rooting strongly for the kid.

Agreed. He played very well and hopefully he can build on it. But the offense still looks very shaky with him running the point.

Not many have mentioned that Grant's great run at the end of the game came with Calderon on the floor next to him - Calderon was still directing spacing for the team, which Grant is not great at yet.

Hopefully this was a building block game for Grant. I don't expect him to go out and average 14ppg 7apg from now on or anything. There will be ups and downs - but this was a good confidence builder, I hope.

That right there is what I like, using Jose as a 2 guard to help guide grant... Jose is slow defending pg's but I think he can hold his own vs 2 guards. Plus Jose might look for his shot more in that role with grant on the floor.